Would Superman actually be the Most powerful DC hero if....?

[SuperX]

Besides Marvel how many superman knockoffs in every comic company? And how many are the most powerful in their comic universe? I'll answer thst, all of them, but superman, the actual guy they are derived from can't be,,,, OK folks.

[Rightoya]

I guess all of the humans without any powers in the comics are the most disrespected of them all.

I don't get it?

Wonder Woman being equally powerful as Superman per Marston's intentions is even further decades back, so by your logic shouldn't that be dismissed as well?

Wonder Woman is currently a cosmical Spectre like being that turned herself into a viking, and i didn't know that we were talking about Shazam's origin, which makes your comparison with Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter more than odd?

Early post-Crisis days gave Wonder Woman flight, but she was otherwise as powerful as she was before. It's just that characters like Superman and Mongul got scaled down compared to what they were before

Which happened with Wonder Woman way earlier already, barring the true flight.

, but the power creep set in again anyway. Captain Marvel got scaled down too, and the fact that it took blowing up the shared universe and stapling it back together again instead of natural story progression should say something.

And what should that say?

It's weird that Superman being the most powerful but otherwise not impacting the stories of other characters in any significant way (because he isn't part of their narratives) is "disrespectful".

Like just existing is an insult

I am pretty sure i have mentioned the shared verse multiple times already, Superman could even be more powerful than the creator god itself in his own verse, and without notable interactions between the superheroes would there be no need for a shared verse anyway.

[Rightoya]

Besides Marvel how many superman knockoffs in every comic company? And how many are the most powerful in their comic universe? I'll answer thst, all of them, but superman, the actual guy they are derived from can't be,,,, OK folks.

Plutonian, Supreme and with manga All Might, who else?

[SiegePerilous02]

Wonder Woman is currently a cosmical Spectre like being that turned herself into a viking, and i didn't know that we were talking about Shazam's origin, which makes your comparison with Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter more than odd?

You said that Captain Marvel's Pre-Crisis status as being equal to Superman (to the point where it was unclear who was more powerful and they arm wrestled for hours without a clear winner) was so long ago it shouldn't count. Marston's plans for Wonder Woman were even further back, so if you want to play that game, it shouldn't count either.

What does the current sphere of the Gods arc have to do with anything? It's clearly meant to be temporary, and she isn't even at full power there anyway. She can't fly and isn't as strong or invulnerable there, so probably isn't the best example to use.

Which happened with Wonder Woman way earlier already, barring the true flight.

That's arguable, as she seems as powerful in the Silver Age as she was before, she just got the gliding on air currents thing.

We also have her powers not being consistent in the Golden Age anyway (same with all heroes). Non-powered Priscilla Rich is somehow able to out run her for example despite her being "swifter than Mercury."

And what should that say?

That they had to break the universe and smoosh it back together and nerf Superman and CM to get the result you want?

I am pretty sure i have mentioned the shared verse multiple times already, Superman could even be more powerful than the creator god itself in his own verse, and without notable interactions between the superheroes would there be no need for a shared verse anyway.

Except we had a shared universe that wasn't nearly as crossover heavy as it is now with Superman as #1, and it wasn't really detrimental to anybody. It's creating a mountain out of an ant hill.

I don't get it?

It's an exaggeration on how Superman being the strongest makes everyone else's stories meaningless. No story matters as long as Clark is somewhere out in the universe, doing things and not interacting with any other narrative on the regular.

It's a fairly ridiculous stance.

[Rightoya]

You said that Captain Marvel's Pre-Crisis status as being equal to Superman (to the point where it was unclear who was more powerful and they arm wrestled for hours without a clear winner) was so long ago it shouldn't count. Marston's plans for Wonder Woman were even further back, so if you want to play that game, it shouldn't count either.

But i was talking about post crisis, not about pre modern versions.

What does the current sphere of the Gods arc have to do with anything? It's clearly meant to be temporary, and she isn't even at full power there anyway. She can't fly and isn't as strong or invulnerable there, so probably isn't the best example to use.

She is clearly more powerful than all the other typical comparisons, and i doubt anyone else would have their powers in Vallhala, but why did you find it meaningful that Shazam had at 1 point in the past more even comparisons with Superman than Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter?

That's arguable, as she seems as powerful in the Silver Age as she was before, she just got the gliding on air currents thing.

I don't think that is arguable at all considering a certain very silly decision of DC in the Silver Age, and Wonder Woman being mostly excluded from the power creep in that era

We also have her powers not being consistent in the Golden Age anyway (same with all heroes). Non-powered Priscilla Rich is somehow able to out run her for example despite her being "swifter than Mercury."

I don't remember any era before the first crisis where consistence was ever a thing?

That they had to break the universe and smoosh it back together and nerf Superman and CM to get the result you want?

In terms of George Perez Wonder Woman being a thing maybe, but i don't remember asking for any nerfs, or that i got any results i wanted back then shortly before i got born.

Except we had a shared universe that wasn't nearly as crossover heavy as it is now with Superman as #1, and it wasn't really detrimental to anybody. It's creating a mountain out of an ant hill.

About what era are you talking exactly?

It's an exaggeration on how Superman being the strongest makes everyone else's stories meaningless. No story matters as long as Clark is somewhere out in the universe, doing things and not interacting with any other narrative on the regular.

It's a fairly ridiculous stance.

I still don't see a reason for a shared verse, seemingly without a Justice League where Superman just stays away from the other superheroes, so that he can be the most powerful without negatively affecting them?

And him being clearly superior to Wonder Woman or Shazam, kind of makes them meaningless, and is his whole odd Superiorman idea.

[Gitagon]

Best Superman

1. Speed - should be the 2nd fastest in the League only 2nd to Flash however I dislike when the speed difference is massive. It should be marginal at best.

2. Physical Strength - strongest in the League. Characters like Wonder Woman, Shazam and Martian Manhunter should be slightly weaker than him. I don't like Superman "bullying" Wonder Woman, Snyder-cut style. I prefer for the difference in their strength to be like the realistic difference of a human male Clark's size compared to a human female of Diana's size.

3. Skill - not surprisingly, I prefer my Superman skilled. He's been on the JL for 10+ years by now. Bruce Wayne is literally his BFF. He's on the team with Wonder Woman. He's basically met like all DC martial artists. Fought in alien martial arts tournaments like War World. Learned Kryptonian martial arts. He should not be a scrub in h-to-h. Considering all the experience + his intellect and photographic memory, he should at least be in DC high level martial artists ranks.

4. Weaknesses - never been a fan of them. Most writers don't even differentiate them. Whether its red solar lamps, numerous kryptonite types and magic, Superman has like 10 weaknesses at this point. Just keep Kryptonite and keep the rest away. And Kryptonite itself should act as a gradual poison not instant depowerment.

Evidently, I've seen my version of ideal Superman power level in DC many times but I wish it was more consistent.

[OopsIdiditagain]

It's an exaggeration on how Superman being the strongest makes everyone else's stories meaningless. No story matters as long as Clark is somewhere out in the universe, doing things and not interacting with any other narrative on the regular.

It's a fairly ridiculous stance.

If Superman being the strongest includes downplaying other character's strengths like the Flash's to make him look better then it's not completely ridiculous.

[The Darknight Detective]

If Superman being the strongest includes downplaying other character's strengths like the Flash's to make him look better then it's not completely ridiculous.

But those characters were created that way, so how can there be any disrespect? I can understand disrespecting fans of a character (Hal as Parallax, i.e.), but having Superman as the most powerful since his inception is just not the same, IMO.

[NaVi]

The Amazon's have advanced technology too in the comic books.

So the Amazons are a thousand times better warriors than the Kryptonians and they are just as smart. that they have technology does not mean that they are equal to the kryptonians, if ww is a thousand times more skilled for being an amazon, superman would have to be a thousand times more intelligent for being a kryptonian.

[NaVi]

in BvS ww I get to damage doomsday, she is the one that bears the weight of the combat, I suppose that is a lack of respect towards superman and all the rest of dc. in JL (snyder) flash is the only one that survives and they are fast traveling in time, I guess it is also a lack of respect towards superman and the rest of the dc universe.

[NaVi]

If for flash to be the fastest you have to minimize superman, it's ridiculous.

[OopsIdiditagain]

If for flash to be the fastest you have to minimize superman, it's ridiculous.

The Flash isn't the fastest because they minimized Superman, he just got faster every time a new character took the mantle.

But those characters were created that way, so how can there be any disrespect? I can understand disrespecting fans of a character (Hal as Parallax, i.e.), but having Superman as the most powerful since his inception is just not the same, IMO.

The DC universe is not the same as it was when it was created.

[I'm a Fish]

in BvS ww I get to damage doomsday, she is the one that bears the weight of the combat, I suppose that is a lack of respect towards superman and all the rest of dc. in JL (snyder) flash is the only one that survives and they are fast traveling in time, I guess it is also a lack of respect towards superman and the rest of the dc universe.

In BvS, Superman almost took Doomsday out himself until the government decided to be dumb and nuke them both.

[The Darknight Detective]

The DC universe is not the same as it was when it was created.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Clark was the most powerful during the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s... all the way up to now. Now let me be clear here: if DC wanted to change the status quo, fine. DC is in charge of the universe, not me. My only role is to buy their product or not based on the quality of their stories. Having said that, there are more Superman fans out there that will be annoyed by this than fans of other characters benefiting from this. Therefore, why would DC want to change the status quo?

[OopsIdiditagain]

True, but that doesn't change the fact that Clark was the most powerful during the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s... all the way up to now. Now let me be clear here: if DC wanted to change the status quo, fine. DC is in charge of the universe, not me. My only role is to buy their product or not based on the quality of their stories. Having said that, there are more Superman fans out there that will be annoyed by this than fans of other characters benefiting from this.

He's still a powerhouse, just not the fastest. Anyone annoyed with the Flash being faster than Superman's must've been under a rock for a few decades.

Therefore, why would DC want to change the status quo?

Same reason DC made Jon Kent, story progression and appealing to different fans.