Warren Worthington: (Arch)Angel Appreciation 2021

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well Remender had an odd view of them as a couple, seemingly only putting them together so that he could weaken Warren and have him totally dependent upon her to keep the real Warren in control of himself...

[SJNeal]

As much as I loved Remender's Uncanny X-Force, it did feel like he went into it with the idea that Warren & Betsy were a toxic couple; and their arc in the book seemed designed to convince the rest of us of the same.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well he did rush to put Betsy and his golden boy Fantomex together as quickly as he could, a toxic pairing imho...and Remender was also the one behind Alex's call be Alex statement and all of that, so he has a history of trashing characters and Warren and Alex bore the brunt of it imho...

[whitecrown]

Well he did rush to put Betsy and his golden boy Fantomex together as quickly as he could, a toxic pairing imho...and Remender was also the one behind Alex's call be Alex statement and all of that, so he has a history of trashing characters and Warren and Alex bore the brunt of it imho...

Yeah, he definitely seemed to favor Fantomex since he gave Betsy her happy ending with him.

I just brought this up in the Havok thread, but I actually liked Remender's take on Alex. It's pretty similar to what Claremont wrote for him right before he went through the Siege Perilous and I always felt Remender was the writer who best captured Claremont's characters and storylines.

[SJNeal]

I didn't love Remender putting Betsy with Fantomex (can't stand that guy at all!) but what Humphries did with them in that abominable run afterward was the bottom of the barrel. Anyways, back to Warren...

[SJNeal]

Boris Vallejo and Julie Bell both paint a gorgeous Archangel!

[whitecrown]

I have very mixed feelings on Archangel. I never cared for this version of the character until Remender's UXF but even that was a double-edged sword because even though it gave us one of the very best Warren stories, it also basically threw him into character limbo and it's been a decade now and he's still essentially there.

First he was completely erased as a character and even after he was brought back, all the writers seemed to only know how to riff off of UXF and have Warren struggle with his Archangel personality which is about as stale now as all the Phoenix drama Jean has gone through. He should be one of the most important X-Men members but it feels as though he's the most neglected of the classic members and I'm dreading that he'll be skipped over in the MCU, especially in comparison to the rest of the O5.

[SJNeal]

I have very mixed feelings on Archangel. I never cared for this version of the character until Remender's UXF but even that was a double-edged sword because even though it gave us one of the very best Warren stories, it also basically threw him into character limbo and it's been a decade now and he's still essentially there.

First he was completely erased as a character and even after he was brought back, all the writers seemed to only know how to riff off of UXF and have Warren struggle with his Archangel personality which is about as stale now as all the Phoenix drama Jean has gone through. He should be one of the most important X-Men members but it feels as though he's the most neglected of the classic members and I'm dreading that he'll be skipped over in the MCU, especially in comparison to the rest of the O5.

I like all versions of the character (except for the de-aged, amnesiac hippy!), but I'd say everything from 1989-2004 is the best. While I do know some people trace the blame for Warren's current state to Remender, he technically just picked up where Kyle & Yost left him during their X-Force run. After coming to terms with both sides of his personality years earlier, K&Y resurrected all the inner-turmoil bs that, as you say, has since become very stale.

[whitecrown]

I like all versions of the character (except for the de-aged, amnesiac hippy!), but I'd say everything from 1989-2004 is the best. While I do know some people trace the blame for Warren's current state to Remender, he technically just picked up where Kyle & Yost left him during their X-Force run. After coming to terms with both sides of his personality years earlier, K&Y resurrected all the inner-turmoil bs that, as you say, has since become very stale.

I don't even consider Nu-Angel to be Warren since he technically wasn't anyway. Glad that phase has long been over now. I was glad when Warren got his feathered wings back in the mid-90s but I never understood the need to keep his blue skin which just looked strange and out of sorts by then without the bald head and metal wings. Especially since the X-Men have always had so many blue characters anyway so Warren really came across as superfluous.

I remember when Kyle & Yost brought Archangel back and as a sort of split persona/infection of Warren and I was not happy even back then. I think Remender did make it work for the better, but I would have been fine if Archangel had never resurfaced ever again.

[K7P5V]

Anyways, back to Warren...

Truly a lovely piece. And even though it's not painted artwork, I'll always consider the Jim Lee '92 version an all-time favorite...

I don't even consider Nu-Angel to be Warren since he technically wasn't anyway. Glad that phase has long been over now. I was glad when Warren got his feathered wings back in the mid-90s but I never understood the need to keep his blue skin which just looked strange and out of sorts by then without the bald head and metal wings. Especially since the X-Men have always had so many blue characters anyway so Warren really came across as superfluous.

OMG! You have succinctly typed how I felt about the whole blue skin/feathery-winged Warren era from the '90s.
If they were going to bring back the feathery-wings, then they should've wiped away the blue from his skin and brought back classic Angel:

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I think that they left the blue skin as a constant reminder of what he'd been through and all of that...

[Thievery]

It doesn't seem like any of the current writers have any real interest in Betsy and Warren as a couple. It was really only Remender who pushed them anyway, especially since he was the one to reunite them after years.

I'd frankly be fine with Warren and Jean as an alternative since I always felt they would work well together as well although that may be nostalgia from the X-Factor days when it did seem like they might come together since Scott was technically unavailable.

I think that Fraction seemed to be interested in Warren/Betsy. H put them togather in a time travel story with Dr. Nemesis, and I believe that one of his caption boxes stated that Psylocke was one of Warren's turn-ons.
I don't know f it was meant to go any further than that.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly fine with Archangel and Betsy remaining broke up as a couple. I think that their romance has run out of gas. I have some guesses as to who they may end up with in the future, but I really couldn't say for sure.

I thought that it was a mistake to try and put teen Jean with Teen Beast when the O5 traveled to the future under Bendis. Teen Beast and Teen Jean were dull as ****. And, at least there would have been some real history between Angel and Jean, and not the ret-conned in romance with Beast.

I think that the Archangel/Jean ship has sailed. I doubt if anyone is interested in writing them these days. Not when they can write Jean with Scott or Logan. That doesn't really bother me, though.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't think that it's run out of gas, it just needs to be written well and to not go over the same old storylines over and over again that have gotten negative attention...

[Thievery]

As much as I loved Remender's Uncanny X-Force, it did feel like he went into it with the idea that Warren & Betsy were a toxic couple; and their arc in the book seemed designed to convince the rest of us of the same.

Huh. I'll have to try and go back and re-read Uncanny X-Force. I didn't take Remender's take on Warren/Betsy's relationship being portrayed as toxic. I thought that Remender wrote some nice scenes with the two of them togather. It wasn't until Archangel became completely possessed by the Death Seed that their relationship started going off of the rails a bit. And even then, Archangel still cared about Betsy enough to make her his Death Horseman.

EDIT: I do recall reading in an old Archangel appreciation thread that Remender thought that killing Warren off was a lame idea.

I have very mixed feelings on Archangel. I never cared for this version of the character until Remender's UXF but even that was a double-edged sword because even though it gave us one of the very best Warren stories, it also basically threw him into character limbo and it's been a decade now and he's still essentially there.

First he was completely erased as a character and even after he was brought back, all the writers seemed to only know how to riff off of UXF and have Warren struggle with his Archangel personality which is about as stale now as all the Phoenix drama Jean has gone through. He should be one of the most important X-Men members but it feels as though he's the most neglected of the classic members and I'm dreading that he'll be skipped over in the MCU, especially in comparison to the rest of the O5.

The metal winged version of Archangel is easily my favorite version of the character. I just find the character to be way more interesting, and help him to stand out more. The feather winged version of the character is really just another guy who flies. There are plenty of other characters who can fly and have other powers to go along with it. Plus, it seems as though most writers have more stories to tell with the metal winged version.

I don't know that I would say that Remender's story got Warren thrown completely into limbo. He had nice runs n Bunn's Uncanny X-Men, as well as Soul's Astonishing X-Men.
In the DoX era, he was part of the assault team against Orchis, and had a role in Empyre: X-Men, and appeared in They were small roles, but he wasn't completely trapped in Limbo like some other characters are.
Plus, he will have a main role in the upcoming X-Corps comic.

I don't even consider Nu-Angel to be Warren since he technically wasn't anyway. Glad that phase has long been over now. I was glad when Warren got his feathered wings back in the mid-90s but I never understood the need to keep his blue skin which just looked strange and out of sorts by then without the bald head and metal wings. Especially since the X-Men have always had so many blue characters anyway so Warren really came across as superfluous.

I remember when Kyle & Yost brought Archangel back and as a sort of split persona/infection of Warren and I was not happy even back then. I think Remender did make it work for the better, but I would have been fine if Archangel had never resurfaced ever again.

I thought that Archangel regaining his feathered wings back in the 90's was a terrible mistake.

I do agree that keeping the blue skin when he regained his feathered wings was foolish. I thought it made Warren look bad when he wore his old halo costumes, especially his red one.
If I had to pick, I would have had Warren keep his metal wings and loose the blue skin.
My favorite version of the character is when he has both the blue skin and metal wings, however.

I initially liked the split personality. I thought that it helped him stand out compared to the rest of the X-Men.

My problem with it didn't occur until later on. Archangel would get help from Betsy to get over the split personality, only for the next comic to have Archangel have problems with the spit personality again, and Betsy have to try and fix him again. I thought that it got tiring reading the same stories being told for what seemed like three years in a row.

[Thievery]

I don't think that it's run out of gas, it just needs to be written well and to not go over the same old storylines over and over again that have gotten negative attention...

Well, we've gone over whether or not the Betsy/Archangel romance has run out of gas several times in each one of Archangel's appreciation threads over the years. You still like it. I would prefer that both characters move on from each other for good, as I think that they are stale togather, and their romance has run out of gas.
I guess that we will just have to wait and see what the current writers think of it. I get the feeling that they regard it as an important part of their history and worth mentioning, but if I had to guess, I think that they are not interested in bringing it back. I could easily be wrong though.

I agree that Warren shouldn't be written in the same repetitive stories over and over. Part of why I prefer for Archangel and Betsy to be over.