Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Assam]

another hug.jpg

Critically speaking, this reunion has no meaning, but as a fan, I'd be lying if I said I didn't really like this moment; hopefully a sign that Tim and Cass will re-develop their bond in the coming arcs.

Still hate Cass being so short BTW; that's never gonna change.

[Aahz]

Still hate Cass being so short BTW; that's never gonna change.

Yeah, I mean Tim is already quite short, based on this picture she is something like 5 feet at best.

And I also not a fan her being drawn with "realistic proportions".

[Frontier]

another hug.jpg

Critically speaking, this reunion has no meaning, but as a fan, I'd be lying if I said I didn't really like this moment; hopefully a sign that Tim and Cass will re-develop their bond in the coming arcs.

Still hate Cass being so short BTW; that's never gonna change.

It makes you wonder how much we should disassociate what we actually expect a characters' relationship to be and what it currently should be with continuity in mind (IE, Rebirth in a nutshell).

Cass' current absurdly short height lends itself well to a tippy-toe kiss (not that she'll probably be kissing anyone in the near future).

[Assam]

Cass' current absurdly short height lends itself well to a tippy-toe kiss (not that she'll probably be kissing anyone in the near future).

Depends. Did we get a confirmed age on Christine?

[RedBird]

macydraws.tumblr

[Assam]

It's to be expected of "Detective Comics" but League of Shadows is still doing amazing in trade sales, which, in theory anyway, can only lead to good things. (Also, the actual description gives attention to Cass, unlike the original solicit.)

One thing I've noticed from both the reviews I'm seeing of this trade and just reaction to the series in general (mostly) is that Cass seems to be the only case so far where Tynion has succeeded in his goal of building back up a fanbase.

Kate's fanbase, like Kate herself, never really went away and based on her solo's sales, her core fanbase is the same as before, Victim Syndicate and Wrath of Spoiler are (unfairly) reviled, even if upon re-inspection Victim Syndicate has a major shortcoming I didn't think of before, Intelligence featured probably some of Tynion's best writing ever for DC and some brilliant moments, but JPV himself did get lost in the shuffle, overshadowed by Zatanna, his final fight being less impressive than the one in the previous issue, Zatanna, his Bat-Suit getting more hype than JPV himself, and Zatanna (I have mentioned that this arc could have been legitimately great if they just shrank Zee's role, right?) and with Tim, likewise with Kate but on a bigger scale, his fanbase never died down; they just got pissed at bad writing.

With Cass though, despite League of Shadows being the messiest story (it still has some of my favorite issues in this run though) the character arc that, despite 956, I still feel mostly worked, seems to be ringing true for people who are being introduced to Cass in this run, and I'm seeing more and more fans pop up. We may not be entirely satisfied by RebirthCass, and unlike Pre-FPCass I can understand why people might not like this version, but overall, her fanbase, which was still big and passionate before this run, IS growing. It's further aided by the fact that Basil and Cass's dynamic is just about the only universally praised thing in this book. Tynion may not be giving us the Cass we deserve (at least not yet) but out of this cast, I think he really may be doing the most to set her up for success in the future.

[millernumber1]

It's to be expected of "Detective Comics" but League of Shadows is still doing amazing in trade sales, which, in theory anyway, can only lead to good things. (Also, the actual description gives attention to Cass, unlike the original solicit.)

One thing I've noticed from both the reviews I'm seeing of this trade and just reaction to the series in general (mostly) is that Cass seems to be the only case so far where Tynion has succeeded in his goal of building back up a fanbase.

Kate's fanbase, like Kate herself, never really went away and based on her solo's sales, her core fanbase is the same as before, Victim Syndicate and Wrath of Spoiler are (unfairly) reviled, even if upon re-inspection Victim Syndicate has a major shortcoming I didn't think of before, Intelligence featured probably some of Tynion's best writing ever for DC and some brilliant moments, but JPV himself did get lost in the shuffle, overshadowed by Zatanna, his final fight being less impressive than the one in the previous issue, Zatanna, his Bat-Suit getting more hype than JPV himself, and Zatanna (I have mentioned that this arc could have been legitimately great if they just shrank Zee's role, right?) and with Tim, likewise with Kate but on a bigger scale, his fanbase never died down; they just got pissed at bad writing.

With Cass though, despite League of Shadows being the messiest story (it still has some of my favorite issues in this run though) the character arc that, despite 956, I still feel mostly worked, seems to be ringing true for people who are being introduced to Cass in this run, and I'm seeing more and more fans pop up. We may not be entirely satisfied by RebirthCass, and unlike Pre-FPCass I can understand why people might not like this version, but overall, her fanbase, which was still big and passionate before this run, IS growing. It's further aided by the fact that Basil and Cass's dynamic is just about the only universally praised thing in this book. Tynion may not be giving us the Cass we deserve (at least not yet) but out of this cast, I think he really may be doing the most to set her up for success in the future.

Yay! (But also tears for Steph. I will say that for me, Tynion has made me much more of a fan of JPV than I was before. I'm not at the point where I'd buy a title for him alone, but I'm likely to be happy about seeing him in a title, whereas before I was incredibly meh.) (Also, I recommended Intelligence to Alisa Kwitney at Baltimore Comic-Con, because she's writing Zatanna in Mystik U, which sounds pretty fun, and was very enthusiastic about reading more of her current stuff.)

[Assam]

I will say that for me, Tynion has made me much more of a fan of JPV than I was before. I'm not at the point where I'd buy a title for him alone, but I'm likely to be happy about seeing him in a title, whereas before I was incredibly meh.

Well, hopefully you'll get there. (Maybe meeting George the kitten would work?) I actually just realized yesterday that the 8-man roster for Fall of the Batmen will have all of my Top 5 "Official" BatFamily members, which at least sounds awesome. (And no, it isn't a coincidence that all of the other 4 have been close with Cass at one point or another. It goes a long way. )

(Also, I recommended Intelligence to Alisa Kwitney at Baltimore Comic-Con, because she's writing Zatanna in Mystik U, which sounds pretty fun, and was very enthusiastic about reading more of her current stuff.)

Yeah, I may feel Zee took up WAY too much time in Intelligence, but Tynion did still write her really well.

I'm not gonna be reading Mystik U, but at least Kwitney pretty much already bottomed out with Convergence: Batgirl...a shame she bottomed out with our favorite characters, but point is, it might be good.

[millernumber1]

Well, hopefully you'll get there. (Maybe meeting George the kitten would work?) I actually just realized yesterday that the 8-man roster for Fall of the Batmen will have all of my Top 5 "Official" BatFamily members, which at least sounds awesome. (And no, it isn't a coincidence that all of the other 4 have been close with Cass at one point or another. It goes a long way. )

Yeah, I may feel Zee took up WAY too much time in Intelligence, but Tynion did still write her really well.

I'm not gonna be reading Mystik U, but at least Kwitney pretty much already bottomed out with Convergence: Batgirl...a shame she bottomed out with our favorite characters, but point is, it might be good.

I am a cat person, so that might indeed help. But, as with your love of characters who love Cass, the thing to make me love a character quickly is have them love Steph. And so far, we haven't had any Jean-Paul/Steph interaction past that one (admittedly very nice) scene in Victim Syndicate.

I think Zee was good in Intelligence, though I will agree she's definitely as big a character as Jean-Paul, which isn't quite the stated goal of that arc.

(I still have a few things I appreciate about Convergence: Batgirl, though a lot of the good stuff is hampered by some incredibly subpar art, but I'm pretty interested in Mystik U. Maybe that's Tynion's influence, too.)

[Blight]

It's to be expected of "Detective Comics" but League of Shadows is still doing amazing in trade sales, which, in theory anyway, can only lead to good things. (Also, the actual description gives attention to Cass, unlike the original solicit.)

One thing I've noticed from both the reviews I'm seeing of this trade and just reaction to the series in general (mostly) is that Cass seems to be the only case so far where Tynion has succeeded in his goal of building back up a fanbase.

Kate's fanbase, like Kate herself, never really went away and based on her solo's sales, her core fanbase is the same as before, Victim Syndicate and Wrath of Spoiler are (unfairly) reviled, even if upon re-inspection Victim Syndicate has a major shortcoming I didn't think of before, Intelligence featured probably some of Tynion's best writing ever for DC and some brilliant moments, but JPV himself did get lost in the shuffle, overshadowed by Zatanna, his final fight being less impressive than the one in the previous issue, Zatanna, his Bat-Suit getting more hype than JPV himself, and Zatanna (I have mentioned that this arc could have been legitimately great if they just shrank Zee's role, right?) and with Tim, likewise with Kate but on a bigger scale, his fanbase never died down; they just got pissed at bad writing.

With Cass though, despite League of Shadows being the messiest story (it still has some of my favorite issues in this run though) the character arc that, despite 956, I still feel mostly worked, seems to be ringing true for people who are being introduced to Cass in this run, and I'm seeing more and more fans pop up. We may not be entirely satisfied by RebirthCass, and unlike Pre-FPCass I can understand why people might not like this version, but overall, her fanbase, which was still big and passionate before this run, IS growing. It's further aided by the fact that Basil and Cass's dynamic is just about the only universally praised thing in this book. Tynion may not be giving us the Cass we deserve (at least not yet) but out of this cast, I think he really may be doing the most to set her up for success in the future.

The problem I have with Stephanie's arc throughout the series, is we're getting a tiny portion of it. Like we're missing some big beats and honestly it could have benefited with some longer issues to focus on the aftermath of the Victim's Synidcate arc. It just feels rushed and because of that Stephanie's character suffers from that. I get why though Tynion has to do what he's gotta do. He's got an outline and sadly things have to be rushed to get certain points. He had only till now to get that with Tim back. Sadly, well Stephanie's arc gets muddled.

I think that's why Tim, Cass, and Basil are the shining characters in the series. Tynion has taken his time to develop the three and continues. Why the reader can more easier latch onto these characters than sadly Steph. I think it also helps that Kate has her own ongoing because it by having her own story arc be more in that one. I mean sure we're getting a major Kate arc soon, but it's been building nicely in her ongoing and gingerly teased here/there throughout thus far.

I agree Jean Paul got outshined in his own arc by his armor and Zatanna. But look at poor Luke. All he is the tech guy. That and his budding friendship with Jean Paul. That's all he's got. Nothing more. He's feels just fill-in when he shouldn't feel as such. He fills the void when Tim was "gone". But with Tim back. Where does that leave him? With Jean Paul at least you're given an overall arc since he's been in this run. From the hunted to trying to stray with a good path to tempted/brainwashed again to breaking his chains to the past.

[Assam]

The problem I have with Stephanie's arc throughout the series, is we're getting a tiny portion of it. Like we're missing some big beats and honestly it could have benefited with some longer issues to focus on the aftermath of the Victim's Synidcate arc. It just feels rushed and because of that Stephanie's character suffers from that. I get why though Tynion has to do what he's gotta do. He's got an outline and sadly things have to be rushed to get certain points. He had only till now to get that with Tim back. Sadly, well Stephanie's arc gets muddled.

I agree.

I think that's why Tim, Cass, and Basil are the shining characters in the series. Tynion has taken his time to develop the three and continues. Why the reader can more easier latch onto these characters than sadly Steph. I think it also helps that Kate has her own ongoing because it by having her own story arc be more in that one. I mean sure we're getting a major Kate arc soon, but it's been building nicely in her ongoing and gingerly teased here/there throughout thus far.

I'm still hoping that Fall of the Batmen is primarily Basil's arc, with Kate being in the secondary role a la Tim in the first arc.

I agree Jean Paul got outshined in his own arc by his armor and Zatanna. But look at poor Luke. All he is the tech guy. That and his budding friendship with Jean Paul. That's all he's got. Nothing more. He's feels just fill-in when he shouldn't feel as such. He fills the void when Tim was "gone". But with Tim back. Where does that leave him? With Jean Paul at least you're given an overall arc since he's been in this run. From the hunted to trying to stray with a good path to tempted/brainwashed again to breaking his chains to the past.

Yeah, Luke drew the straw short enough that I didn't even see a point in mentioning him in that post; it's obvious that nothing has really been done here to significantly grow his fanbase. I love his moments with JPV and they make a better duo than I think anyone would have thought (Even if Tynion did somewhat change Luke's character for this to work) but apart from them, the best thing to come out of his presence in the book wasn't even a scene he was in, but Duke's best scene in Rebirth. He's just gotten nothing to do. And that's not stopping soon it seems, since, at earliest, he'll finally be getting an arc in the Summer; almost 2 years since he joined the team. As one of the few BatFamily members to get overall worse treatment than Cass in 2017, I do feel for his fans...even if I admit, I've never met anyone who has Luke as their favorite BatFamily member.

[Aahz]

Yeah, Luke drew the straw short enough that I didn't even see a point in mentioning him in that post; it's obvious that nothing has really been done here to significantly grow his fanbase. I love his moments with JPV and they make a better duo than I think anyone would have thought (Even if Tynion did somewhat change Luke's character for this to work) but apart from them, the best thing to come out of his presence in the book wasn't even a scene he was in, but Duke's best scene in Rebirth. He's just gotten nothing to do. And that's not stopping soon it seems, since, at earliest, he'll finally be getting an arc in the Summer; almost 2 years since he joined the team. As one of the few BatFamily members to get overall worse treatment than Cass in 2017, I do feel for his fans...even if I admit, I've never met anyone who has Luke as their favorite BatFamily member.

Actually, I'm even wondering if he will stick around now with Tim back in the book. The reason he was brought into the team was iirc to take over as the techguy from Tim, after Tim's death. Now with Tim back I don't really see what they want to do with him, unless they are splitting the teams.

[millernumber1]

Yeah, Luke drew the straw short enough that I didn't even see a point in mentioning him in that post; it's obvious that nothing has really been done here to significantly grow his fanbase. I love his moments with JPV and they make a better duo than I think anyone would have thought (Even if Tynion did somewhat change Luke's character for this to work) but apart from them, the best thing to come out of his presence in the book wasn't even a scene he was in, but Duke's best scene in Rebirth. He's just gotten nothing to do. And that's not stopping soon it seems, since, at earliest, he'll finally be getting an arc in the Summer; almost 2 years since he joined the team. As one of the few BatFamily members to get overall worse treatment than Cass in 2017, I do feel for his fans...even if I admit, I've never met anyone who has Luke as their favorite BatFamily member.

I don't know if I'd say Luke is my favorite, but I like him a lot! I thought his role in Intelligence was pretty cool - with Rookie, and building the AzBats suit. (And I like him a LOT more than Duke. And Harper. )

Actually, I'm even wondering if he will stick around now with Tim back in the book. The reason he was brought into the team was iirc to take over as the techguy from Tim, after Tim's death. Now with Tim back I don't really see what they want to do with him, unless they are splitting the teams.

Well, Tynion sets up that Tim is glad Luke's on the team, and wants to talk to him, so it doesn't sound like a setup for him leaving. I think Assam's idea of a new spinoff team book is a solid one, though I personally would be fine with one team for now. THE TEAM! (I can't get over how great that whole exchange was - "You really are Batman's cousin")

[Assam]

I don't know if I'd say Luke is my favorite, but I like him a lot! I thought his role in Intelligence was pretty cool - with Rookie, and building the AzBats suit. (And I like him a LOT more than Duke. And Harper. )

I like him too, again, primarily for the bromance. Definitely more than Duke and Harper as well. And a good number of other notable Bats But much like how I really like what's been done with JPV here, it still remains that not much has been done for either on a large scale.

[Aahz]

I don't know if I'd say Luke is my favorite, but I like him a lot! I thought his role in Intelligence was pretty cool - with Rookie, and building the AzBats suit. (And I like him a LOT more than Duke. And Harper. )

I like him, but I wouldn't really miss him, if he was put back in limbo (and that's similar with JPV).