Game of Thrones

[CRaymond]

This petition and others like them are pointless and just make fans of these movies/shows look terribly childish.

Seconded. I'd clearly do things differently, but Denaerys's razing of KL is definitely a keeper. I'd just make her dialog and perspective a lot clearer. Protagonists with reprehensible behavior and actions is fine. Once Jon refused her, she knew there was no hope for a peaceful future. She needed the history books to see her destructive capacities, and the battle was over WAY too quickly for that.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I hate to be "that guy," but if anyone thinks George R.R. Martin won't have Daenrys burn down King's Landing with Drogon, setting fire to soldiers and civilians alike, then you're in for a rude awakening. Even though we definitely argue that D&D botched the execution of Dany's heel turn, not only did GRRM plant the seeds early on in the books, it's a twist that totally aligns with A Song of Ice and Fire's stance against war, monarchy, and absolute power.



Exactly! Which is why what she did is so horrific. She's arbitrarily deciding who's guilty and innocent based entirely upon how much they're willing to "bend the knee" to her. Her entire approach to ruling has always been "You're either with me or against me. You either join me or die. You either reconcognize me as your true queen, or it's fire and blood." We and her followers excused what otherwise sounds very much like the actions of villain because we and her followers convinced ourselves that Dany's enemies "deserved it." But the entire point George R.R. Martin and Game of Thrones is making is that no one "deserves it."

I'm also guessing during the finale, if Tyrion or Davos or Jon calls her on burning thousands of innocent civilians, she'll not only rationalize it with the whole, "They had their chance to rebel against Cersei long before I arrived," she may also argue that the deaths of countless women and children are on Cersei's hands because she decided to use them as human shields. She may even say that, by burning King's Landing, she now ensured that no one will dare stand against her or betray her--because now they know what will happen if they do. And if this sounds eerily familiar to real-life leaders, that's also the point.

Is it totally in character for GRRM to have Dani forget about Euron's teleporting stealth ships of DOOM? asking for a friend.

[Gorthon616]

I hate to be "that guy," but if anyone thinks George R.R. Martin won't have Daenrys burn down King's Landing with Drogon, setting fire to soldiers and civilians alike, then you're in for a rude awakening. Even though we definitely argue that D&D botched the execution of Dany's heel turn, not only did GRRM plant the seeds early on in the books, it's a twist that totally aligns with A Song of Ice and Fire's stance against war, monarchy, and absolute power.

I don't really get into speculation on these things, and when I do it generally has no impact on my enjoyment (i.e. whether stories go the way i want/expect them to or not is neither a good or bad thing).

This really to me has nothing to do with the concept of Dany's heel turn, just the execution. "Planting the seeds" but then jumping to a "twist" is severely lacking in the connective tissue that bridges from the premise to the delivery.

[Theleviathan]

Y'all are too pessimistic about Winds of Winter. It definitely has a bigger chance of being released. We're definitely seeing it before 2025, if we don't have by then I'll agree with everyone.

I think it will get released. I just don't think it will matter. People read it expecting George to get from A to Z and he'll barely get from A to B.

He's stuck - that's the far bigger problem than his age.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I don't really get into speculation on these things, and when I do it generally has no impact on my enjoyment (i.e. whether stories go the way i want/expect them to or not is neither a good or bad thing).

This really to me has nothing to do with the concept of Dany's heel turn, just the execution. "Planting the seeds" but then jumping to a "twist" is severely lacking in the connective tissue that bridges from the premise to the delivery.

Also foreshadowing isn't character development.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I think it will get released. I just don't think it will matter. People read it expecting George to get from A to Z and he'll barely get from A to B.

He's stuck - that's the far bigger problem than his age.

Each writer is different, I write myself in my spare time. I've never gotten stuck, but I'd imagine I wouldn't take that long. But there's always ideas floating in my head. I think GRRM might be suffering from a severe case of feature creep. But you know for authors instead of game developers.

[Theleviathan]

Each writer is different, I write myself in my spare time. I've never gotten stuck, but I'd imagine I wouldn't take that long. But there's always ideas floating in my head. I think GRRM might be suffering from a severe case of feature creep. But you know for authors instead of game developers.

I agree, but that feature creep is what has him stuck. He can't both find his path and wrestle all the creep back in control seamlessly.

He let his garden get overgrown and now he can't hack through the jungle to find the river.

I suspect winds of winter will be a grinding book to read. Hell, the preview chapters are pretty indicative of that.

[PwrdOn]

I agree, but that feature creep is what has him stuck. He can't both find his path and wrestle all the creep back in control seamlessly.

He let his garden get overgrown and now he can't hack through the jungle to find the river.

I suspect winds of winter will be a grinding book to read. Hell, the preview chapters are pretty indicative of that.

Well GRRM lost the chance to present readers with a fresh and riveting story with all these delays, now whenever the book does eventually come out all that anyone will be able to do is compare it to what happened in the show and argue over which one was better. And frankly I don't know how much of an audience will even be left when Winds of Winter finally does come out. Most of the show fans will have moved on to other things, and I imagine plenty of book fans will have gotten sick and tired of waiting and just checked out, not to mention all the fans who lost interest in the series entirely because of the mishandling of the last season. I'm sure the book will still sell well, but I doubt it will be the kind of cultural moment that it could have been had it come out a few years earlier.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I agree, but that feature creep is what has him stuck. He can't both find his path and wrestle all the creep back in control seamlessly.

He let his garden get overgrown and now he can't hack through the jungle to find the river.

I suspect winds of winter will be a grinding book to read. Hell, the preview chapters are pretty indicative of that.

Well GRRM lost the chance to present readers with a fresh and riveting story with all these delays, now whenever the book does eventually come out all that anyone will be able to do is compare it to what happened in the show and argue over which one was better. And frankly I don't know how much of an audience will even be left when Winds of Winter finally does come out. Most of the show fans will have moved on to other things, and I imagine plenty of book fans will have gotten sick and tired of waiting and just checked out, not to mention all the fans who lost interest in the series entirely because of the mishandling of the last season. I'm sure the book will still sell well, but I doubt it will be the kind of cultural moment that it could have been had it come out a few years earlier.

I can agree with all that. I think GoT will end up like another LOST, which I predicted around season 6. I have no idea how the books will be remembered. People seem to only like the first 3.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Each writer is different, I write myself in my spare time. I've never gotten stuck, but I'd imagine I wouldn't take that long. But there's always ideas floating in my head. I think GRRM might be suffering from a severe case of feature creep. But you know for authors instead of game developers.

What I do is I keep notes lol. I find that helps me stay on track.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Is it totally in character for GRRM to have Dani forget about Euron's teleporting stealth ships of DOOM? asking for a friend.

In the books Euron has a magic horn that's supposed to screw with dragons. Almost 100% positive that plays a role. Also Euron is heavily implied to be a magic user so it wouldn't be out of the realm for his ships to appear out of a fog or storm or something

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Also foreshadowing isn't character development.

Dany saying a bunch of times she has a desire to burn cities is definitly part of her character though. That can be swept aside as mere forshadowing.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I can agree with all that. I think GoT will end up like another LOST, which I predicted around season 6. I have no idea how the books will be remembered. People seem to only like the first 3.

Idk if it will be like LOST. LOST's ending was a total crappy cop out that was effectively a weird none ending. GOT will have a viable ending. It just depends on whether people like it or not. I don't even know if it will be a Dexter. Dexter was pretty much a pointless show with no direction for the entire last half of the series.

I think it will be closer to a Sopranos where people were kinda let down by the last season but it was divisive enough that it will have defenders and detractors.

[motherofpearl1]

I actually see a sequel some time in the future, once they get the funding again.

[stillanerd]

Is it totally in character for GRRM to have Dani forget about Euron's teleporting stealth ships of DOOM? asking for a friend.

LOL! No, that's definitely D&D's bad writing. Besides, everything involving show Euron "Jack Sparrow" Greyjoy sucks. Even I'm not defending that bull**** fight between him and Jamie in the last episode when all common sense says that show Euron should've been BBQed by Drogon.

I don't really get into speculation on these things, and when I do it generally has no impact on my enjoyment (i.e. whether stories go the way i want/expect them to or not is neither a good or bad thing).

This really to me has nothing to do with the concept of Dany's heel turn, just the execution. "Planting the seeds" but then jumping to a "twist" is severely lacking in the connective tissue that bridges from the premise to the delivery.

No argument from me on that front. With only GRRM's outline and no new books, the show is moving these characters as if they're pieces on a board game down a predetermined path.

Also foreshadowing isn't character development.

Yep.

In the books Euron has a magic horn that's supposed to screw with dragons. Almost 100% positive that plays a role. Also Euron is heavily implied to be a magic user so it wouldn't be out of the realm for his ships to appear out of a fog or storm or something

Not to mention he has Valerian steel armor, dabbles in blood magic, and, perhaps, has actually been to old Valeria (the birthplace of dragons and the Targaryens come from). Book Euron is a scary, sadistic, evil badass that makes show Euron look like a reject from the Renaissance Fair. Although, one podcast stated that show Euron is closer to Victarion Greyjoy than Euron, which actually makes a lot of sense.