Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Goldrake]

In general I think most solo comic titles are not doing that well at all. If you look at the top graphic novels for April batman has 12 books in the top 20 but there are no other solo titles from DC or Marvel. Also in amazon.com top Graphic Novels for May 7 2021 same thing, mostly Batman. I don't believe I saw one solo title from DC or Marvel other than Batman. So sales are not that good across the board.

Cyborg has proven to be a good initial seller. His first solo ongoing written by David Walker had orders above 50,000 for the first issue. Cyborg Rebirth one shot had orders over 60,000. Cyborg Rebirth ongoing series for issue # 1 had orders for above 50,000. And the DCeased series sold like gangbusters. So initially his series sold well but like every other title sales wan as time goes on. I believe that Cyborg was a victim of the comicsgate movement that targeted all Black Superheroes at the time. That along with online fans complains about him replacing Martian Manhunter and not having any connections with the New Teen titans probably hurt sales. But poor sales did not stop DC from publishing the recent Dial H for Heroes and the Wonder Twins comic. Initially it was only going to be a 6 issue limited series for both titles but they expanded it to another 6 issues making it a 12 issue maxi-series despite having very poor sales. sales for the Wonder Twins and Dial H for Heroes # 6 was down to about only 12-10 K copies ordered before DC decided to renew it for another 6 issues. So sales are not the end all when it comes to why a series moves forward or not. But it is a major factor and I do understand why the sales for Cyborg was bad when it return for a second run with Marv Wolfman because the solicitation copy was terrible and if you read Cyborg # 21 you can see that the story changed. But DC cancelled Cyborg with issue # 23 in the middle of a storyline and did not continue it in a trade paperback. To my knowledge this has not happen before in the history of comics.

Books that go under 20k get cancelled - starting out well in Rebirth does not mean anything, its retailers over ordering - the real proof of the pudding comes when months later the title should stabilize and remain constant in a sales bracket. Cyborg kept dropping, went lower than 20k and even 10k. As for other titles you mention depends on what are the expectations of DC and what limit its gives them to be profitable.
But the reason for Cyborg was extremely low sales, it was a miracle that it was kept ongoing to issue 23. Probably not even worth the paper it was printed on if you take in consideration the expenses to have a creative team to publish it.
If Cyborg was a victim of what you say than why black readers did not prop him? We keep hearing that we need diversity etc and when there are, you don't support them?

However the real reason with Cyborg was what happened to other historic DC characters like Green Arrow, Hawkman, SuperGirl and Aquaman, low sales below 20k you get cancelled. Most often its the quality of the runs and no other factor that leads to that. That said, if creative teams are not up to standard don't expect the likes of cyborg etc to do well.

[abetterday]

i think that Cyborg as a concept itself deserves another shot because we live in a modern world/country where a significant amount of people have access to technology/the internet of all things so he is incredibly relevant. I think that DC could definitely do better as a business and if they did then they would not have to worry about the company going under or closing. a significant amount of fans want Cyborg to change. they want Cyborg to look more human because they have a general knowledge of the new technological enhancements such as nano technology that would allow Cyborg to be a cyborg without looking like a robot or a half man half robot. The current Batgirl is now a soft robot. It seems that her series is doing a 'cyborg in the city' do over for her as she is connected to her part of gotham with the cybernetic technology that she has woven in a track suit that she now uses as a costume. This is a do over that I'm sure would be welcomed by many Cyborg fans.

I doubt that most comic characters today can debut with 60-50K copies ordered. This should tell DC to put a fan favorite writer on board to help substain a Cyborg series over a long period of time. But since DC are now experimenting with short 6 mini-series I would think that green lighting a Cyborg mini-series would have been no problem.

It would be good if DC kind of innovate the way that they publish books and introduce and re-imagine new and existing characters along with new graphic novel genres categories.

A new sleek minimalist designed Cyborg would be a great seller. Cyborg should be re-introduced as an equal to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman since he is like Geoff Johns said, is the hero for the modern age.

[JorgeJ77]

i think that Cyborg as a concept itself deserves another shot because we live in a modern world/country where a significant amount of people have access to technology/the internet of all things so he is incredibly relevant. I think that DC could definitely do better as a business and if they did then they would not have to worry about the company going under or closing. a significant amount of fans want Cyborg to change. they want Cyborg to look more human because they have a general knowledge of the new technological enhancements such as nano technology that would allow Cyborg to be a cyborg without looking like a robot or a half man half robot. The current Batgirl is now a soft robot. It seems that her series is doing a 'cyborg in the city' do over for her as she is connected to her part of gotham with the cybernetic technology that she has woven in a track suit that she now uses as a costume. This is a do over that I'm sure would be welcomed by many Cyborg fans.

I doubt that most comic characters today can debut with 60-50K copies ordered. This should tell DC to put a fan favorite writer on board to help substain a Cyborg series over a long period of time. But since DC are now experimenting with short 6 mini-series I would think that green lighting a Cyborg mini-series would have been no problem.

It would be good if DC kind of innovate the way that they publish books and introduce and re-imagine new and existing characters along with new graphic novel genres categories.

A new sleek minimalist designed Cyborg would be a great seller. Cyborg should be re-introduced as an equal to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman since he is like Geoff Johns said, is the hero for the modern age.

Yeah, but that's never happening.

[Goldrake]

i think that Cyborg as a concept itself deserves another shot because we live in a modern world/country where a significant amount of people have access to technology/the internet of all things so he is incredibly relevant. I think that DC could definitely do better as a business and if they did then they would not have to worry about the company going under or closing. a significant amount of fans want Cyborg to change. they want Cyborg to look more human because they have a general knowledge of the new technological enhancements such as nano technology that would allow Cyborg to be a cyborg without looking like a robot or a half man half robot. The current Batgirl is now a soft robot. It seems that her series is doing a 'cyborg in the city' do over for her as she is connected to her part of gotham with the cybernetic technology that she has woven in a track suit that she now uses as a costume. This is a do over that I'm sure would be welcomed by many Cyborg fans.

I doubt that most comic characters today can debut with 60-50K copies ordered. This should tell DC to put a fan favorite writer on board to help substain a Cyborg series over a long period of time. But since DC are now experimenting with short 6 mini-series I would think that green lighting a Cyborg mini-series would have been no problem.

It would be good if DC kind of innovate the way that they publish books and introduce and re-imagine new and existing characters along with new graphic novel genres categories.

A new sleek minimalist designed Cyborg would be a great seller. Cyborg should be re-introduced as an equal to Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman since he is like Geoff Johns said, is the hero for the modern age.

There are lots of characters that can debut at 60k even higher than that. First issues do get those numbers and higher. Harley Quinn starts even higher but usually ends above drop zone.

Without an A List writer Cyborg series would not survive unfortunately and that does not apply only to him. Is DC ready to do that? Can give you the answer, NO.

However You made valid points but all ends back to the level of creative teams. Useless having a book that will end canceled within few issues. Either they give the talent or don't even bother. You must also consider that maybe Johns championed and saw potential in him, but Johns is not more that involved in DC. Others may have different views or neither John's vision for characters. I don't see any writer of Johns level on the horizon at DC

That cyborg is equal to Superman, batman, WW, Aquaman, Flash etc however I don't agree, honestly its far fetched. But that his standing should be improved I agree 100%

[abetterday]

I have not seen any solo DC titles (outside of the Batman family) that debuted with 60K copies order in recent years. Black Lightning Cold Dead Hands debuted with only 30K plus copies ordered

[skyvolt2000]

Cyborg was cancelled for low sales in comics not because of the movie bombed. It was a miracle that he arrived at issue 20 with those sales.
It was cancelled for that reason Nothing special that doesn't happen to other characters. Why should he be treated differently?

12/2016: Cyborg #6 -- 21,287 (- 17.4%)
12/2016: Cyborg #7 -- 19,788 (- 7.0%)
01/2017: Cyborg #8 -- 18,562 (- 6.2%)
02/2017: Cyborg #9 -- 16,274 (- 12.3%)
03/2017: Cyborg #10 -- 14,977 (- 8.0%)
04/2017: Cyborg #11 -- 13,677 (- 8.7%)
05/2017: Cyborg #12 -- 12,929 (- 5.5%)
06/2017: Cyborg #13 -- 12,076 (- 6.6%)
07/2017: Cyborg #14 -- 11,536 (- 4.5%)
08/2017: Cyborg #15 -- 10,949 (- 5.1%)
09/2017: Cyborg #16 -- 10,385 (- 5.2%)
10/2017: Cyborg #17 -- 9,945 (- 4.2%)
11/2017: Cyborg #18 -- 10,176 (+ 2.3%)
12/2017: Cyborg #19 -- 8,970 (- 11.9%)
01/2018: Cyborg #20 -- 8,699 (- 3.0%)

David Walker's run got derailed by the EDITOR (a BLACK MAN who also ruined New 52 Static Shock's run). Walker left and went to Image where Bitter Root by him is doing better than Cyborg and later Bendis bought him back for Naomi.

Rebirth Cyborg had John Sempter Jr-a VETERAN writer of animated shows including Superfriends (with Cyborg), Spider-Man (Peter Parker) and Static Shock.

In both cases DC wanted man versus machine stories. The very stories that many Cyborg and black comic book fans don't want. Because there is more to Cyborg than that.

The writers nor artist were the issue. It was the editor and probably higher up wanted Cyborg to forever be about man versus machine.

Here is another nugget about Rebirth Cyborg run

It took Sam Wilson Cap America's run to hit issue 19 before he sniffed below 20. Miles Morales has YET to have a run sniff below 20K. Coates first Black Panther run ended in the 24Ks.

To my knowledge this has not happen before in the history of comics.

It has happened.

Bankshot at Dark Horse saw it's last issue axed. The writer nor artist was paid for that book. 5 years later we are now seeing the trade with a complete issue 5.

If Cyborg was a victim of what you say than why black readers did not prop him? We keep hearing that we need diversity etc and when there are, you don't support them?

The books still have to be GOOD. Also the book still has to be stocked at a store.

low sales below 20k you get cancelled

Moon Girl and others have lasted beyond that. Black Panther just finished a run where he was below 20K for 10 straight issues.

[Goldrake]

I have not seen any solo DC titles (outside of the Batman family) that debuted with 60K copies order in recent years. Black Lightning Cold Dead Hands debuted with only 30K plus copies ordered

06/2016: Superman #1 -- 115,918
06/2016: Flash #1 -- 110,431
06/2016: Wonder Woman #1 -- 118,511
06/2016: Aquaman #1 -- 84,745
06/2016: Green Lanterns #1 -- 93,401
11/2018: The Green Lantern #1 -- 113,651
07/2018: Superman #1 -- 133,703
Besides few books have got re-numbering from the historic titles or got a relaunch in last years. From those in last March we have no numbers yet.

[abetterday]

I was actually referring to b- c level characters like Hawkman or Deathstroke. I guess I should have made myself clear. The recent Hawkman # 1 did fairly well from want I remember with about 40K copies ordered. But still fairly short of Cyborg's numbers. I thought that the recent Hawkman series was pretty good. It resolved his continuity issues very well. I was kind of disappointed that they closed the door on that concept with the last issue. I would have preferred him on the Justice League after his series ended. The characters that you listed have all had high profiled writers assigned to them consistently to give them a push. Grant Morrison has written for Superman, WW, Green Lantern, and the Flash. But not for Cyborg. I would love to see a Grant Morrison Cyborg series but I'm not sure Morrison like Cyborg or any other Black Superheroes other than President Superman.

[Goldrake]

I was actually referring to b- c level characters like Hawkman or Deathstroke. I guess I should have made myself clear. The recent Hawkman # 1 did fairly well from want I remember with about 40K copies ordered. But still fairly short of Cyborg's numbers. I thought that the recent Hawkman series was pretty good. It resolved his continuity issues very well. I was kind of disappointed that they closed the door on that concept with the last issue. I would have preferred him on the Justice League after his series ended. The characters that you listed have all had high profiled writers assigned to them consistently to give them a push. Grant Morrison has written for Superman, WW, Green Lantern, and the Flash. But not for Cyborg. I would love to see a Grant Morrison Cyborg series but I'm not sure Morrison like Cyborg or any other Black Superheroes other than President Superman.

Doubt DC will spare talent on certain characters, unfortunately. As for Hawkman agreed that it was a very good run, but DC never promoted that run and never had a chance to succeed. However that he debuted with less sales than cyborg is due to the fact that the later benefitted from the buzz of Rebirth, that created huge enthusiasm throughout all DC fans and retailers. While Hawkman was launched in 2018.

With regards to the characters I mentioned that got some high profile writers some yes, others no, see Aquaman for example. However you have also to take in consideration the popularity of the characters, with all due respect to Cyborg, you can't compare his with Flash(although in the movie cyborg comes out better, due to a ridiculous Ezra) or Green Lantern. Neither he has the same number of fans.

The new policy at DC seems to be new talent instead of A list writers. Probably to cut costs. That means certain books will struggle. Sales are determined by the quality of the run therefore the scribe and the popularity of the character. Having one of these requirements can keep the book afloat at least for a couple of years. Having none of those requirements a book can't survive. An A List writer is fundamental for a character who is not that popular.

[Rac7d*]

I did begin to forget
What else is he planning to do or drop

https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/statu...520259074?s=21

[The Darknight Detective]

I did begin to forget
What else is he planning to do or drop

https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/statu...520259074?s=21

Well, does he really need to drop anything more when every industry professional is encouraging him to stay the course?

[Robotman]

I really wouldn’t be surprised if this whole thing had at least a small hand in Cyborg’s comic book push coming to an end. He’s now just buried in the background of Titans Academy.

[Rac7d*]

Well, does he really need to drop anything more when every industry professional is encouraging him to stay the course?

But are they hiring him?

[Primal Slayer]

Is it going to be 2025 and he's still sending out these tweets? These industry professionals....they probably just want the competition out. But we've been there, we've done the investigation, nothing that's been revealed about those remaining is that dire that we need to continue with it.

[The Darknight Detective]

But are they hiring him?

It doesn't appear so at the moment and probably for quite a while.