Falcon and The Winter Soldier

[TooFlyToFail]

I'd rather Hydra stay dead, and we get some new guys pulling crap. Secret Empire, it's your time to shine!

But Secret Empire is Hydra...

[Adam Allen]

The GRC and Flag Smasher plotline seems likely to be suffering from the reshoots caused not by Covid’s impact on production, but by how they reportedly removed an entire virus based plotline from the story because ti was too close to home.

What *is* in the show, as of the last episode, is basically a situation where the GRC is determined to expel 20 million “unwanted” immigrants who moved across borders during the Blip to respond to manpower and infrastructure shortages caused by the Blip (as supply lines, rather than the gross amount of resources, is actually behind shortages and surpluses - Thanos was wrong.)

Apparently, Karli and the people in the camps represent the reverse of Aunt May’s situation when she came back - they weren’t Blipped out and are basically being deprived of the jobs, homes, and sanctuary they had because the “original owners” came back, and the GRC seems to be about restoring things to the previous status quo, at the expense fo these refugees.

The fact there’s 20 million of them is likely the biggest issue - that’s basically an entire country’s worth of refugees, with all the exploitation, deprivation, and despair that entails. The GRC is apparently failing to provide for them or listen to their desires to not leave their current nations - and apparently is failing hard enough at the distribution of supplies that even GRC officials worry about the camps not being supplied enough as it already is, while Karlie and co. apparently *are* helping by hijacking supplies for them.

The GRC is effectively killing people via gross negligence and apathy caused by a desire to return to “normal” regardless of how ill-advised that might be; the one “Senator” character they haven’t named yet especially seems to personify the idea that the “haves” are forcing the “have nots” to bear the burden of restoring the status quo.

You can tell they didn’t film any clear exposition scenes, though, and are likely patching together a handful of reshot scenes or dialogue with older footage.

No, yeah -- I got all that. My point was just that it's all rather vague. Like, what is the GRC even, exactly? A multi-national corporation, I guess? Well, where did it come from, to out of the blue be this monolithic, institutional entity that apparently spans the globe? I mean, isn't it supposed to be like six months, since everybody erased by the blip came back? This massive organization sprang into being out of the blue, that quickly?

More importantly, how is it that they have more authority and especially more responsibility for how all the refugees in every different country are being dealt with? Like, whether we're talking the USA or China or Germany or Slovakia, it's not any of those countries governments who are dealing with the people displaced when everybody came back, but the GRC instead? I mean, not to get too much into the weeds of it, but from any kind of realistic estimation, given the lack of any narrative detail on the matter, how would the people who have been living and working in the US for five years not be citizens with legal rights, regardless of who just blipped back into existence?

Meh, all of that is just my nitpicking though, really. I think you must be right about the reshoots removing planned plotlines, because my overall point was just that I think the show has been vague enough about the GRC that it makes the Flag Smasher's motivations likewise vague, which unfortunately makes them more difficult to sympathize with.

[inisideguy]

Ok this is another issue I have with this show. Whats coming across on the screen to me as far as budget looks less than the average Agents of Shield Episode.

[inisideguy]

No, yeah -- I got all that. My point was just that it's all rather vague. Like, what is the GRC even, exactly? A multi-national corporation, I guess? Well, where did it come from, to out of the blue be this monolithic, institutional entity that apparently spans the globe? I mean, isn't it supposed to be like six months, since everybody erased by the blip came back? This massive organization sprang into being out of the blue, that quickly?

More importantly, how is it that they have more authority and especially more responsibility for how all the refugees in every different country are being dealt with? Like, whether we're talking the USA or China or Germany or Slovakia, it's not any of those countries governments who are dealing with the people displaced when everybody came back, but the GRC instead? I mean, not to get too much into the weeds of it, but from any kind of realistic estimation, given the lack of any narrative detail on the matter, how would the people who have been living and working in the US for five years not be citizens with legal rights, regardless of who just blipped back into existence?







Meh, all of that is just my nitpicking though, really. I think you must be right about the reshoots removing planned plotlines, because my overall point was just that I think the show has been vague enough about the GRC that it makes the Flag Smasher's motivations likewise vague, which unfortunately makes them more difficult to sympathize with.

Yea I have been saying this all along. They are using this plot with the GRC and the flagsmashers to move this plot along, but in reality this is a character story. I love the story thats going on with Bucky and Sam, and Walker, and others. But I honestly don't care about whatever the heck the flagsmashers are, or the GRC. Its why I can't give a total thumbs up to this show. I don't care about these people and they haven't given me any reason to. Its all to vague. It just seems like a plot device to put the good guys into who are busy dealing with things like the meaning of Captain America.

[Frontier]

I'd rather Hydra stay dead, and we get some new guys pulling crap. Secret Empire, it's your time to shine!

I'd say bring back AIM before we do Hydra again.

[CosmiComic]

I'd say bring back AIM before we do Hydra again.

Yeah, they've only been in IM3. We need to see them again!

[Besouro]

But Secret Empire is Hydra...

I suspect Secret Invasion is what is next.

[Besouro]

I'd say bring back AIM before we do Hydra again.

Here, here....co-signed!

[Besouro]

Ok this is another issue I have with this show. Whats coming across on the screen to me as far as budget looks less than the average Agents of Shield Episode.

AoS had a crazy ton of characters with crazy cg required superpowers.....that's not the case here in FnWS and it's not needed. The show is fine as it is.

[silvercover]

And the Dora weren't trying to murder Walker, so kindly stop with that. If they wanted him dead he would be dead, they dominated that fight. He stood between them and Zemo, so they removed him from that path. Hell, they didn't even hurt him when they did it. At least physically. His emotional shattering speaks for itself, but is largely his own doing.

Dude rewatch the fight, they were about to stab Walker and Lamar if Bucky and Sam hadn't stepped in. Maybe they wouldn't have killed them but they were definitely willing to wound them to stop them from interfering and they only really stopped when it became apparent Zemo got away. And for what? Walker just putting his hand on their shoulder to try to talk them out of leaving Zemo to them? The irony of people cheering for them just cause they beat up Walker, when if he wasn't there they'd have done the same to Sam and Bucky if they didn't want to give up Zemo, which is also what Walker was probably going to do.

Just in case you want a refresher right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpUq-kYMPkc
1:20 Walker was exhausted and had the spear already pointed at his face by Ayo, yet she still decided to pull back and Bucky, who previously was just hanging back and judged that he didn't need to do anything, had to step in.
1:30 Lamar was literally on his back, clearly downed already, yet they were still about to stab him if Sam hadn't intervened.

[kidfresh512]

Dude rewatch the fight, they were about to stab Walker and Lamar if Bucky and Sam hadn't stepped in. Maybe they wouldn't have killed them but they were definitely willing to wound them to stop them from interfering and they only really stopped when it became apparent Zemo got away. And for what? Walker just putting his hand on their shoulder to try to talk them out of leaving Zemo to them? The irony of people cheering for them just cause they beat up Walker, when if he wasn't there they'd have done the same to Sam and Bucky if they didn't want to give up Zemo, which is also what Walker was probably going to do.

Bucky was the audience point of view in that fight before he got involved. Sam warned him to calm down and back off his aggressive posture to them. You don't put your hands on people like that. He got overly familiar and Ayo checked him.

Yes they seemed to be at points wiling to at least stab or maim Walker in the fight which is when Bucky and Sam tried to intervene.
The Dora's ended up sending Zemo to the Raft. He didn't go to Wakanda. If Walker listened to Sam and did not touch Ayo. And just talked to them about where they all wanted him to go to jail at it would have been fine.

[80sbaby]

The audience was okay with the DM attacking Walker because he's been acting like a condescending, entitled jerk for the most part. In the real world, it'd be an overreaction but in an action/adventure show, it's pretty standard. They solve most of their conflicts through punching.

[silvercover]

Bucky was the audience point of view in that fight before he got involved. Sam warned him to calm down and back off his aggressive posture to them. You don't put your hands on people like that. He got overly familiar and Ayo checked him.

Yes they seemed to be at points wiling to at least stab or maim Walker in the fight which is when Bucky and Sam tried to intervene.
The Dora's ended up sending Zemo to the Raft. He didn't go to Wakanda. If Walker listened to Sam and did not touch Ayo. And just talked to them about where they all wanted him to go to jail at it would have been fine.

You realize Bucky would also have a wrong point of view right? Also just cause that was being over familiar doesn't mean they needed to attack him like that, a simple move of just moving her hand to push his away would have been fine. You also miss the point of my post in that the guy I was quoting said they weren't trying to hurt them, when clearly they did. Both of them had the same goal in apprehending Zemo and could have talked it out in the end, but the Dora overreacted and were ultimately the cause of Zemo getting away. Granted it worked out later on since Zemo didn't do anything bad since getting away(at least as we know so far) before they caught up, but he could have easily gone into hiding and plotting for some more dastardly deeds.

[silvercover]

The audience was okay with the DM attacking Walker because he's been acting like a condescending, entitled jerk for the most part. In the real world, it'd be an overreaction but in an action/adventure show, it's pretty standard. They solve most of their conflicts through punching.

I understand why people cheered for it, but its still ironic since both teams had the same goal in putting Zemo back in prison and the only real difference is Walker doesn't have the power to back up his authority while the Dora have the skills to enforce their authority, yet people cheer for the Dora trying to get Zemo while getting mad at Walker for his attempt.

Also Walker's team being the first to come in and demand it, I wonder how different the reaction would be if it was the Dora that went in first to demand Sam and Bucky to hand over Zemo but then Walker and Lamar came in to try to do the same.

[j9ac9k]

You realize Bucky would also have a wrong point of view right? Also just cause that was being over familiar doesn't mean they needed to attack him like that, a simple move of just moving her hand to push his away would have been fine. You also miss the point of my post in that the guy I was quoting said they weren't trying to hurt them, when clearly they did. Both of them had the same goal in apprehending Zemo and could have talked it out in the end, but the Dora overreacted and were ultimately the cause of Zemo getting away. Granted it worked out later on since Zemo didn't do anything bad since getting away(at least as we know so far) before they caught up, but he could have easily gone into hiding and plotting for some more dastardly deeds.

If the DM had wanted to hurt Walker, that spear wouldn't have gone through the strap of his shield to just pin him to the table. I don't see how the DM fighting Walker isn't the same as what Walker was about to do with Sam right before the DM intervened. Walker wasn't interested in talking things out. They were all looking for a fight (except Sam and probably Lamar)