Stephen Strange: Doctor Strange Appreciation 2021

[DigiCom]

Interesting. I haven't looked into the exact dates, but there seems to be alot of the 'mystic orient' trope going on even before Lost Horizon. I found this book, Magic in Mystery in Tibet by Madame Alexandra David-Neal that was published in the 1920s that sounds like it could have inspired a few stories.



https://www.weirdprovidence.org/stor..._in_Tibet.html

It's certainly possible. A 19th-century occultist named Helena Blavatsky famously claimed she learned from "Masters of Ancient Wisdom" in Tibet.

Any or all of these could have inspired Lee & Ditko.

I can’t help but feel like there’s something huge magic related coming. Between the Last Annihilation and Dormammu, the Darkhold, and the Death of Doctor Strange…are they setting up Doom as the new Sorcerer Supreme? Whoever they put in charge, I hope it’s not Aaron. I’m burned out on his mediocrity.

It's certainly possible, but given current societal trends, I think it more likely they'll go for someone young, possibly Wiccan or a new character. I also think said Supreme will last just long enough for Strange to come back in time for the movie, but I'm a huge cynic these days.

[Clea]

It's certainly possible. A 19th-century occultist named Helena Blavatsky famously claimed she learned from "Masters of Ancient Wisdom" in Tibet.

Any or all of these could have inspired Lee & Ditko.



It's certainly possible, but given current societal trends, I think it more likely they'll go for someone young, possibly Wiccan or a new character. I also think said Supreme will last just long enough for Strange to come back in time for the movie, but I'm a huge cynic these days.

I'm sure that the ideas of Madame Blavatsky and the Theosophists inspired a lot of the pop culture notions about the mysterious orient and orientalist magic that ended up in spiritualism, pulp fiction and comics. Blavatsky wrote about hidden societies in remote Tibet, populated by mystics and 'ascended masters' who undergo initiations and become so enlightened that they can now travel to other dimensions. The quest for the 'mystic orient' has been part of Western culture for centuries, though. I think people just like to believe in secret societies and ancient, arcane knowledge. It all makes for good stories and legends, though these days now that we know more about the reality of Tibet and China and the Asian nations in general, it all seems incredibly quaint (at best) to think that there are secret societies of ascended master sorcerers hanging out in the mountains of Tibet.

As for all of the upcoming magic events in the comics...to me it just looks like a general synergy between the comics and the phase 4 movies. They might temporarily make someone else Sorcerer Supreme, but I doubt it will last, just as I doubt that the 'Death of Doctor Strange!' will last. They've killed Strange before and brought him back. They've deposed him as Sorcerer Supreme before, but always restored the role back to Strange in the end. Killing or demoting Strange and then restoring him seems to be about all that Marvel knows what to do with him any more.

[DigiCom]

They've killed Strange before and brought him back. They've deposed him as Sorcerer Supreme before, but always restored the role back to Strange in the end. Killing or demoting Strange and then restoring him seems to be about all that Marvel knows what to do with him any more.

Sadly, I can only agree.

[Clea]

Sadly, I can only agree.

Who knows, though? Now that that Marvel is drumming up all this interest in Strange and mystical foes, and prepping to release of the next film, maybe they'll start a new ongoing series with Strange and just let him be Sorcerer Supreme doing Sorcerer Supreme stuff for a couple of years. That would be refreshing.

[DigiCom]

Who knows, though? Now that that Marvel is drumming up all this interest in Strange and mystical foes, and prepping to release of the next film, maybe they'll start a new ongoing series with Strange and just let him be Sorcerer Supreme doing Sorcerer Supreme stuff for a couple of years. That would be refreshing.

Honestly, I'm going by bitter experience. Ever since 2009, every single Strange story and/or arc has been about how his powers are gone/failing/not working properly. It's become the go-to story-line for Strange writers, just like Kingpin in Daredevil or Kang in Black Panther.

And the worst thing about it is that his powers aren't what lets him win, more often than not. He's out-thought more foes than he's out-fought. But Marvel editorial is so focused on his supposed "deues ex machina" (gods, I hate that phrase now) status, they don't realize that there are better stories to tell. I'd love to see a run where he's not fighting to save reality, but looking after ordinary people with extraordinary supernatural problems.

But in this day and age, where every story must be an Event™, I can't see that happening.

[Shadowcat]

There’s so much potential with a character like Strange. I really hope Ram V will be to Marvel’s magic characters, as Ewing is to the cosmics.

[Reviresco]

It's certainly possible, but given current societal trends, I think it more likely they'll go for someone young, possibly Wiccan or a new character. I also think said Supreme will last just long enough for Strange to come back in time for the movie, but I'm a huge cynic these days.

I think Wiccan is the front runner, as I get the feeling that the MCU is getting ready to do a Young Avengers movie / show. Sadly, he's one of my least favorite choices for Sorcerer Supreme.

As for all of the upcoming magic events in the comics...to me it just looks like a general synergy between the comics and the phase 4 movies. They might temporarily make someone else Sorcerer Supreme, but I doubt it will last, just as I doubt that the 'Death of Doctor Strange!' will last. They've killed Strange before and brought him back. They've deposed him as Sorcerer Supreme before, but always restored the role back to Strange in the end. Killing or demoting Strange and then restoring him seems to be about all that Marvel knows what to do with him any more.

So very true and disappointing. But like you said, Marvel loves its status quo ... I'm just tired of waiting, and it turning out to be more of the same depowered nonsense.

I was trying to find out how many movies Benedict Cumberbatch has on his contract ... I think he's only got Multiverse of Madness.

[Clea]

I think Wiccan is the front runner, as I get the feeling that the MCU is getting ready to do a Young Avengers movie / show. Sadly, he's one of my least favorite choices for Sorcerer Supreme.




So very true and disappointing. But like you said, Marvel loves its status quo ... I'm just tired of waiting, and it turning out to be more of the same depowered nonsense.

I was trying to find out how many movies Benedict Cumberbatch has on his contract ... I think he's only got Multiverse of Madness.

To the best of my knowledge, Multiverse of Madness is the final film on Cumberbatch's contract. Per a recent article in The Hollywood Reporter, Kevin Feige/the MCU is moving away from signing actors to long term, multi-picture contracts so it's hard to say if Cumberbatch will be in any more films.

[Reviresco]

To the best of my knowledge, Multiverse of Madness is the final film on Cumberbatch's contract. Per a recent article in The Hollywood Reporter, Kevin Feige/the MCU is moving away from signing actors to long term, multi-picture contracts so it's hard to say if Cumberbatch will be in any more films.

That's interesting. Perhaps it means they are moving away from doing trilogies for each character? Though, I really thought, with the exit of the original Big Three, that Strange would be stepping up as one of the mainstays. Of course, things have changed a bit since Endgame.

[GenericUsername]

They could extend him for certain projects like they did with Liz Olsen.

[Albert1981]

Who? Oh, Karate Kid. I didn't find that movie all that entertaining. Are you saying you think the most entertaining part of Rocky was Stallone being harassed by Burgess Meredith???

That's not about storytelling purposes. It's about the Harry Potter style story that you like. Rivalries, friendships, and consequential mistakes do happen outside of a school setting, and there are so many more types of magic stories than Harry Potter.





I don't see Marvel seriously trying for magical consistency in the comics, i.e. the Reptil link you posted. I think the movies could be worse, because it is even a more collaborative medium and there isn't even an overall editor. Though the MCU aren't spending alot of time on world building and 'rules of magic,' so there's less to keep consistent. Sure, some non-professionals can offer insightful opinions - I've found some on the forums - but it should be directly pertinent.




There is no "if." There is also no "learning." Hiddleston Loki admitted that he didn't know how to cast Enchantment magic, i.e. he has no training, no studying, no practice, yet immediately did Enchantment magic against Alioth.

I don't understand the confusion, as it has nothing to do with the versions of Loki, but what Hiddleston Loki said and did in Wednesday's episode. Regardless, you've made it quite clear that you think Sylvie Loki is the lame one.

Yeah, it was fun seeing Rocky getting given a hard time by that old geezer. I liked that Rocky went to get some "tough love" to become a better fighter. You didn't like Karate Kid?! That movie was a classic. On par with other 80s stuff like Back to the Future and the Princess Bride in my opinion. Sad! You're right, I like the "magical school" concept that was found in the Earthsea and Harry Potter novels. It's fun. I don't want these stories to be Saved by the Bell, but it's good seeing magic users learn and grow together. Learning on one's own is definitely possible. But I find it lonely and boring. You ARE right about Loki. I think he "learned" magic WAY too fast. That was a bit cheap to me. But I kinda enjoyed SEEING him finally realizing how to use magic in a cool way, so I guess I was blown away by that stuff. I'm just not the biggest fan of movies/shows using exposition about stuff that happened in the past as opposed to using even brief flashbacks? I would have liked to see Sylvie do some magic BEFORE saying what she said. Just MY preference though. Remember how lame it was in the Star Wars prequels when Anakin and Obi Wan talked about how great their friendship was and took part in these adventures together audiences NEVER got to see? I hated that shit. To tell you the truth, I DO like Sylvie. I actually think she's one of the parts of the series. Di Martino is doing a great job. I just think it would rub some folks the wrong way that Sylvie is definitely portrayed as way smarter than Loki is in his own show. I don't wanna see Di Martino come under attack because SOME audience members think that Marvel is "going woke". I want to say again I DO like Sylvie and I hope she sticks around after this series concludes and does more MCU things. I will say that I HATE the "budding romance" between Di Martino and Hiddleston though. In regards to magical consistency in the MCU, I think posters on this thread must be somewhat pleased with how things have gone. Sure, some stuff will probably not be explained. But I don't FEEL that the "rules" are being changed THAT much from movie to movie. For the comic books, it's much harder as you say. Strange has been a character longer than probably most of us have been alive. But as long as Feige is in charge of things, I have a REASONABLE amount of confidence that Marvel Studios magic will "make sense." I mean, Disney took SO long to introduce magic properly to its movies and shows, so I get the feeling that they're trying to cut down on the deus ex machinas. I mean, Marvel Studios has spent QUITE a bit of time on explaining how time travel works in the MCU in the Loki series, and they have been taken QUITE a bit of time to introduce multiverses into the MCU as well. I thought it was funny that they used a couple of fakeouts in Far From Home AND WandaVision to tease audiences about multiverses. I think Fantastic Beasts and Wonder Woman 84 were WAY more inconsistent than the MCU stuff.

Oh, I also like your take on the Lord of the Flies stuff. Never thought of it that way!

[Albert1981]

Doom and Strange are literally going to Hell to face the Devil and it's drawn by Mike Mignola. No, it's not serial killer scary, but Triumph and Torment is atmospheric and operatic and sits firmly in the supernatural and horror genre.




Lord of the Flies wasn't a boy's adventure story where the point was getting rescued, so no, I don't think that was a deus ex machina ending. Golding clearly set up that rescue by fire, just not the controlled signal fire the 'civilized' contingent planned on, and meant to contrast the adults and children's conflicts.





I don't think horror necessarily has to be scary. Also, New Mutants, while not part of the MCU, had elements of a horror film. I could see Multiverse of Madness being creepy and supernatural.





Yes, I agree 200%.





I think you are limiting your definition of horror and supernatural.




Makes me want to re-read Tomb of Dracula!





When Magik is little girl she is literally kidnapped and abused by a hell lord in a hell dimension for almost a decade. It's a horrifying storyline. She's the ruler of that hell dimension and commands demons and has her own demonic side. She may be used in a lot of superhero storylines, but at her core, she's a horror character.

Strange and Wong and Voodoo definitely fall into the supernatural and horror world. Wanda and Loki can certainly do those sort of stories. I would argue that Marvel's horror books don't do that well nowadays, because they keep trying to make superheroes out those characters.




But as usual, the comics started to take on aspects of the movie.

Personally, I thought the Shining, the Omen, the Exorcist, the Changeling and the Shining were pretty scary. I don't think Disney will do anything that dark. I also don't think Marvel Studios will go the "post-apocalyptic horror" route that is quite popular these days. I do think that Feige DOES watch the Walking Dead though and might get some ideas there, however. I consider psychological thriller movies to be in the "suspense" genre. No supernatural stuff there. Don't think Marvel will go there but a lot of "thrillers" DO scare ME. When I hear Olsen saying how "scary" the MoM is gonna be, I sort of take her word for it? I mean, horror is Raimi's thing. Albeit, his horror IS kinda corny. Maybe we'll be getting some Disney "jump scares" next year?

Holy shit. I didn't know Magik went through so much trauma! She literally sounds like Marvel's answer to Raven. I had no idea that Strange, Wanda, Wong, Voodoo, and Loki are horror characters. I know the genres blend, but I always had it in my mind that fantasy is like the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lord of the Rings and the Earthsea Cycle, NOT the horror movies I just mentioned. Strange 1 had some creepy moments, but I thought it was more psychedelic than terrifying. Whatever happened to Marvel's horror books? It's like they don't exist anymore!

[Clea]

That's interesting. Perhaps it means they are moving away from doing trilogies for each character? Though, I really thought, with the exit of the original Big Three, that Strange would be stepping up as one of the mainstays. Of course, things have changed a bit since Endgame.

They could extend him for certain projects like they did with Liz Olsen.

If I had to guess, I'd say that initially Marvel signed the actors to multi-film contracts so that they could ensure that they'd get the first bunch of films completed while the actors were all still available and age-appropriate. Now that the MCU is so established, they can afford to to start doing more one-off type movies instead of planning multi-movie epics. They likely could get Cumberbatch back on an ad hoc basis with the right script.

[Albert1981]

A lot of the inspiration for Strange comics come from gothic horror.

So Ditko was a big fan of Bram Stoker and Edgar Allan Poe? I didn't know that!

[DigiCom]

I know the genres blend, but I always had it in my mind that fantasy is like the Chronicles of Narnia, the Lord of the Rings and the Earthsea Cycle, NOT the horror movies I just mentioned. Strange 1 had some creepy moments, but I thought it was more psychedelic than terrifying. Whatever happened to Marvel's horror books? It's like they don't exist anymore!

There's a LOT more to fantasy than that. Everything from Hyboria & Gormenghast to Lankhmar & Melnibone. And that's just the "traditional" fantasy genre.