Joker (2019) alleged script leak (warning: possible spoilers)

[Starter Set]

It doesn't sound interesting in the slighest to me but well, we will see.

[950Killer]

More info about the film, this comes from an industry insider, its inline with the original plot leak, so yeah maybe its real in some degree.
- Joker is literally insane. There are those who will take it the wrong way and make him their hero.
- He becomes Joker because he's literally insane. The world beating him down (which you see in the trailer) is part of it but he's multiple-prescription-drug INSANE to begin with.
- Zazie Bets isn't killed, at least not in the script. The last time you see her is her reaction to the TV of something reaaaally bad the Joker does towards end.
- Joker takes her flowers and an envelope with a note telling to Zazie Bets to watch a show on TV (because of what he plans to do). It's alluded that she threw away the flowers or something since you see the contents of the envelope on her table, but they make a point to say you don't see the flowers.

[AJBopp]

More info about the film, this comes from an industry insider, its inline with the original plot leak, so yeah maybe its real in some degree.
- Joker is literally insane. There are those who will take it the wrong way and make him their hero.

A not insignificant risk in this day and age with a movie like this is that the same may end up being true in the real world.

[Star_Jammer]

A not insignificant risk in this day and age with a movie like this is that the same may end up being true in the real world.

People did find Killmonger relatable, after all.

The same dude that casually kills his girlfriend.

And by "casually", I mean "absolutely no fucks given".

[Cyke]

People did find Killmonger relatable, after all.

The same dude that casually kills his girlfriend.

And by "casually", I mean "absolutely no fucks given".

Well, I mean, nobody cheered him on for that. They liked what he stood for, but acknowledged he was the villain. And at the end of the movie, T'Challa essentially gave in to Killmonger's ultimate demand -- the end of Wakandan self-isolation. He was *that* convincing. Ends vs. the means.

It'd be very, very hard to come up with some sort of scenario where Batman sides with the Joker or finds him sympathetic, even if Batman isn't actually in this movie.

[Star_Jammer]

Well, I mean, nobody cheered him on for that. They liked what he stood for, but acknowledged he was the villain. And at the end of the movie, T'Challa essentially gave in to Killmonger's ultimate demand -- the end of Wakandan self-isolation. He was *that* convincing. Ends vs. the means.

It'd be very, very hard to come up with some sort of scenario where Batman sides with the Joker or finds him sympathetic, even if Batman isn't actually in this movie.

No, they cheered him for "standing up against the system". And he stood for "doing bad things to get results he wanted", and at the end of the day...cheering for someone who does bad things is...cheering for someone who does bad things.

And just because nobody specifically cheered him for killing his girlfriend doesn't mean "the ends justify the means" is OK...because killing that girlfriend is a part of the means/ends.

[AJBopp]

No, they cheered him for "standing up against the system". And he stood for "doing bad things to get results he wanted", and at the end of the day...cheering for someone who does bad things is...cheering for someone who does bad things.

And just because nobody specifically cheered him for killing his girlfriend doesn't mean "the ends justify the means" is OK...because killing that girlfriend is a part of the means/ends.

I would only suggest that there is a significant sociological difference between Killmonger and the depiction of Joker this leak represents. It's an important distinction, and not one to take lightly.

[Star_Jammer]

I would only suggest that there is a significant sociological difference between Killmonger and the depiction of Joker this leak represents. It's an important distinction, and not one to take lightly.

The implication that having a shitty life and abusive people surrounding you can make one snap?

[AJBopp]

The implication that having a shitty life and abusive people surrounding you can make one snap?

No. That is nothing close to the implication.

[Star_Jammer]

No. That is nothing close to the implication.

Then I have to ask you to clarify what you’re trying to say.

The Joker’s story is one of a descent into madness. We can feel sorry that events in someone’s life happened in such a way that caused the descent, without championing them for striking out.

However, Killmonger’s story was one of revenge and seeking “justice”. He wasn’t insane; he knew what he was doing was wrong He knew what violence and conquest led to.

Sure, he was “fighting racism and oppression”, and he gets cool point for that. But the important factor is in how he was fighting. I purport that Nakia had more to do in changing T’Challa’s viewpoint directly (with Killmonger being more indirect), and compared to Killmonger, she’s a pacifist.

[AJBopp]

Then I have to ask you to clarify what you’re trying to say.

Sorry. Not continuing this silly line of conversation.

[Star_Jammer]

Sorry. Not continuing this silly line of conversation.

Doesn’t feel like something to be sorry for.

[C_Miller]

Man, I feel really alone right now, but I think it sounds fantastic. It's all in execution, but it feels like it's going to live up to the promises of the premise. I didn't think I'd be the only person who thought this sounds good though...

[jetengine]

Sounds utterly awful. And yes, this will be horribly misinterpreted by THE USUAL SUBJECTS and suddenly we'll have "Joker was right" everywhere. Thanos is right is still a thing, even though he wanted to destroy everything.

[phonogram12]

It actually sounds life a pretty decent flick. That said, it's really not something I care for in a Joker movie. I wasn't planning on seeing this in the theaters before and this only cements that gut reaction.