Wonder Woman - General Discussion

[Guy_McNichts]

'Diana is the greatest warrior in the DC universe. She was trained by the amazons. She understands the mechanics of running better than anyone on this list, which gives her an edge over the competition.'

Like... how? How does being the best warrior in DC translate to knowing the mechanics of running better than the top 3 speedsters? No sense, none whatsoever. No mention of her divine blessings, no swifter than Hermes, just the same garbage that was peddled out as her thing. whatever, this thing was abandoned a while ago, no one talks about it or takes it seriously. Also, this list is very generous with Superman's speed, his is a little bit too high there tbh. Black racer is too low, and so is Cheetah.

I always love the "I have no particular insight, but I'm expected to say something, so here's some rubbish that doesn't mean anything" blurb writers give Diana when they haven't a single clue what to say about her.

It reminds of when Brad Meltzer started his JLA run, he did something like this speed chart thing where he described the Trinity's thoughts on all prospective members. And for every one...Superman had a unique thought, Batman had a unique thought, but Wonder Woman was always, "She agrees with Superman," "She agrees with Batman," or "She's a warrior, so blah-blah."


As for the speed chart itself...I don't care. Flash characters should be fastest I suppose. I don't really get the bollocks Williamson is saying about Diana. For me, more important than her running/flying speed is her reflexes. If her reflexes are sharp enough (and they should be) it won't matter how fast her opponent is.

Oof, forget about that last two panels. Yeah, stuff like that is what got Conner/Palmiotti on my **** list. Diana being besties with Quinn because "they're both girls" has to be the biggest brain dead trend in DC comics.

I'm not a fan of Connor/Palmiotti's Wonder Woman either. That one issue where Harley knocks her out with gas and steals her costume was just......arrgh. Pain.

But in general their Diana always comes across to me like the wet blanket that's only there to contrast the "fun" character they actually want to write.

[Primal Slayer]

I'd put Superman behind Cheetah and put Black Rracer as #4, Cheetah #5

[Gaius]

Eh, that chart doesn't really bother me if I'm being honest. I've said this to Superman fans so I'll be consistent in saying in a universe where the Flash exists, if you're favorite character isn't the Flash than they're not the fastest character.

I always love the "I have no particular insight, but I'm expected to say something, so here's some rubbish that doesn't mean anything" blurb writers give Diana when they haven't a single clue what to say about her.

It reminds of when Brad Meltzer started his JLA run, he did something like this speed chart thing where he described the Trinity's thoughts on all prospective members. And for every one...Superman had a unique thought, Batman had a unique thought, but Wonder Woman was always, "She agrees with Superman," "She agrees with Batman," or "She's a warrior, so blah-blah."

Yeah, there's a scene in his JL run where they're debating on which GL to include she suggests a contest for some reason. Because y'know that's part of her origin.

At least YJ had her suggest adding more women, which would actually be in-character for her.

I'm not a fan of Connor/Palmiotti's Wonder Woman either. That one issue where Harley knocks her out with gas and steals her costume was just......arrgh. Pain.

But in general their Diana always comes across to me like the wet blanket that's only there to contrast the "fun" character they actually want to write.

Yep, their Agent of Peace issue where they "team up" dukes it out for worst modern WW story imo.

[Frontier]

For me...I'm generally not impressed with Dark Crisis or anything leading up to it.

Williamson wrote some Diana appearances in his Flash run where she's only there to get wrecked by Reverse Flash.
Annoying, but so did the rest of the League because getting their asses kicked is all they're good for anymore.

But, for me, the kicker was finding he was responsible for that awful Justice League vs. Suicide Squad mini-series. Late to the party, I know, but at the time, I ignored it because I knew it would be trash and I wouldn't have known who Williamson was. But like I said, I'm browsing through Amazon Archives and discover, "Oh, god, HE wrote that?!"

Honestly, I might've put him on my black list for this alone when it first came out. First the Justice League gets defeated and captured by the Suicide Squad and forced to work for Amanda Waller. Because of course.

Then we get this:

Those last two panels...I almost threw up in my mouth.

And that's not even the climax. Diana and the League (except Batman) proceed to get enslaved by everyone's favorite villain, Max Lord, and have to get defeated & rescued by the Squad a SECOND time.
And it ends with the League telling this group of murderers and thieves how cool they are.

So, yeah. Strike three...to the bin with you Williamson. Stay away from Wonder Woman.

I might be biased because I actually enjoyed JLvsSS but I can't remember anything too egregious that would automatically disqualify Williamson from being able to write Diana, at least anything on par with some of the worst stuff Johns and Waid did with her. And no I don't count her not being immediately hostile to Harley as one of them.

Wait, didn't she completely no-sell Harley in this story ?

'Diana is the greatest warrior in the DC universe. She was trained by the amazons. She understands the mechanics of running better than anyone on this list, which gives her an edge over the competition.'

Like... how? How does being the best warrior in DC translate to knowing the mechanics of running better than the top 3 speedsters? No sense, none whatsoever. No mention of her divine blessings, no swifter than Hermes, just the same garbage that was peddled out as her thing. whatever, this thing was abandoned a while ago, no one talks about it or takes it seriously. Also, this list is very generous with Superman's speed, his is a little bit too high there tbh. Black racer is too low, and so is Cheetah.

Well, she's faster than Shazam who literally has the speed of Hermes...

I mean, none of The Flashes are trained runners compared to the kind of training an Amazon would receive.

Yeah, there's a scene in his JL run where they're debating on which GL to include she suggests a contest for some reason. Because y'know that's part of her origin.

At least YJ had her suggest adding more women, which would actually be in-character for her.

I think it's more because it's an Amazon thing.

[Perseus]

Well, she's faster than Shazam who literally has the speed of Hermes...

I mean, none of The Flashes are trained runners compared to the kind of training an Amazon would receive.

Good? like she should be, that's not my point at all. I'm more or less shocked (not really) that the description he gave was something completely off for her reasoning of being fast. she's not fast because she's a warrior, she fast for other obvious reasons.

The Flashes...whose sole power is basically just running really good don't train in running? sure....

[Primal Slayer]

WW was gifted the Speed of Hermes so she should be as fast if not faster than Shazam, that's just a given.

The Flashes...whose sole power is basically just running really good don't train in running? sure....

Is that really surprising? When you are gifted a power....you dont necessarily train like you should. Superman is the strongest and just because he punches hard doesnt mean he has a technique

[Perseus]

WW was gifted the Speed of Hermes so she should be as fast if not faster than Shazam, that's just a given.



Is that really surprising? When you are gifted a power....you dont necessarily train like you should. Superman is the strongest and just because he punches hard doesnt mean he has a technique

The Flashes constantly testing their powers to gain new abilities and improve; like time travel, molecule control, the speed formula etc... isn't training? All of which requires acute knowledge of what they can do and pushing their limits i.e. running really really fast... still isn't training?

And like Superman does know how to throw a good punch, he's not clueless, he's just not as skilled as say Diana. But he does also train... where is all this 'heroes don't actually practice' nonsense coming from?

Just because we don't see it every other issue doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Writers can and have alluded to/mentioned/showed us these things all the time.

[Primal Slayer]

The Flashes constantly testing their powers to gain new abilities and improve; like time travel, molecule control, the speed formula etc... isn't training? All of which requires acute knowledge of what they can do and pushing their limits i.e. running really really fast... still isn't training?

And like Superman does know how to throw a good punch, he's not clueless, he's just not as skilled as say Diana. But he does also train... where is all this 'heroes don't actually practice' nonsense coming from?

Just because we don't see it every other issue doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Writers can and have alluded to/mentioned/showed us these things all the time.

Training his powers isnt exactly the same proper footwork, stance, etc...

All the complaining we have in here, we're really mad that someone says that Diana does something that others dont? lol

[WonderLight789]

Training his powers isnt exactly the same proper footwork, stance, etc...

All the complaining we have in here, we're really mad that someone says that Diana does something that others dont? lol

That's all they do with WW. All talking but no showing. WW is not even a great fighter from a technical point of view. Because she hasn't been showing that much level of skills behind her moves for years. She just punches things very hard. You don't see any particular technique behind her moves. You don't see her body reading her opponents, using pressure points etc like real martial artists characters do constantly. She even has a sword with her all the time now, and in most battles it looks like she didn't train with a sword one day of her life.

[Robanker]

I'd put Superman behind Cheetah and put Black Rracer as #4, Cheetah #5

That seems reasonable to me.

[Perseus]

Training his powers isnt exactly the same proper footwork, stance, etc...

All the complaining we have in here, we're really mad that someone says that Diana does something that others dont? lol

We are talking about Flashes and the ability to run good LMAO... I just can't.

[Perseus]

Why should we even care about her running technique away!? She can FLY!!!!!

Why doesn't she get the treatment of she's fast but even faster in the air?

[Koriand'r]

Back from seeing "The Woman King" this is probably a given, but every Wonder Woman fan needs to see this movie.

The Amazons in it have lassos as their first weapon, use them in complicated rope tricks like Diana and wear them on their belts into battle. They even wear uniforms of red (okay burgundy) tops and star patterned skirts (it's really a black and white African print but it could look like stars if you squint super hard or have cataracts).

I was sort of ambivalent about going and only went because a friend wanted to go, but I ended up being thoroughly entertained. The action scenes are awesome and surprisingly violent, it's really cool! GO SEE THIS MOVIE!

[Frontier]

That's all they do with WW. All talking but no showing. WW is not even a great fighter from a technical point of view. Because she hasn't been showing that much level of skills behind her moves for years. She just punches things very hard. You don't see any particular technique behind her moves. You don't see her body reading her opponents, using pressure points etc like real martial artists characters do constantly. She even has a sword with her all the time now, and in most battles it looks like she didn't train with a sword one day of her life.

I think it's a "depends on the run" kind of thing.

[Gaius]

I might be biased because I actually enjoyed JLvsSS but I can't remember anything too egregious that would automatically disqualify Williamson from being able to write Diana, at least anything on par with some of the worst stuff Johns and Waid did with her. And no I don't count her not being immediately hostile to Harley as one of them.

That he's never written anything that's risen above "okay, I guess" is what disqualifies him for me.

I doubt he'd be interested in a WW solo run. Like most of the golden boys, he'll only write as part of some JL run they do where they can write her as a generic as they can and maybe a short story in some anniversary.

I'd be slightly more forgiving of that stupid scene with Harley if there wasn't already this annoying trend of pairing the two off.