Gwen Stacy Appreciation 2018

[Celgress]

So I am thinking of doing a Valentine’s Day themed CYOA fanfic for Peter/Spider-Man with about eight different love interests to meet, either in their civilian or superhero personas, so I was just wondering what sorts of things fans of Peter/Gwen might want to see in a possible date or romantic setting? Just an experiment I might be trying as a Spider-Man fan...

A capital idea. I'll be sure to give the series a read when it is finished.

[Derek Metaltron]

Uhhh...that's a bad idea. The thing, is Gwen Stacy, Peter's dead girlfriend who died...Is a Completely Different Character From SPIDER-GWEN. I mean sorry for being harsh, but the fact is Spider-Gwen is a teenager. She has met the adult 616 Peter, and there is no romantic tension between them. Peter is not a creep.

The Gwen Stacy Peter dated and loved in the comics is the college girl daughter of cop, who loved Peter but hated Spider-Man and died without knowing his identity.

...Having said that, it's fanfiction, it's your story, go ahead. But since you are asking us comics' liking guys, just pointing out some problems in that idea.

As Celgress says this is gonna be a different continuity where Peter and Gwen are the same age but she’s also Spider-Gwen/Ghost Spider. Probably with a mixture of classic comic Gwen, Emma Stone Gwen and Earth 65 Gwen. That’s the theory anyway...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Gwen Stacy is a truly weird character. She is easily the most inconsistently written character in the Spider-Man stories. Somewhere down the line, I predict she will create a problem similar to Hawkman (read-up about the Hawkman Continuity Snarl where so many interpretations and reinterpretations made that character almost completely unusable).

Basically there are many version of Gwen under different writers and teams:

1) Steve Ditko's Gwen: Her creator and first artist made her a pompous, arrogant, entitled rich girl in college. She's always frowning (resting b--ch face as we call it), looks like Veronica Lake, outright bullies Peter on many occasions and is basically the female version of the guy who negs a girl to show that they're interested in him. She's basically Regina George from MEAN GIRLS, who sends one of her friends Sally Green to hit on Peter to basically tease out if Peter isn't interested in her because he thinks she's dumb (Peter dodges that because he does't want "another Betty Brant situation" i.e.a girl who thinks he's just an egghead, aka he doesn't want intellectual equals contrary to BND hooch). Gwen is also a beauty queen and according to a line about Peter being the only boy who hasn't given me a tumble, she's not some chaste pure innocent. She's implied to be some man-eater type or whatnot. Cards on the table, this is my absolute favorite version of Gwen. I think it's the best version of the character, most charismatic, and one with most agency.

2) The Many Gwens of Lee-Romita: The big problem with this, even if it is the most iconic Gwen is that Lee-Romita were phenomenally inconsistent in how they wrote and designed Gwen. She changes multiple times, gets characteristics that is faddish, and it's not motivated and done well.
- Between Issues #39-42, she's consistent to Ditko Gwen but made more attractive and nicer (also happens to Harry Osborn).
- From Issues #43-50, she's kind of a sassy girl who's trying to Out-MJ'ing MJ which again creates problems because Lee clearly forgot (or didn't care) that Ditko not ten issues before wrote her as a jackass boy crazy serial dater who was a beauty-queen. If anything Romita's MJ was Ditko-Gwen who was a nice girl, pleasant company, and smiled a lot (and Mary Jane truly does have the best smile in comics)...Flash, Harry and Peter knew this, but they are acting as if Gwen showing this side of her is a new thing, and from this people got this idea that Gwen was "the good girl" or "the Betty" to MJ's Veronica which is the most absurd misreading imaginable.
- Then #51-90: Daddy's Girl Gwen. You have George Stacy (an excellent supporting character) and basically Gwen is a third wheel in Peter's surrogate dad relationship to George, who's also a cop who's a Spidey fan. In this period, Gwen kisses the ground Peter walks on, but she hates Spider-Man and parrots Jameson's words. Peter in one of his moods tries to confess to his friends that he's Spider-Man but Gwen's reaction is so hysterical and over-the-top that he swears off ever telling her (ASM#87). Then George Stacy dies and she flies to London.
- #91-110 or so, Gwen briefly becomes some bikini model because why not. Gwen gets angry at one point and insults Aunt May for smothering Peter (which depending on how you look at it, is either deserved based on how fans see May as this Millstone on Peter's neck or overly jerky when seen in context...I lean to the latter).
- #110-120 - Gwen is basically Peter's arm candy.

3) Saint Gwen; Basically Gwen Stacy after she died. She's made this saint, everyone says she was perfect, writers periodically think she was the one, that Peter would just surely have married her had things not been the case. When one, there's the big hurdle of the fact that she HATED Spider-Man. A hurdle that people assume that she's just gonna get over when ASM#87 before George's death clearly shows that the idea sent her into hysterics. There's also the hurdle that Peter lied to her repeatedly in that relationship, didn't trust her with his secret...which again it's unlikely she believable accepts. Saint Gwen is useful only when she serves as a foil for MJ, her insecurity about Peter, about growing up poor and so on. It makes Mary Jane a more vulnerable and interesting character. But again it's got no reality to it.

4) Sins' Past: Gwen is babymama to Norman Osborn, her future murderer. 'Nuff said.

5) Ultimate Gwen Stacy: Punk badass gothic girl who ultimately unexpectedly becomes adopted by Aunt May and is basically Peter's step-sister, and close friend to Mary Jane. She and Peter weren't dating when she briefly died at Carnage's hands, and then comes back as clone-but-not-really-as-good-as-the-real-thing. And then she and Peter date, which comes across as incest-y and is called out as so by others. Relationship ends and she's back to sister figure. This version of Gwen ultimately inspired Spider-Gwen I think.

6) Emma Stone's Gwen: Basically Mary Jane Watson, classical and ultimate, mixed with Jane Foster's smarts. Since she's Peter's confidant (which was MJ), partner and sidekick (Ultimate MJ), and doesn't blame him for her father's death (which to me is a major character assassination of Gwen...that is one of her most defining elements). And yes, very much a Mary Sue...whose death by the way made zero sense in the movie. The only reason her comics counterpart got whacked is to move MJ into Peter's life.

7) Spider-Gwen: Ultimate Gwen with a mix of Emma Stone Gwen, except she's a hero. Not a love-interest to Peter, not tied to him, and is basically younger than main Peter, and is now a sorta love interest for Miles Morales.



My Gwen Rankings:
1) Ditko Gwen
2) Spider-Gwen
3) Ultimate Gwen

Those three are the only Gwens who aren't real love interests and for the most part not-in-relationship-with Peter. I think her characterization is best when she and Peter aren't together. Peter maker her boring, and she makes Peter annoying and stupid. They are a super bland couple. I don't think she should have died, or she had to die for Peter and MJ to be together (as Bendis proved).

[eratas123]

Cover for new Marvel Rising comic.



...Still not sure why the fuck Gwen's there considering she's not in 616 and, from what I've heard, Miles is the Spider present for the run. Wolverine Publicity, I guess?

Gwen Stacy is a truly weird character. She is easily the most inconsistently written character in the Spider-Man stories. Somewhere down the line, I predict she will create a problem similar to Hawkman (read-up about the Hawkman Continuity Snarl where so many interpretations and reinterpretations made that character almost completely unusable).

Basically there are many version of Gwen under different writers and teams:

1) Steve Ditko's Gwen: Her creator and first artist made her a pompous, arrogant, entitled rich girl in college. She's always frowning (resting b--ch face as we call it), looks like Veronica Lake, outright bullies Peter on many occasions and is basically the female version of the guy who negs a girl to show that they're interested in him. She's basically Regina George from MEAN GIRLS, who sends one of her friends Sally Green to hit on Peter to basically tease out if Peter isn't interested in her because he thinks she's dumb (Peter dodges that because he does't want "another Betty Brant situation" i.e.a girl who thinks he's just an egghead, aka he doesn't want intellectual equals contrary to BND hooch). Gwen is also a beauty queen and according to a line about Peter being the only boy who hasn't given me a tumble, she's not some chaste pure innocent. She's implied to be some man-eater type or whatnot. Cards on the table, this is my absolute favorite version of Gwen. I think it's the best version of the character, most charismatic, and one with most agency.

2) The Many Gwens of Lee-Romita: The big problem with this, even if it is the most iconic Gwen is that Lee-Romita were phenomenally inconsistent in how they wrote and designed Gwen. She changes multiple times, gets characteristics that is faddish, and it's not motivated and done well.
- Between Issues #39-42, she's consistent to Ditko Gwen but made more attractive and nicer (also happens to Harry Osborn).
- From Issues #43-50, she's kind of a sassy girl who's trying to Out-MJ'ing MJ which again creates problems because Lee clearly forgot (or didn't care) that Ditko not ten issues before wrote her as a jackass boy crazy serial dater who was a beauty-queen. If anything Romita's MJ was Ditko-Gwen who was a nice girl, pleasant company, and smiled a lot (and Mary Jane truly does have the best smile in comics)...Flash, Harry and Peter knew this, but they are acting as if Gwen showing this side of her is a new thing, and from this people got this idea that Gwen was "the good girl" or "the Betty" to MJ's Veronica which is the most absurd misreading imaginable.
- Then #51-90: Daddy's Girl Gwen. You have George Stacy (an excellent supporting character) and basically Gwen is a third wheel in Peter's surrogate dad relationship to George, who's also a cop who's a Spidey fan. In this period, Gwen kisses the ground Peter walks on, but she hates Spider-Man and parrots Jameson's words. Peter in one of his moods tries to confess to his friends that he's Spider-Man but Gwen's reaction is so hysterical and over-the-top that he swears off ever telling her (ASM#87). Then George Stacy dies and she flies to London.
- #91-110 or so, Gwen briefly becomes some bikini model because why not. Gwen gets angry at one point and insults Aunt May for smothering Peter (which depending on how you look at it, is either deserved based on how fans see May as this Millstone on Peter's neck or overly jerky when seen in context...I lean to the latter).
- #110-120 - Gwen is basically Peter's arm candy.

3) Saint Gwen; Basically Gwen Stacy after she died. She's made this saint, everyone says she was perfect, writers periodically think she was the one, that Peter would just surely have married her had things not been the case. When one, there's the big hurdle of the fact that she HATED Spider-Man. A hurdle that people assume that she's just gonna get over when ASM#87 before George's death clearly shows that the idea sent her into hysterics. There's also the hurdle that Peter lied to her repeatedly in that relationship, didn't trust her with his secret...which again it's unlikely she believable accepts. Saint Gwen is useful only when she serves as a foil for MJ, her insecurity about Peter, about growing up poor and so on. It makes Mary Jane a more vulnerable and interesting character. But again it's got no reality to it.

4) Sins' Past: Gwen is babymama to Norman Osborn, her future murderer. 'Nuff said.

5) Ultimate Gwen Stacy: Punk badass gothic girl who ultimately unexpectedly becomes adopted by Aunt May and is basically Peter's step-sister, and close friend to Mary Jane. She and Peter weren't dating when she briefly died at Carnage's hands, and then comes back as clone-but-not-really-as-good-as-the-real-thing. And then she and Peter date, which comes across as incest-y and is called out as so by others. Relationship ends and she's back to sister figure. This version of Gwen ultimately inspired Spider-Gwen I think.

6) Emma Stone's Gwen: Basically Mary Jane Watson, classical and ultimate, mixed with Jane Foster's smarts. Since she's Peter's confidant (which was MJ), partner and sidekick (Ultimate MJ), and doesn't blame him for her father's death (which to me is a major character assassination of Gwen...that is one of her most defining elements). And yes, very much a Mary Sue...whose death by the way made zero sense in the movie. The only reason her comics counterpart got whacked is to move MJ into Peter's life.

7) Spider-Gwen: Ultimate Gwen with a mix of Emma Stone Gwen, except she's a hero. Not a love-interest to Peter, not tied to him, and is basically younger than main Peter, and is now a sorta love interest for Miles Morales.



My Gwen Rankings:
1) Ditko Gwen
2) Spider-Gwen
3) Ultimate Gwen

Those three are the only Gwens who aren't real love interests and for the most part not-in-relationship-with Peter. I think her characterization is best when she and Peter aren't together. Peter maker her boring, and she makes Peter annoying and stupid. They are a super bland couple. I don't think she should have died, or she had to die for Peter and MJ to be together (as Bendis proved).

A very nice explanation on all the Gwens. Yeah, we discussed Gwen's odd, oftentimes nonsensical shifts from dimension to dimension. What makes it noticeable is that Gwen is one of the few who consistently change. When we see Spider-Man characters they tend to default to specific archetypes - Peter's the poor, nerdy underdog; Harry's the rich kid with daddy issues up the wazoo; and MJ's the party girl and go-getter that generally injects fun into wherever she goes. Recently Mary Jane has shifted to a more compenent investigator/journalist figure, but at least then that's still a consistent change going from party girl with depths --> Journalist with spunk.

Gwen, on the other hand, is just all over the fucking place. She's been everything from a super genius (ASM and latest cartoon), a tomboy (Ultimate, Spidey comic and Spider-Gwen), a snob (early Gwen), an action survivor (Age of Apocalypse), a girl next door/basically Debra Whitman (Spectacular cartoon) and everything in-between. So when you ask a fan 'who is Gwen Stacy' you're pretty much either gonna come up blank or, for younger readers, they'll point to Emma Stone or Spider-Gwen and assume she was always like that. Thankfully her transitions seem to have stabilized to an extent since most variations of Gwens that show up nowadays are basically the Ultimate/Spider-Gwen archetype: kick-ass teenager/young woman who pulls her sleeves back and gets into the thick of it, likely with a quip for good measure. Here's how she appeared in the IDW preview:



During the Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man comic when they ran into a world where Norman took over Gwen was also one of the rebels and called her Peter out on not fighting, so she seems to be solidifying into this role. Sadly she also seems to be solidifying to always wearing those damn cyan shoes that the artists shoehorn into every version regardless of how little sense it makes.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Thankfully her transitions seem to have stabilized to an extent since most variations of Gwens that show up nowadays are basically the Ultimate/Spider-Gwen archetype: kick-ass teenager/young woman who pulls her sleeves back and gets into the thick of it, likely with a quip for good measure. Here's how she appeared in the IDW preview:

During the Peter Parker: Spectacular Spider-Man comic when they ran into a world where Norman took over Gwen was also one of the rebels and called her Peter out on not fighting, so she seems to be solidifying into this role. Sadly she also seems to be solidifying to always wearing those damn cyan shoes that the artists shoehorn into every version regardless of how little sense it makes.

IDW Spider-Man is Marvel cartoon show tie ins, never heard of it. Based on previews. Glad I did.

[eratas123]

IDW Spider-Man is Marvel cartoon show tie ins, never heard of it. Based on previews. Glad I did.

It is? The Marvel Cartoon versions are different. Last I checked they were all on Horizon High, not taking journalism classes. Also, Gwen does not have pink hair in the cartoons and Peter has green eyes as well.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

[EDITED - Owing to change in context]

There's no real global version of Gwen Stacy. For instance, Mary Jane has been interpreted and reinterpreted but in multiple versions, she shares being this warm person, who comes from a poor background, a broken home, and liking both Peter and Spider-Man and being his confidant. She doesn't start there or hit there all the time but she does get there. The fact that the Gwen Stacy currently being marketed like crazy and popular among young readers is A) Teenage, B) Explicitly not intended as a love interest for Peter, C) Not really rooted in nostalgia...means that there's an entire generation of readers for whom Gwen is not the girl who died...which honestly is great. When she was alive, Gwen Stacy was quite unpopular among female readers. There is actual evidence for this. Read up the letters column for Amazing Spider-Man #125:

I never imagined you could actually kill Gwen. You have more intelligence then I gave you credit for. I fervently hope Gwen doesn't make a miraculous recovery in #122 (or in any subsequent issues). I also hope Peter doesn't mourn her too long...how long can he grieve over a person whose brain was constructed entirely out of old Pepsi bottles and whose personality had the exact color, consistency, and flavor of a loaf of Wonder Bread?

As long as we're discussing the women Peter's mag, do not ever have Mary Jane Watson fall in love with Harry! Of course M. J. is immature (so is Harry; he's the one on LSD), but that doesn't mean she hates men. She just doesn't want any short-haired, neurotic, spoiled acid-head (or even a well adjusted dude) trying to own her. Keep her independent, but do develop her personality. You people haven't yet gotten over the notion that the way to give a female character personality is to give her a romance. We know M. J. isn't made out of Wonder Bread and mayonaisse like a certain happily-departed blonde-brain, but what is she made of?

— Jane C. Hollingsworth, Letter to the Editor, "The Spider's Web" Column, published in Amazing Spider-Man, #125.

The Night Gwen Stacy Died triggered a lot of backlash when it happened, but the reaction was varied across the board. Mostly fans were upset that Spider-Man lost his girlfriend, or that he may have snapped his neck by accident (and to be honest, I always thought that was stupid as a concept and unnecessary), and so on. At the same time you also had the other reaction, which is Gwen's death was "good riddance" and "yeah, scrappy is dead". That doesn't get spoken of much, but I feel it should.

[Mister Mets]

Three posts were deleted. Don't go with personal attacks.

[Frontier]

It is? The Marvel Cartoon versions are different. Last I checked they were all on Horizon High, not taking journalism classes. Also, Gwen does not have pink hair in the cartoons and Peter has green eyes as well.

Yeah, a lot of people just jump on assuming Marvel Action is in-continuity with Marvel's Spider-Man even though it isn't.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Yeah, a lot of people just jump on assuming Marvel Action is in-continuity with Marvel's Spider-Man even though it isn't.

Sorry for that. What exactly is Marvel Action then? Kid friendly versions of Spider-Man. Is that it?

[Frontier]

Sorry for that. What exactly is Marvel Action then? Kid friendly versions of Spider-Man. Is that it?

Basically. Think "Marvel Adventures," just not published by Marvel comics .

[Celgress]

Chapter Twelve of my What If Gwen Stacy Survived? story is posted. With Harry badly injured (after the events of the previous chapter) and Oscorp on the ropes, Peter turns to the one man who he hopes can help - his new uncle Doc Ock!. Will Peter's idea work or will his plan merely make things worse? -

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1276833...wined-Destines

If so inclined, enjoy.

[AngelJD]

The matter that 'Gwen Stacy' has alot of variety in the Multiverse is one of the reasons she fascinates me moreso than many of the other Spider-Man cast of characters when a new Earth is brought about. Per new Earth in a Multiverse where anything is possible 'Gwen' is a unknown factor and I like that vs some others where I'm usually knowing how they might be presented with a few changes sometimes (though pleasantly surprised or not also a few times). Sometimes I like the new Gwens presented and sometimes I don't by writers but I still find myself interested to what might be for each new Earth Gwen made.

As far as Favorite versions of Gwen (and MJ) that is always going to be personal bias and views.
That letter that was written was from one person but others were not happy 616 Gwen died. Some liked early 616 MJ (her debut issue-121) and others I found didn't like early 616 MJ at that point until on or and after #122 showed character development for her and what Conway and other writers made of her afterwards.


"how long can he grieve over a person whose brain was constructed entirely out of old Pepsi bottles and whose personality had the exact color, consistency, and flavor of a loaf of Wonder Bread" There is 'constructive criticism' and there is this.
What she disliked she could of properly prepared a letter to Stan Lee about how he wrote her (and later for the VERY few issues Conway did) and while she didn't like his version of Gwen she could of posted what 'weakness' she saw in her opinion and how there could of been made or she could of been made and present better.
"Here what I dislike..."
"The 'why' in my opinion beyond name calling or degrading..."
"Lastly The ways to positively improve a character/this character with developments in a personal perspective and whys/hows as well..."

As far as different Gwens of the Multiverse goes the original V1 616 Gwen Stacy wasn't my favorite (neutral feeling for me) of the early issues but when I expense such personal views I tried to be detailed as possible so others that might not share my views might still understand why I feel them and possibly coming from.

Also I found Peter grieving and in pain due to Gwen's death (and what he might of played in it) to be a realistic reaction. Just like I feel if MJ died tragically he would grieve in some form in his heart forever as when somebody loses somebody they love or hold dear the pain can remain in a person's heart for a long time and possible a lifetime (though some scars might heal in time or be better with help and time there is always going to be something there). I just feel this way as losing my grandmother a few years ago who was a big part of my life was painful. The first holidays or significant days can be hard for a person who just had a loss. Every Christmas I recall going to see her but now every Christmas while I'm having fun I also recall her and it can hurt a bit. So I felt Conway showed a realistic grieving process and hardships such as having a first Christmas without Gwen. Going through the grieving process in a natural way vs quickly helped make the relationship with MJ afterwards feel natural as well in time.

[Lukmendes]

Gwen Stacy is a truly weird character. She is easily the most inconsistently written character in the Spider-Man stories. Somewhere down the line, I predict she will create a problem similar to Hawkman (read-up about the Hawkman Continuity Snarl where so many interpretations and reinterpretations made that character almost completely unusable).

Basically there are many version of Gwen under different writers and teams:

1) Steve Ditko's Gwen: Her creator and first artist made her a pompous, arrogant, entitled rich girl in college. She's always frowning (resting b--ch face as we call it), looks like Veronica Lake, outright bullies Peter on many occasions and is basically the female version of the guy who negs a girl to show that they're interested in him. She's basically Regina George from MEAN GIRLS, who sends one of her friends Sally Green to hit on Peter to basically tease out if Peter isn't interested in her because he thinks she's dumb (Peter dodges that because he does't want "another Betty Brant situation" i.e.a girl who thinks he's just an egghead, aka he doesn't want intellectual equals contrary to BND hooch). Gwen is also a beauty queen and according to a line about Peter being the only boy who hasn't given me a tumble, she's not some chaste pure innocent. She's implied to be some man-eater type or whatnot. Cards on the table, this is my absolute favorite version of Gwen. I think it's the best version of the character, most charismatic, and one with most agency.

2) The Many Gwens of Lee-Romita: The big problem with this, even if it is the most iconic Gwen is that Lee-Romita were phenomenally inconsistent in how they wrote and designed Gwen. She changes multiple times, gets characteristics that is faddish, and it's not motivated and done well.
- Between Issues #39-42, she's consistent to Ditko Gwen but made more attractive and nicer (also happens to Harry Osborn).
- From Issues #43-50, she's kind of a sassy girl who's trying to Out-MJ'ing MJ which again creates problems because Lee clearly forgot (or didn't care) that Ditko not ten issues before wrote her as a jackass boy crazy serial dater who was a beauty-queen. If anything Romita's MJ was Ditko-Gwen who was a nice girl, pleasant company, and smiled a lot (and Mary Jane truly does have the best smile in comics)...Flash, Harry and Peter knew this, but they are acting as if Gwen showing this side of her is a new thing, and from this people got this idea that Gwen was "the good girl" or "the Betty" to MJ's Veronica which is the most absurd misreading imaginable.
- Then #51-90: Daddy's Girl Gwen. You have George Stacy (an excellent supporting character) and basically Gwen is a third wheel in Peter's surrogate dad relationship to George, who's also a cop who's a Spidey fan. In this period, Gwen kisses the ground Peter walks on, but she hates Spider-Man and parrots Jameson's words. Peter in one of his moods tries to confess to his friends that he's Spider-Man but Gwen's reaction is so hysterical and over-the-top that he swears off ever telling her (ASM#87). Then George Stacy dies and she flies to London.
- #91-110 or so, Gwen briefly becomes some bikini model because why not. Gwen gets angry at one point and insults Aunt May for smothering Peter (which depending on how you look at it, is either deserved based on how fans see May as this Millstone on Peter's neck or overly jerky when seen in context...I lean to the latter).
- #110-120 - Gwen is basically Peter's arm candy.

3) Saint Gwen; Basically Gwen Stacy after she died. She's made this saint, everyone says she was perfect, writers periodically think she was the one, that Peter would just surely have married her had things not been the case. When one, there's the big hurdle of the fact that she HATED Spider-Man. A hurdle that people assume that she's just gonna get over when ASM#87 before George's death clearly shows that the idea sent her into hysterics. There's also the hurdle that Peter lied to her repeatedly in that relationship, didn't trust her with his secret...which again it's unlikely she believable accepts. Saint Gwen is useful only when she serves as a foil for MJ, her insecurity about Peter, about growing up poor and so on. It makes Mary Jane a more vulnerable and interesting character. But again it's got no reality to it.

4) Sins' Past: Gwen is babymama to Norman Osborn, her future murderer. 'Nuff said.

5) Ultimate Gwen Stacy: Punk badass gothic girl who ultimately unexpectedly becomes adopted by Aunt May and is basically Peter's step-sister, and close friend to Mary Jane. She and Peter weren't dating when she briefly died at Carnage's hands, and then comes back as clone-but-not-really-as-good-as-the-real-thing. And then she and Peter date, which comes across as incest-y and is called out as so by others. Relationship ends and she's back to sister figure. This version of Gwen ultimately inspired Spider-Gwen I think.

6) Emma Stone's Gwen: Basically Mary Jane Watson, classical and ultimate, mixed with Jane Foster's smarts. Since she's Peter's confidant (which was MJ), partner and sidekick (Ultimate MJ), and doesn't blame him for her father's death (which to me is a major character assassination of Gwen...that is one of her most defining elements). And yes, very much a Mary Sue...whose death by the way made zero sense in the movie. The only reason her comics counterpart got whacked is to move MJ into Peter's life.

7) Spider-Gwen: Ultimate Gwen with a mix of Emma Stone Gwen, except she's a hero. Not a love-interest to Peter, not tied to him, and is basically younger than main Peter, and is now a sorta love interest for Miles Morales.



My Gwen Rankings:
1) Ditko Gwen
2) Spider-Gwen
3) Ultimate Gwen

Those three are the only Gwens who aren't real love interests and for the most part not-in-relationship-with Peter. I think her characterization is best when she and Peter aren't together. Peter maker her boring, and she makes Peter annoying and stupid. They are a super bland couple. I don't think she should have died, or she had to die for Peter and MJ to be together (as Bendis proved).

Hah, talk about good timing, lately I've been thinking about how grossly inconsistent Gwen was as a character even in the original run, and I was about to about to ask more about other changes she got, but you answered a day before I asked lol.

Honestly, with Gwen getting her personality changed to first become a tamer MJ, MJ herself getting some weird haircut, it honestly seems like she was an early Carlie somewhat, with the personality being made around to be Peter's "perfect" girlfriend and other characters cheering for her to be his girlfriend, however Carlie is different in the sense that as far as I've seen, she was more consistent, and had more on the informed attributes, honestly I wonder how many people would detest Gwen if they truly knew who she really was, I was never really interested in her, but once I noticed those inconsistencies, I can barely call her a character...

I'll say that I only somewhat agree with Ditko Gwen being above the rest, however, I think that version is a bad character anyways, she was basicaly Liz 2.0 who kept her bitchy attitude while also liking Peter (Since Liz did stop being as bitchy with him once she got that crush on him), and like most Ditko era douchebags, she barely has good traits, but hey, she was her own character back then, more than what we can say of the rest...

[eratas123]

At this point I think most fans, or at least new ones, know her more as Spider-Gwen than they do as Peter's non-powered dead girlfriend, especially since Ghost Spider's staying power only seems to stronger and stronger the more media she appears in. Spider-Verse has probably solidified her given her strong role and the personality that gelled well with many viewers...even though Spider-Verse Gwen is again different from normal Spider-Gwen. SV Gwen is notably more level headed, mature and task oriented than the often clumsy and flat footed comics Spider-Gwen. Guessing they'll shift comics Gwen around to an extent so she can match that.

Anyway, for Spider-Gwen readers, a question: did Venom just bring her back to he pre-depower state or did it give her extra abilities like 616 Venom does? The wiki is annoyingly vague.