Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[Wiccan]

Please feel free to call me a dick.

Lol, aren't we more on the same side when it comes to this? xD

[MaximoffTrash]

I'm not trying to defend HOM. You said that you reply that it's bad every time just like you do with the rumor/theory for WandaVision, and my point was that those were different situations.

It's not about lack of interest, it's about acting like your lack of interest makes it impossible and therefore the other party doesn't have a point. Maybe I'm overreacting but that's what I feel happens in this thread sometimes. This isn't even mainly directed at you, actually(is it bad if I name names? I'm genuinely not trying to antagonize anyone and I feel that comes off strong, but at the same time being vague sounds sahdy... Either way you weren't the only one I quoted when I first started saying this).

Well, I cannot say for others here but I am kinda overexposed to other media when it comes to WandaVision news, theories, etc.
It's more of a built-in reaction at this point, just like when I deal with yet another HoM claim(varies from simple suggestion to full-on "this is Wanda at her finest").
Hell I even feel like a B-1 Droid from Star Wars for expressing my separatist(of franchises) sentiment way too often.
When I feel drowned by the samey old claims, I just respond the usual way.

No worries, again I am not genuinely at most fans other than the pretender type(AKA the type who make wild claims about what kind of character Wanda is based just on HoM and probably her wiki page.) Don't feel sorry for misdirecting either, I pretty much have the same stance anyway.

[Cruelrain]

i think we're going to get content every week till january 15

[GenericUsername]

Mephisto is more relevant than the other dude people are talking about and more likely I don't even get why this is a debate.

Not really. I really think they can bring in Billy and Tommy without the mess of Mephisto and Master Pandemonium.

I'm not overly fond of what Byrne did to the boys, or Vision or Wanda. Because it was built on hate and discrimination of that relationship and family. Then had to be cleaned up later.

For a time, Wanda recovered from it just well. Vision did not. Because he spent so much time without his memories and emotions.

Plus I don't honestly think movies/tv are gonna be as messy as comics. And do the whole Mephisto soul babies transplanted into teens born to other people thing. I think they'll simple be aged up by time warping.

[GenericUsername]

I literally had no idea who Chthon was until this thread so yeah really. He's a more marketable villain that being said he's also movie material. Hmm

But that's based on your own exposure. Think of all the things general audiences did not know about until the MCU introduced them. They didn't know most of the Avengers, who Thanos, Loki or Ultron were.

Comics and especially Avengers were not popular to general audience before the movies. It wasn't like the X-Men who had been highly marketed to general audiences since the 90s.

And in this Phase they are going even more obscure with characters like Shang-Chi and Eternals. So I don't think the MCU is gonna be limited to marketability. Or they'd have never have tried GotG.

Hell they'd never have tried Iron Man. Because at one time, neither he and Cap were really known to general audiences. And sold so poorly in comics that their titles were outright cancelled.

And Wanda herself was never highly marketed. Before the MCU she had very little merchandise ever. Like two bad action figures, a couple dolls and some statues. And at the time only one solo. For her entire 50 years. She wasn't known by many. So if the MCU did not take chances, we wouldn't even be here talking about WandaVision

[GenericUsername]

HoM being bad is an opinion, Wanda disappearing for 7 years is a straight fact. I can certainly tolerate the fact some people like it, I just don't think their endless demand to make HoM the real deal in MCU is helpful to the character.
I also didn't deny that possiblity, but again that doesn't make him a qualified villain for this show.

The speculation when it comes to HoM, Mutants, Mephisto are also pretty much the same, if I keep getting sent\ by this kind of notion, I will pretty respond the same, it is very simple.
For discussion, wouldn't you consider the possiblity that stuff you said is spammed everywhere else and someone simply doesn't find it interesting, just plain annoying?
Again, if I express lack of interest, am I shutting it down? Continue this discussion with interested parties by all means, just disregard my post as pulling an "I am out" card.

I think the only reason some want it is because they want things to happen that only concern other characters and not Wanda. Without realizing those things could happen independently of HoM. And some, like the creation of mutants did happen without it.

And I'm not sure why people expect a friendly reaction to this story being brought up in Wanda's appreciation thread. Being that the story is outright sexist and fridged her for years.

We aren't under any obligation to greet that with open arms.

[GenericUsername]

No that's not what they did. Since forever(not literally, but essentially), mutants were born. People were born with the X Gene as a part of who they were. After No More Mutants, that stopped happening. After what Wanda/Hope/The Phoenix did, that started happening again like it had before. They didn't "randomly turn" anyone and there's nothing questionable about it.



How many times are you gonna keep saying that? Some people like the idea of him being in WandaVision and/or the MCU for whatever reason(mine being the connection with the twins, that has never really been explored in the comics and has nothing to do with Spider-Man or whatever) and will be interested in the theories/rumors. That's not gonna change.

As much as I like in my own thread, thank you very much.

The twins can be done and with far less mess without him.

[GenericUsername]

What's (mainly?) stated is that no more mutants were being born and after that they were. The full logistics were never explained as far as I know, but there's nothing implying that people who didn't have it just suddenly did. The X-Gene is something that you're either born with or not, it's already "dormant" until puberty for most mutants anyway(which would make it hard to know the difference).



I know that it's because you don't like him. I ask why in the sense of "Why don't you see that some people still find it interesting and repeating the same things won't just make them suddenly shut up?"

About the potential and everything: There's the fact that their souls still come from him, and those souls are what Billy and Tommy currently have(/are?). The fact that they have demonic souls could be major if someone wanted to. It is also the most likely source of their powers, if like Wanda they're not mutants(and even if they are, it could still be an additional one, like Chthon is with Wanda -which creates an interesting similarity between her and her kids). And if Mephisto came for the original twins, why not their current incarnations?

It's only not interesting because Marvel doesn't care. Some writers probably don't even know about it. They have never cared to answer all the questions about the twins' existence, nor are they very interested in actually exploring their connection to Wanda in general. So that's why the main villain and plot of the show heavily involving them and this somewhat obscure part of their story is something I would love.

I know not everyone here cares about that though, and that's fine. But it gets annoying when it's just the same condescending answers again and again whenever the subject is brought up(though I will say that sometimes it's brought up when it doesn't have to lol).

It's not an answer, it wasn't a question. It was a discussion. That I was having with someone else. No I don't like Mephisto or HoM. And I'm not gonna come any closer to liking the times that Wanda and Vision were trashed as characters by Byrne and Bendis because you disagree.

The boys can be done easily without all that mess and should be. Because Mephisto soul babies transplanted into already born teens is probably too messy for the movies anyway.

While infamous, HoM was never important to Wanda's character development. It's actually gone in reverse since then.

And Mephisto was never a central villain for her. And did makes everyone's lives and families a mess. Wanda and Vision's family, Pete and MJ, Stephen and Clea. It's not just a flippant joke, it's stuff Marvel actually did. They made Mephisto a joke.

Now they could do the same in the movie-verse. And I have the right to hate that then as much as I do now, in this very thread.

[GenericUsername]

I'm not trying to defend HOM. You said that you reply that it's bad every time just like you do with the rumor/theory for WandaVision, and my point was that those were different situations.

It's not about lack of interest, it's about acting like your lack of interest makes it impossible and therefore the other party doesn't have a point. Maybe I'm overreacting but that's what I feel happens in this thread sometimes. This isn't even mainly directed at you, actually(is it bad if I name names? I'm genuinely not trying to antagonize anyone and I feel that comes off strong, but at the same time being vague sounds shady... Either way you weren't the only one I quoted when I first started saying this).

You can name names. But it's not gonna change how I feel about those stories. My hatred is for those stories. Not for people. And I'm still gonna hate them with a passion no matter what people I don't know on the internet think of me.

[Wiccan]

As much as I like in my own thread, thank you very much.

LOL It's not like Wanda wasn't gonna have a thread here if you hadn't made it. You were just the first to rush to be OP(which afaik actually means nothing). Not even like there was a whole intro like when CJ made it.

It's not an answer, it wasn't a question. It was a discussion. That I was having with someone else. No I don't like Mephisto or HoM. And I'm not gonna come any closer to liking the times that Wanda and Vision were trashed as characters by Byrne and Bendis because you disagree.

The boys can be done easily without all that mess and should be. Because Mephisto soul babies transplanted into already born teens is probably too messy for the movies anyway.

While infamous, HoM was never important to Wanda's character development. It's actually gone in reverse since then.

And Mephisto was never a central villain for her. And did makes everyone's lives and families a mess. Wanda and Vision's family, Pete and MJ, Stephen and Clea. It's not just a flippant joke, it's stuff Marvel actually did. They made Mephisto a joke.

Now they could do the same in the movie-verse. And I have the right to hate that then as much as I do now, in this very thread.

Answer, reply... I was kinda using it interchangeably without thinking about it, cause in my first language we use the same word for both.

I know they can be done in different ways. I didn't even come up with the idea that Mephisto had to be in the show, I just reacted positively to the rumor that he is lol. I know you want Chthon, which is indeed a central villain for her. I just feel like there hasn't been any indication that he's gonna be used unfortunately. The other rumor/theory going around is that it's Nightmare. And then there being no villain and it's just Wanda messing with reality and having to be stopped. I just prefer Mephisto over those.

You can name names. But it's not gonna change how I feel about those stories. My hatred is for those stories. Not for people. And I'm still gonna hate them with a passion no matter what people I don't know on the internet think of me.

Ok. I don't hate Byrne's stuff in itself, even though I know it was damaging. I'm not thinking anything negatively of you hating these stories. Just how you come up about it and other Wanda-related discussion sometimes.

[GenericUsername]

LOL It's not like Wanda wasn't gonna have a thread here if you hadn't made it. You were just the first to rush to be OP(which afaik actually means nothing). Not even like there was a whole intro like when CJ made it.



Answer, reply... I was kinda using it interchangeably without thinking about it, cause in my first language we use the same word for both.

I know they can be done in different ways. I didn't even come up with the idea that Mephisto had to be in the show, I just reacted positively to the rumor that he is lol. I know you want Chthon, which is indeed a central villain for her. I just feel like there hasn't been any indication that he's gonna be used unfortunately. The other rumor/theory going around is that it's Nightmare. And then there being no villain and it's just Wanda messing with reality and having to be stopped. I just prefer Mephisto over those.



Ok. I don't hate Byrne's stuff in itself, even though I know it was damaging. I'm not thinking anything negatively of you hating these stories. Just how you come up about it and other Wanda-related discussion sometimes.

It's not meant to be rude to you, just the stories. I do resent them greatly. And for good reason.

And the thread comment is because I feel it's wild that people can come in here and bring up what they know are controversial stories, but we aren't allowed to be upset by that?

I'm not a person that walks on eggshells. I never have been. My opinions are always strong. And after 15 years of dealing with antagonism about HoM from certain fans, I'd like to see it dead and buried. Because I see it as being in the way of Wanda's progression and really her existence. And likely if the same is done to her in movies/tv, she'll be gone for good.

I understand preferring Mephisto over Wanda being the villain. My hatred for him isn't hatred for people who want him, or want Billy and Tommy (I want Billy and Tommy). I'm just tired of reliving Wanda being trashed. It's exhausting and painful.

And also, no one can be CJ. Ever. I'm not gonna try to copy that. That's his signature.

[Wiccan]

It's not meant to be rude to you, just the stories. I do resent them greatly. And for good reason.

And the thread comment is because I feel it's wild that people can come in here and bring up what they know are controversial stories, but we aren't allowed to be upset by that?

I'm not a person that walks on eggshells. I never have been. My opinions are always strong. And after 15 years of dealing with antagonism about HoM from certain fans, I'd like to see it dead and buried. Because I see it as being in the way of Wanda's progression and really her existence. And likely if the same is done to her in movies/tv, she'll be gone for good.

I understand preferring Mephisto over Wanda being the villain. My hatred for him isn't hatred for people who want him, or want Billy and Tommy (I want Billy and Tommy). I'm just tired of reliving Wanda being trashed. It's exhausting and painful.

And also, no one can be CJ. Ever. I'm not gonna try to copy that. That's his signature.

I don't think the whole WCA, white Vision and twins being taken away was a damaging story for Wanda as much as just for Wanda/Vision as a ship, and I didn't think it was really that controversial to bring it up here. I never felt like she was really "thrashed" by any major story besides Disassembled/HOM(well, Remender's UA pissed me off at times but...), though it's not like I've read everything.

My comment about the thread thing is that it felt to me like you were trying to imply some authority over it, which I'd understand a bit if it was a specific discussion started or an elaborated thing but not when just opening a Wanda Appreciation Thread so that we have a place to talk.

Honestly Wanda is not a character that every fan is gonna agree on most things. Some people love Wanda and Vision as a couple and some find it abusive. Some want her to be a mutant some not, a lot want her to be Magneto's daughter, some just the Maximoffs, some Natalya and some other character. Some really want her to interact with character [X] that others think there's no need to. Some think her MCU adaptation is an abomination that shouldn't even be brought up along with the original one and here we are just talking about stuff related to her for pages and pages...

[Albert1981]

Lol, aren't we more on the same side when it comes to this? xD

Oh yeah, and I appreciate the support bro. But I thought this thread was getting really serious and sorta angry lately, so I just wanted to lighten things up with a joke.

[GenericUsername]

I don't think the whole WCA, white Vision and twins being taken away was a damaging story for Wanda as much as just for Wanda/Vision as a ship, and I didn't think it was really that controversial to bring it up here. I never felt like she was really "thrashed" by any major story besides Disassembled/HOM(well, Remender's UA pissed me off at times but...), though it's not like I've read everything.

My comment about the thread thing is that it felt to me like you were trying to imply some authority over it, which I'd understand a bit if it was a specific discussion started or an elaborated thing but not when just opening a Wanda Appreciation Thread so that we have a place to talk.

Honestly Wanda is not a character that every fan is gonna agree on most things. Some people love Wanda and Vision as a couple and some find it abusive. Some want her to be a mutant some not, a lot want her to be Magneto's daughter, some just the Maximoffs, some Natalya and some other character. Some really want her to interact with character [X] that others think there's no need to. Some think her MCU adaptation is an abomination that shouldn't even be brought up along with the original one and here we are just talking about stuff related to her for pages and pages...

I feel it was damaging to her after the fact, not in the moment. Because when Byrne left, they scrambled to fix his mess. But it was the base for what Bendis did, so it ended up eventually being the reason she's not here in comics now. It at the time trashed Vision a whole heck of a lot more.

I feel like Wanda and Vision are much better in movies than in the books. Because the books turned it into something very problematic, and terrible. It it's infancy, it was very good. And in Vision and the Scarlet Witch, Vision was very supportive of Wanda. It's when they wanted to inject drama that they started going off the deep end.

I use to love the link to Magneto. I liked the way that Mantlo figured that out. But then it became a thing. Where the only time Mags or mutants was relative to Wanda's life was when she was abused, manipulated or otherwise mistreated. So I started to loathe the link. I get why some want it. Mags is a major character, X-Men have always been widely marketed so are more familiar. But I'm never gonna agree with it being central to her like some feel. Because it was used very few, and in damaging ways. And after 50 years of her being a mutant, and 30 years of being Mags' kid, I just don't feel it's gonna get any better than that.

Especially with her being treated as a boogey man in the X-books. And I know, there are people that believe that's going somewhere. I have my doubts. And it's also based on how Wanda has been treated for the past 15 years. And especially in the past 8-10 years. She's used in supplemental ways. Never really giving her much development in any real meaningful way. It's more like a tease than anything. And with her not being in solicits going for months on, I just don't see that changing.

Forgot to reply about the thread thing. No I don't have ownership of it or feel that way. Just feel like people don't understand sometimes why we feel so upset over the times Wanda was treated not even just badly, but not even as a character. And understand that it was a very sexist story. And the big time assault we received from X-fans at the time and over the years changed things for us and for the community. Having people come into the thread to say she should be gang raped and killed for Decimation has made us defensive.

[Albert1981]

I feel it was damaging to her after the fact, not in the moment. Because when Byrne left, they scrambled to fix his mess. But it was the base for what Bendis did, so it ended up eventually being the reason she's not here in comics now. It at the time trashed Vision a whole heck of a lot more.

I feel like Wanda and Vision are much better in movies than in the books. Because the books turned it into something very problematic, and terrible. It it's infancy, it was very good. And in Vision and the Scarlet Witch, Vision was very supportive of Wanda. It's when they wanted to inject drama that they started going off the deep end.

I use to love the link to Magneto. I liked the way that Mantlo figured that out. But then it became a thing. Where the only time Mags or mutants was relative to Wanda's life was when she was abused, manipulated or otherwise mistreated. So I started to loathe the link. I get why some want it. Mags is a major character, X-Men have always been widely marketed so are more familiar. But I'm never gonna agree with it being central to her like some feel. Because it was used very few, and in damaging ways. And after 50 years of her being a mutant, and 30 years of being Mags' kid, I just don't feel it's gonna get any better than that.

Especially with her being treated as a boogey man in the X-books. And I know, there are people that believe that's going somewhere. I have my doubts. And it's also based on how Wanda has been treated for the past 15 years. And especially in the past 8-10 years. She's used in supplemental ways. Never really giving her much development in any real meaningful way. It's more like a tease than anything. And with her not being in solicits going for months on, I just don't see that changing.

Forgot to reply about the thread thing. No I don't have ownership of it or feel that way. Just feel like people don't understand sometimes why we feel so upset over the times Wanda was treated not even just badly, but not even as a character. And understand that it was a very sexist story. And the big time assault we received from X-fans at the time and over the years changed things for us and for the community. Having people come into the thread to say she should be gang raped and killed for Decimation has made us defensive.

I do think Vision and Wanda were great pre-1989. Then things went to hell in a handbasket. And they destroyed both characters (and erased valuable time for their twins to grow up). Although I thought conceiving kids through magic, although very creative, was a really dangerous idea. So I kind of understood why Marvel editors instructed Byrne to get rid of them. But it was so horribly done and nothing positive came out of it. And then the kids came into existence later ANYWAY so what was the point? And because of the whole reincarnation bullshit Vision and Wanda have no relationship with them in any meaningful way. Fifteen lost years of pointless drama. I guess the only good thing that came out of it was the Vision mini-series, which is now widely regarded as a classic. But Wanda I believe came out looking worse than Vision when you come right down to it. Nobody questions his hero status. People still want Wanda to be "evil" in the movies. I used to be like you and Cruelrain. I thought the PREMISE of the Pietro-Wanda-Magneto relationship was fascinating. But Magneto ended up doing most of the taking and the twins doing most of the giving. And it has benefited his character MASSIVELY and hurt them at a "commensurate rate" as Vision would say.

I like Vision and Wanda in the movies because they don't have the HUGE baggage the books have. Bettany and Olsen are doing a great job. Wanda has had some awesome moments. I think the relationship has been sort of abusive in the films because Wanda has beaten up and killed Vision in the movies (I guess Marvel Studios is being inspired by the comic book source material). I really didn't like turning Vision into a "gentleman" in his live-action version at first (I thought he belonged more in Remains of the Day than in Captain America: Civil War), but now I just think it's funny so I'm cool with it. Wanda has done some cool shit and that makes me happy. I'm also glad she miraculously lost her accent too. I also like their origin stories thus far. I have no problem using the Infinity Stones to tie Wanda and Vision together. Better than idiotic love triangles.