Luffy and Natsu vs Meliodas and Escanor

[Morning]

Fight commences as close to noon as Escanor's most recent battle.

[Nik Hasta]

EDIT: Wait, I'm stupid. I got Escanor confused with Estarossa.

I'm backing the Sins here. Meliodas is pretty monstrous with his most recent powerup and Escanor is just... broken as hell.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Yeah, Meliodas and Escanor outstat Luffy and Natsu pretty heavily and have a bigger back of abilities in general.

The Sins take it pretty easily.

[Iron_Twister]

I'm gonna back the Sins as well. Especially with Escanor at the strongest he's shown in his most current fight....Cause Dude is Broken as Nik said.

[master of read]

escanor doesn't hate luffy and natsu.

he just pities them.

[Morning]

Hmm... see I was thinking that now that we've seen more of what Escanor can do and what it takes to hurt him, he's a little less broken. We can peg his heat attacks at around Natsu's level in magic, which bodes well for Natsu straight up eating his little sun.

[Iron_Twister]

I think the thing is...This isn't just magical fire Escanor uses...It's a mini-sun that can outright do some serious damage without any proper defenses and counters against it...And even those are tough to come by since such things don't even exist at the moment. How can Natsu eat it before Escanor just decides he'll blow it up point blank? And how can they counter Escanor's insane strength and durability? The guy took double the damage from his own attack and all that did was make him impressed it actually hurts...But of course, he wasn't shocked, it's his own attack after all.

[Morning]

I think the thing is...This isn't just magical fire Escanor uses...It's a mini-sun that can outright do some serious damage without any proper defenses and counters against it...And even those are tough to come by since such things don't even exist at the moment. How can Natsu eat it before Escanor just decides he'll blow it up point blank? And how can they counter Escanor's insane strength and durability? The guy took double the damage from his own attack and all that did was make him impressed it actually hurts...But of course, he wasn't shocked, it's his own attack after all.

I mean, saying it's a mini-sun sounds nice and all, but what feats does it have? Evaporating a lake like Natsu did? And it's made of magic. I seriously see no reason why Natsu couldn't gas up by eating it or why Escanor could affect Natsu with it at all, given the nature and similar scale of their magics.

But that still leaves Escanor's physical stats, which I have a hard time pinning down. To my knowledge, his best durability feat is tanking that cutting attack that produced a shockwave that lopped the tops off some hills within a few mile radius. He was, however, bloodied by normal punches by Estarossa. Meanwhile, Natsu has one-shot-mountain-sized-giant punches. How does that work out? And what are Escanor's best attack power and speed feats? Cutting through Galan? Catching up with Estarossa in mid-air? Blitzing Estarossa at 11:30? I'm not sure what puts them explicitly above Natsu's high-end ballpark.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I mean, saying it's a mini-sun sounds nice and all, but what feats does it have? Evaporating a lake like Natsu did? And it's made of magic. I seriously see no reason why Natsu couldn't gas up by eating it or why Escanor could affect Natsu with it at all, given the nature and similar scale of their magics.

Natsu isn't unaffected by fire magic, certainly not by magic on Escanor's level. And the lake Escanor evaporates is quite a bit larger than the one Natsu evaporates, I'd also say that Escanor produces a much more potent version of that feat.

But that still leaves Escanor's physical stats, which I have a hard time pinning down. To my knowledge, his best durability feat is tanking that cutting attack that produced a shockwave that lopped the tops off some hills within a few mile radius.

You're missing some context. It's a hit from a Galan, who casually wipes out entire towns with pure raw strength alone. He's easily over-powered Diane and Meliodas (the weakest version of Meliodas we've seen in the series granted, but this is still the same guy that bisected a moutain by swinging a stick at it). And he's duked it out evenly with Ban after having half his strength stolen. In this instant he's used his magic to buff himself up beyond his normal levels and is hitting Escanor with all he's got.

Escanor gets minor cut but is otherwise unperturbed. That alone is way above what we've seen from either Luffy or Natsu.

He was, however, bloodied by normal punches by Estarossa. Meanwhile, Natsu has one-shot-mountain-sized-giant punches. How does that work out?

Estarossa is significantly stronger than Galan and Fraudrin. Simple as that.

And what are Escanor's best attack power and speed feats? Cutting through Galan? Catching up with Estarossa in mid-air? Blitzing Estarossa at 11:30? I'm not sure what puts them explicitly above Natsu's high-end ballpark.

In terms of power I'd say it's when he oblierates half of the huge boulder Diane created at Vaizel while at roughly half power, he could destroyed the whole thing but he was aiming at Gloxinia and Dolor who were on the boulder's edge.

And that he's constantly shown to be at the top tier of a world that has people like Meliodas, Ban, King, Galan, Dolor and Gloxinia running around puts him comfortably above Natsu and Luffy.

But if you think Escanor's feats aren't concrete enough for that, then we have Meliodas who can blitz them both easily enough since he did the same to Galan, who zipped many miles away and back to dodge Merlin's teleportation.

[Morning]

Natsu isn't unaffected by fire magic, certainly not by magic on Escanor's level. And the lake Escanor evaporates is quite a bit larger than the one Natsu evaporates, I'd also say that Escanor produces a much more potent version of that feat.

I... actually thought Natsu's lake looks bigger. I just wasn't going to split hairs. It's the same lake as we've previously seen behind the guild. http://imgur.com/a/rnSgl

It's a hit from a Galan, who casually wipes out entire towns with pure raw strength alone.

I don't remember that feat. I remember Galan wiping out a chunk of Camelot with a casual hit; but Camelot as a whole was still standing (the 10 later conquered it). If you're thinking of something else, it's worth noting that "entire towns" wouldn't be very impressive in either Fairy Tail or Nanatsu no Tazai anymore.

(the weakest version of Meliodas we've seen in the series granted, but this is still the same guy that bisected a moutain by swinging a stick at it)

That was a hill.
And I know who Galan is. Galan is a guy whose named attack cut through ban and straight through the landscape off into the horizon. That would be a solid feat in FT power-wise. But Natsu fought a guy who did a visibly better version of the same feat and killed him with one named punch.

And he's duked it out evenly with Ban after having half his strength stolen.

How is that a feat of anything? If, say, a toddler stole half my physical power, I would fight fairly evenly with said toddler.

But if you think Escanor's feats aren't concrete enough for that, then we have Meliodas who can blitz them both easily enough since he did the same to Galan, who zipped many miles away and back to dodge Merlin's teleportation.

Galan presumably jumped away, right? After all, he calculated how long it took him to get there in number of steps. So this feat is that he jumped 4(?) miles away in the time between Merlin activating her power and when it actually went off? How much time does that actually give him? The only thing we know about the delay between activation and teleportation is that it's faster than Meliodas (at the time) could react to. So is Galan. I don't see how we can surmise much more than that.

[Siriel]

Fight commences as close to noon as Escanor's most recent battle.

Soo, this isn't the Escanor who evaporated the lake, or who was generally unbothered by Galan's best shot after Galan doubled his physical strength.

This is the Escanor that Estarossa, who could take the above without notable problems, could not see move and was completely paralyzed with fear at the mere sight of.

But if you think Escanor's feats aren't concrete enough for that, then we have Meliodas who can blitz them both easily enough since he did the same to Galan, who zipped many miles away and back to dodge Merlin's teleportation.

The Escanor in this thread is considerably faster than Meliodas; Estarossa flat-out could not see his strike.

[master of read]

jack gallagher approves of escanor

[Dark Soul # 7]

I... actually thought Natsu's lake looks bigger. I just wasn't going to split hairs. It's the same lake as we've previously seen behind the guild. http://imgur.com/a/rnSgl

Oh, didn't notice it was that lake. I'd say they roughly even in size, but yeah that's splitting hairs a bit.

I don't remember that feat. I remember Galan wiping out a chunk of Camelot with a casual hit; but Camelot as a whole was still standing (the 10 later conquered it). If you're thinking of something else, it's worth noting that "entire towns" wouldn't be very impressive in either Fairy Tail or Nanatsu no Tazai anymore.

Camelot is a kingdom in the series, not a town. And Galan destroyed said town by raising his arm. Not by actually hitting anybody. The other instance was when he was chasing Ban, Elaine and Jericho. That time he was a half strength and still skewered an entire town with one attack. So Galan has destroyed towns with single attacks that were either so casual he wasn't actually fighting and when he was at half power. Escanor completely no sold a strike from Galan that wasn't only a serious attack meant to kill, it was also buffed up to double the power. Again, that is durability on a level that's much higher than what we've seen from anyone in Fairy Tail.

And town-busting is still fairly impressive in Fairy Tail. At least in terms of tanking hits from attacks. In his fight with Jacob, Natsu was bothered but not hurt by Jacob's blows. Jacob would probably just break his hands on Escanor's skin.

And I know who Galan is. Galan is a guy whose named attack cut through ban and straight through the landscape off into the horizon. That would be a solid feat in FT power-wise. But Natsu fought a guy who did a visibly better version of the same feat and killed him with one named punch.

True. Natsu blowing up the war god with one attack is impressive and that blow would probably get a reaction from Escanor. But we've seen people weaker than Escanor destroy beings that have better durability feat an similar size to the war god.

Galan presumably jumped away, right? After all, he calculated how long it took him to get there in number of steps. So this feat is that he jumped 4(?) miles away in the time between Merlin activating her power and when it actually went off? How much time does that actually give him? The only thing we know about the delay between activation and teleportation is that it's faster than Meliodas (at the time) could react to. So is Galan. I don't see how we can surmise much more than that.

I actually always presume that Galan runs away in that instance. Mainly because we see him jumping away later and it looks different from what he's doing when he's dodging Merlin's teleportation. The feat is that he runs away several miles to avoid Merlin's teleportation, which is pretty instant and has a large radius, and then runs back. All in a instant and without anybody seeing him move. Then Meliodas gets his full powers back and blitzes the shit out of Galan for the better part of ten seconds. That is more than enough to outspeed Luffy and Natsu.

Recently however he also reacted to Monspeet using his flame bird attack, which crossed several miles in a few moments the last time we saw it, at close range.

But yeah, Escanor and Estarossa are prestented as being even faster and stronger than the rest and so far they're living up to that.

[Morning]

Camelot is a kingdom in the series, not a town. And Galan destroyed said town by raising his arm.

Let's just put this to bed. Here is the page after he "destroyed the town." As you can see, there is still more town. All he did was take out a chunk of it. http://imgur.com/a/4h4Dc

And "raising his arm" was an attack. True, it was a casual attack, but an attack nonetheless. It's not like every time he waves hello it does several blocks of collateral damage. Most high end FT characters are on the city-busting side of things now. Some take out mountains. Some take out islands. One of them recently rearranged a country. The ease of Galan's feat is impressive, but the actual damage done isn't anything to write home about.

I actually always presume that Galan runs away in that instance.

The translation I read actually says "jumping." http://imgur.com/a/5T6Yy And, again, we know that jumping is his preferred means of long-distance travel.

we've seen people weaker than Escanor destroy beings that have better durability feat an similar size to the war god.

Several characters in NnT are described as being mountain sized, but none actually are that I can recall. The war god actually is. His head is in the clouds. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Recently however he also reacted to Monspeet using his flame bird attack, which crossed several miles in a few moments the last time we saw it, at close range.

He didn't react to it at all. He tanked it.

One more thing:

Estarossa is significantly stronger than Galan and Fraudrin. Simple as that.

Based on what? What did Estarossa ever actually do, feat-wise? He bloodied Escanor's face with punches, but for all we know Galan or Fraudrin could have done the same. And he managed to not die against Escanor for a while, thanks mainly to his healing factor and full counter. What great feats does he have that makes Escanor blitzing him impressive? What would stop, say, Natsu, from slaughtering him as easily as 11:30 Escanor did?

[Nik Hasta]

I'll freely admit that I stopped reading Fairy Tail a few years ago so I'm not that up on what Natsu can do. His fire magic, with the... stadium melting and such, right? Is around the level Escanor puts out ambiently so that's not going to factor in too much. That said, him eating Escanor's magic is a good strategy. That could provide a big powerup for him.

The problem is Escanor's stupidly high durability. Powered up Galan hit him with everything he had an barely even dented his paintwork. Estarossa countered his own attacks back at him and he was like "Oh, I felt pain. That's only to be expected with my own attacks," it didn't actually damage him all that much that we can discern. I don't think we've seen him actually be hurt and both of those occasions weren't actually at the height of his power. Suffice to say, the guy is mad difficult to hurt.

If Meliodas takes on Natsu, which he should be capable of doing with his recent powerup barring Natsu having gotten way stronger over the years, then Luffy is going to have a rough time beating Escanor. Boundman might be able to do it, maybe. But that requires transformation time and that time wasted only makes Escanor stronger.

Luffy is stupid strong these days though, just to note that.

I mean, pre timeskip Luffy was punching people to other islands, punching out kaiju, helping punch through tidal waves and flipping over chunks of a town by punching someone through the bedrock from below. He then fought Lucci couldn't breach his Tekkai without going to Gear Two and Three. He then ran into a Pacifista and it took him and the rest of the Strawhats together with their strongest techniques in unison to bring it down.

Post-timeskip, he's able to one shot Pacifista at Gear Two with complete impunity. That's a ridiculous step up. Plus, Haki meaning his damage can't be ignored or whatever.

Donflamingo saw Post-timeskip Luffy using Gear Two as a significant annoyance but ultimately not very threatening.

Boundman wrecked his ass and punched him so hard that they flipped over a good chunk of a city.

Escanor is strong, perhaps ridiculously so, but we've not anything to suggest that he can full out ignore that level of attack.

I'm still backing the sins, unless Natsu's got some crazy stuff in the can that I don't know about, as they seem to have uniformly higher base stats.