Style > Substance: YOUNG AVENGERS Appreciation

[Loulou]

AGREED! Us poor Loki: Agent of Asgard fans (an INCREDIBLE series) were sadly robbed of the Skottie joy. If you've never read it, Skottie Young's art arc in New X-men the Quest for Magik was out of this world stunning.

Poor Loki... Always gets the short end of the stick. haha. I haven't read that yet but all the previews pages have looked really good. Its on my list of trades to pick up, along with the new Ms. Marvel. And no I haven't read that, but that art looks great. I'll have to see if its on Marvel Unlimited and put it in my library. I haven't really read anything with the X-men yet. Right now I'm working on Spiders! Girl and Scarlet!

So many great moments from that run; I loved Wiccan/Hulkling saving the day with the power of love.

God there was just so much awesomeness in this wasn't there!!! And it doesn't hurt that I think this is one of my favorite books for its art! Its just lovely! And that Billy/Teddy moment, and then below it with Loki and Miss America, and Prodigy and Fake Partriot! Its just perfect :-)

LOVED that Gillen embraced Wiccan's ultimate power, making him (arguably) the most powerful LGBT character at Marvel.


Ditto (and squeeeeeeeeeal!)

Yes it really was wonderful! and the Original Sins tie-in wasn't really what I was expecting, but I'm really excited to get to see Teddy, Noh-Varr, and David work together.

LOVED the series, but it wasn't cancelled. They offered Gillen/McKelvie more issues, he said no, because he felt the story he had to tell was done, and he wanted it more "season-esq"; than risk out-staying his welcome.


Agreed, BUT (for me) Gillen's run was pretty much flawless. Utter perfection even. And like Cornell on Captain Britain and MI:13, I'd rather have a perfect 14 issue run, than a solid, but flawed 25 issue run.

I was really sad to see it go, but it like short but sweet (and awesome). Maybe Gillen, or someone else, will come up with some other idea for them and decide to do another series soon...

I recently read Children's Crusade and really enjoyed it. What is the general consensus on that story with you Young Avenger fans?

I liked it. Although I had to do a lot of googling because I didn't know all the backstory (Disassembled & House of M) I was really sad about Cassie, I mean she had finally got her dad back, and then for Scott too. I am interested to see if Iron Lad ever shows back up. Maybe as a villian for the YA, but not really Kang yet.

[Kieran_Frost]

I recently read Children's Crusade and really enjoyed it. What is the general consensus on that story with you Young Avenger fans?

From what I remember (but cannot now prove, since the review threads are in old-CBR) it was very well received, with the ending upsetting a lot of people (death of Cassie and Vision, Patriot quitting). I thought it was a brilliant arc, personally.

[Andru]

I am actually re-re-re-reading this now. I enjoy it a lot but there are some things that I don't like. I don't like how everyone is ok with Wolverine wanting to commit two murders, there is a lot of hero on hero fighting and it gets a bit annoying and immature. But there are great character moments for the Young Avengers, its everyone else that I think isn't handled well.

I felt the same way. Didn't seem like anyone on his team was really bothered too much by his position.

[Kieran_Frost]

Inspired by nopozyzy in the Gambit thread, some YA questions to get the ball rolling.

1. Who is your favourite Young Avengers?
2. Who is your favourite writer for Young Avengers?
3. Who is your favourite artist for Young Avengers?
4. Who is your favourite ally to the Young Avengers?
5. Who is your favourite villain the Young Avengers (or just one of them) have faced?
6. Who are you favourite Young Avengers romance? (doesn't have to end in them dating)
7. What has been your favourite battle/fight for a Young Avenger?
8. What is your favourite scene out of the Young Avengers stories?
9. After Original Sin, who do you want the next arc to give focus too?
10. Who would you add to the current Young Avengers roster?

[Fokken]

GREAT idea, Kieran!

1. Who is your favourite Young Avenger?
Favorite Young Avenger is most certainly Billy Kaplan, from day one as the Asgardian to the most recent Style>Substance.

2. Who is your favourite writer for Young Avengers?
I have to give this to the creator, Alan Heinberg.

3. Who is your favourite artist for Young Avengers?
I'm gonna give this to Olivier Coipel, for having drawn our beloved Young Avengers during the Siege storyline. Mckelvie, is a close second.

4. Who is your favourite ally to the Young Avengers?
This has to go to the Runaways, for their numerous crossovers.

5. Who is your favourite villain the Young Avengers (or just one of them) have faced?
MAGNETO, fo sho They technically "faced" him...

6. Who are you favourite Young Avengers romance? (doesn't have to end in them dating)
Billy and Teddy, obvs. But I'd give Tommy and Kate a thunderous 2nd place.

7. What has been your favourite battle/fight for a Young Avenger?
Billy taking on the Wrecking Crew in Asgard.
Teddy fighting Daken, and resisting that sociopath's attempted pheremones.

8. What is your favourite scene out of the Young Avengers stories?
Definitely the introductory battle in Children's Crusade that identifies each of the YA. Close 2nd: The amazing double page spread of Noh Varr kicking ass at the club, saving Billy, Teddy and MAC. Utterly gorgeous.

9. After Original Sin, who do you want the next arc to give focus too?
I want the YA to get a little Cosmic and explore Teddy's intergalactic roots and SAVE Xavin.

10. Who would you add to the current Young Avengers roster?
Victor and/or Finesse.

[Fokken]

Question 7

[Fokken]

Question 4

[Fokken]

Question 8

[Fokken]

[Sutekh]

I recently read Children's Crusade and really enjoyed it. What is the general consensus on that story with you Young Avenger fans?

I kind of had a love-hate relationship with it.

I hated what was done to Wanda (pretty much since Byrne started running her into the ground in his West Coast Avengers run, where it seemed every other storyline was about her powers being out of control, or her being victimized by the villain of the week, or her having some gross emotional problems) in House of M / Decimation, which was actually something that even her retconned 'reality manipulation powers' simply couldn't have done, so it was nice to see Children's Crusade explain that away with the Doom/Life-Force explanation, and potentially free her up from that badly written nonsense.

And yet, I kind of knew that it wasn't going to stick. Too many people at Marvel are too heavily locked into the 'women can't handle power without being cray-cray / evil' meme, and within a year of losing that power and being absolved of responsibility for the Decimation, she's in Uncanny Avengers with the exact same powers *she just lost,* and being blamed by people *who where there when it was proven to be Doom's fault* for the Decimation.

I wanted to believe what Children's Crusade was selling, but ultimately, it was unwritten as fast as Rick Remender could unwrite it. The only lasting thing that came of it was that Rictor got his powers back, which is less to do with how great Children's Crusade is, than a credit to Peter David for actually respecting other writers enough to not crap all over their stories in a rush to re-instate some specious status quo.

As for the story itself, I felt like a few characters were written pretty one-dimensionally, and that the story suffered from entirely too many people being present (with, at points, all of the X-Men, all of the Avengers, all of the X-Factor people, Quicksilver, Magneto, Wanda and, oh yeah, even some actual *Young Avengers* standing around with nothing to do but eat popcorn). It was less a story and more of a 'Flash-Mob in Latveria!', at that point. Wolverine seemed particularly out of character. Cyclops pretty much flat-out stated that he'd rather kill Wanda than allow her to repower mutants, which was only one of several *insane* things that got said. Iron Man probably said something super-villainy as well, but that's pretty much his entire characterization since Civil War, so no shock there.

And the early part, where Billy's 'spellcasting' powers get similarly re-defined as 'reality manipulation,' with the usual canard of 'oh, now we have to have a lively debate about whether or not we have to kill him?' So tired of that.

After twenty some years of 'female character X is too powerful, and women can't handle power without getting all emotional, so she must die!' now we've reached the glorious future, where it's 'gay character X is too powerful, blah, blah, blah, so he must die!'

I'd love a ten year moratorium on that particular plotline (or on Young Avengers story arcs based around Billy Kaplan's powers as the threat-of-the-week). Let the lad actually be one of the heroes, and not the menace. If anyone wants to talk about killing Billy, let it be *villains,* and not people like Wolverine or Cyclops or Iron Man.

[Fokken]

Wow.
Well said, Sutekh. I really enjoy your insights.

[Sutekh]

Wow.
Well said, Sutekh. I really enjoy your insights.

Thanks! And I love that you picked Finesse as a fun potential new Young Avenger. She's got great potential!

Like I said, love/hate. I love the characters, and the premise, and just wish that the many, many interesting stories that could be told about them that *don't* revolve around whether or not Billy! Must! Die! could be told. Billy deserves better than that. *Everybody* else deserves better than that.

For that reason, I tend to prefer Hulkling, Kate Bishop and Miss America Chavez, as Young Avengers, since they are just doing the best that they can, and not generally being used as drama-fodder.

Eli's initial run with MGH, confrontational race-sensitive commentary to Captain America, followed by his unfortunate choices in Children's Crusade, and his big plot element at one point being 'oh, he's hurt, go fly him to a hospital!' kind of left me feeling like's he's been particularly ill-served, making him seem less likable as a character, and perhaps playing into an 'angry black kid' stereotype. I thought they were working past that, in the initial run, and that Kate, in particular, was grounding him and kind of taking the pressure off that he was putting on himself. But that went away, and Children's Crusade seemed to regress him. I actually don't mind that Gillen chose not to use him, since I think he needed a break, and I'd rather he be saved for a writer who has more time for him, and writing him well, than was available in Children's Crusade, with it's thirty or so active characters.

I don't dislike drama. Stature had some good drama with the Iron Lad/Vision not-triangle, and her own doubts causing her powers to go out of control briefly, but moved past it, and went on to be stronger for it (particularly moving on to become an actual Avenger, in Pym's Mighty Avengers!), and I like that she didn't seem trapped in a previous state, but was growing and maturing and *learning* both as a character and as a hero. Her death at the end of Children's Crusade may well have resulted in that. She *had* grown. Any 'story' that required Cassie to be the impetuous screwup would have been a regression of her character, and so perhaps she became the logical 'shocking death,' since a genre that sees teenagers as impulsive screwups might find a mature Cassie hard to slot into that role. With Kate Bishop, already a mature level-headed 'team mom' of sorts (despite being the same age), Cassie dropping from actual Avenger to hang with her 'Young Avenger' teen friends again may have seemed like a demotion, and one too many 'team moms.'

Noh-Varr's another favorite, but he's just odd. He's been three *completely* different characters, that I've seen. I loved the misanthropic wise-ass from Morrison's original Marvel Boy run. I did not care at all for the grim humorless thirty-something 'Protector' thing he was portrayed as being later. And I loved the fun-loving hedonistic party-boy from this last Young Avengers run. I just don't think of those three guys as being the same guy.

In his next appearance, Noh-Varr needs to be a hard-bitten zombie soldier from a post-apocalyptic future. Or part cyborg with a glowing eye and an M tattoo. Or a sun-worshipping were-dinosaur from the Hollow Earth. Or an Asian ninja in a bikini. Or six intelligent mutant cats all stacked up top of each other in a man-suit. Perhaps even changing from page to page. Either way, nobody is allowed to notice that in his every appearance, he's just wildly different.

[Tiamatty]

1. Who is your favourite Young Avengers?
Miss America and Kate Bishop.

2. Who is your favourite writer for Young Avengers?
Kieron Gillen.

3. Who is your favourite artist for Young Avengers?
Jamie McKelvie.

4. Who is your favourite ally to the Young Avengers?
Every teen hero they could get on the phone.

5. Who is your favourite villain the Young Avengers (or just one of them) have faced?
Mother. Or possibly the Skifflefuffles.

6. Who are you favourite Young Avengers romance? (doesn't have to end in them dating)
Billy and Teddy.

7. What has been your favourite battle/fight for a Young Avenger?
The YA vs. their parents, YA#5.

8. What is your favourite scene out of the Young Avengers stories?
"Being a superhero is amazing. Everyone should try it."

9. After Original Sin, who do you want the next arc to give focus too?
I wouldn't mind some Miss America love.

10. Who would you add to the current Young Avengers roster?
Finesse and Spider-Girl.

[vin31]

Inspired by nopozyzy in the Gambit thread, some YA questions to get the ball rolling.

1. Who is your favourite Young Avengers?
2. Who is your favourite writer for Young Avengers?
3. Who is your favourite artist for Young Avengers?
4. Who is your favourite ally to the Young Avengers?
5. Who is your favourite villain the Young Avengers (or just one of them) have faced?
6. Who are you favourite Young Avengers romance? (doesn't have to end in them dating)
7. What has been your favourite battle/fight for a Young Avenger?
8. What is your favourite scene out of the Young Avengers stories?
9. After Original Sin, who do you want the next arc to give focus too?
10. Who would you add to the current Young Avengers roster?

1.The young Vision (Jonas)
2.Alan Heinberg
3.Jim Cheung
4.
5.Kang
6.Young Vision/Cassie
7.Young Vision vs Kang
8.
9.bringing back young Vision and Cassie
10.Young Vision and Cassie Lang

[NexusTenebrare]

I recently read Children's Crusade and really enjoyed it. What is the general consensus on that story with you Young Avenger fans?

I loved it for the most part.
Not too keen on the inclusion of X-factor, but then I'm not a fan of that team. But even putting that aside, their inclusion felt forced to me.
Other than that it was a lot of fun. A good follow up to Heinberg's brilliant first run. It was great to get some resolution on the whole SW's sons thing (though not completely) and fantastic to see the boys interact with Magneto and Quicksilver.
I'm glad we got that 'second' series by Heinberg, because I really wasn't a fan of what Gillen did with my favorite team.

I liked it. Although I had to do a lot of googling because I didn't know all the backstory (Disassembled & House of M) I was really sad about Cassie, I mean she had finally got her dad back, and then for Scott too. I am interested to see if Iron Lad ever shows back up. Maybe as a villian for the YA, but not really Kang yet.

He already showed up again.
He was in Matt Fraction's FF. The one with Scott Lang.
Working alongside Doom, which seemed a bit weird all things considered. Though I suppose he was trying to cheat Doom out of ultimate power.

Inspired by nopozyzy in the Gambit thread, some YA questions to get the ball rolling.

1. Who is your favourite Young Avengers?
2. Who is your favourite writer for Young Avengers?
3. Who is your favourite artist for Young Avengers?
4. Who is your favourite ally to the Young Avengers?
5. Who is your favourite villain the Young Avengers (or just one of them) have faced?
6. Who are you favourite Young Avengers romance? (doesn't have to end in them dating)
7. What has been your favourite battle/fight for a Young Avenger?
8. What is your favourite scene out of the Young Avengers stories?
9. After Original Sin, who do you want the next arc to give focus too?
10. Who would you add to the current Young Avengers roster?

1) Billy, natch!
2) Heinberg. I'd like to see Fraction's take on them though, since he did a good job with Kate.
3) Jim Cheung. The guy's art is amazing. Stefano Caselli on the Civil War mini was fantastic too.
4) Jessica Jones. I really liked her interaction with them in the first series. Maybe Super-Skrull. I hope he shows up again to interact with Teddy.
5) I suppose Doom. Them facing off against Lady Loki in Mighty was fun too.
6) Who else? Billy/Teddy. Best. Romance. Ever.
7) The big Avengers and Young Avenger versus Skrulls and Kree melee at the end of the first series.
8) Too many. Wanda's boys interacting with uncle and Granddad. Any number of tender moments between Teddy and Billy. Billy aiding Dr. Strange in an old issue of New Avengers. The YA and the Runaways bonding in the Civil War mini.
9) I want a cosmic YA story focussing on Teddy. Maybe they receive news that Princess Anelle could still be alive and they find a way off Earth to investigate. That or the War of Marvels thing that was proposed before the server wipe. I'd love to see Teddy interact with Mar-Vell's other children and maybe the real Mar-Vell.
10) Anole. He just seemed to want to join so badly during New X-Men. It'd be nice to see his wish granted. And it would mean he'd actually get to appear in a book.

After twenty some years of 'female character X is too powerful, and women can't handle power without getting all emotional, so she must die!' now we've reached the glorious future, where it's 'gay character X is too powerful, blah, blah, blah, so he must die!'

What? Because male characters with great power do so much better?
Maybe you missed the whole thing where Strange was sacked from being Sorcerer Supreme for going over the line. And hey, guess what. He's doing the exact same thing again right now in New Avengers.
Or how the supposedly smartest men in the MU like Richards and Stark constantly have things blow up in their face because appearantly being super smart doesn't keep them from doing monumentally stupid things.
Or how Professor X got his character continually crapped on by first suggesting that he was perving over Jean Grey and then having him enslave an artificial intelligence or the time he got an entire team killed and burried any trace of their existence.
Seriously, these things happen to major male characters too. Sometime people really cry misoginist too quickly.

Oh and it made sense for them to revisit that plotline with Billy. He is Wanda's son afterall with the same powerset. It would be stupid for them not to revisit that. Especially considering that despite what happened with Wanda, Strange didn't seem particularly concerned with teaching Wiccan about controlling his powers.
I'm still holding my fingers crossed for a sort of supernatural Avengers Academy where Strange takes a few young magically-inclined heroes under his wing and teaches them in the use of their powers. And it will be called Arcane Avengers.