Your Unpopular/Controversial Opinions on the X-Universe

[Zelena]

I think taking pride in who you are is also admirable. If mutant life wasn't so rough (killer robots, genocides, etc.) I think more mutants would take the "Call me Alex," approach to life.

Taking pride in who you are… yes. I loathe the idea that there’s shameful in being a human and this is what the X-men is all about now. It has come to that.

[Kingdom X]

Taking pride in who you are… yes. I loathe the idea that there’s shameful in being a human and this is what the X-men is all about now. It has come to that.

I don't think this is true actually. Yes supremacist mutants like Magneto and Apocalypse have been saying a lot of wild things, but on the other hand we haven't seen anybody saying anything negative about Shogo and Kyle being permanent residents. Additionally, one of their first laws is a protection for humans.

[Grunty]

Indeed. I do appreciate how much pride the Krakoans take in their mutant-ness, now.

Reminds me that i once read how Gene Nation was at one point the idea of second generation Morlocks who instead of hiding in the tunnels like their parents did, would go out in the world and seek trouble and fights, while displaying their mutated appearance in full view. An "In your face!" approach. All to create confrontation and controversy instead of having mutants be an "out there somewhere" issue people could easily dismiss.
Even if it wasn't what Lobdell had ever in mind, i think would have been a lot more interesting than a "terrorist group from a pocket dimension" they ended up being.

It makes me wonder about what kind of sub-culture or opposing definition of "mutant-ness" could form in the current climate. Perhaps something closer to that original concept.

Even with all the money in the world and every physical good they desire, there could very well still be different ideologies and cultural divides forming among the mutants based on appearance, powers and previous backround.

Exodus can preach the kids about how they should behave and view the rest of mankind all he wants, but sooner or later some will start to question the "adults" teaching and become rebellious.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Mutants have done bad things at times, yes, but if your premise is "Humans are right to exterminate them" I don't know how you can enjoy them.

That wasn't what was said, the premise is this character is a mutant serial killer who is engaging to watch but I still believe mutants shouldn't be oppressed. The problem is the mutant being a bad guy, not that oppression is right when mutants do it. There's a huge gap between someone like Apocalypse and Beak, people shouldn't fear Beak but they should Apocalypse - including other mutants. He killed off the externals in heart beat, with no remorse. It's like thinking every fan of Hannibal Lecter actually eats people in real life.

[Devaishwarya]

Reminds me that i once read how Gene Nation was at one point the idea of second generation Morlocks who instead of hiding in the tunnels like their parents did, would go out in the world and seek trouble and fights, while displaying their mutated appearance in full view. An "In your face!" approach. All to create confrontation and controversy instead of having mutants be an "out there somewhere" issue people could easily dismiss.
Even if it wasn't what Lobdell had ever in mind, i think would have been a lot more interesting than a "terrorist group from a pocket dimension" they ended up being.

It makes me wonder about what kind of sub-culture or opposing definition of "mutant-ness" could form in the current climate. Perhaps something closer to that original concept.

Even with all the money in the world and every physical good they desire, there could very well still be different ideologies and cultural divides forming among the mutants based on appearance, powers and previous backround.

Exodus can preach the kids about how they should behave and view the rest of mankind all he wants, but sooner or later some will start to question the "adults" teaching and become rebellious.

That would make for a really great, tightly focused, character driven, Extended Limited Series, now that you've mentioned it. Something like District X but with greater and in depth social awareness.

[baxer]

Why would Jean be a villain because pf Dark Phoenix? she was a rape victim and had a mental breakdown. It was wrong, she paid for it and redeemed herself by saving the X-men. It's almost like people didn't paid atention to the story

[Devaishwarya]

It's like ra-aaainnn on your wedding day! It's a free ride when you've already paid...

[Agent Z]

Why do you read X-Men comics if you think mutants are the bad guys.

"Not all mutants are innocent" =/= "All mutants are bad guys".

[pkingdom]

Why would Jean be a villain because pf Dark Phoenix? she was a rape victim and had a mental breakdown. It was wrong, she paid for it and redeemed herself by saving the X-men. It's almost like people didn't paid atention to the story

Well, thing is saving the X men doesn't bring that planet of people she killed back. That's the problem, not how she treats her friends. If anything them being willing to sweep planetary extinction because she helped them out makes them look terrible. And I get it, the specifics with the cloning and psychic copies and all that makes it super weird. they've been iffy on how responsible she is for it, what with the whole fusing to her past memories and junk.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Well, thing is saving the X men doesn't bring that planet of people she killed back. That's the problem, not how she treats her friends. If anything them being willing to sweep planetary extinction because she helped them out makes them look terrible. And I get it, the specifics with the cloning and psychic copies and all that makes it super weird. they've been iffy on how responsible she is for it, what with the whole fusing to her past memories and junk.

At least Jean has that retcon creating distance, the Phoenix Five don't. Jean is aware of the bad things end did as the Phoenix and she reminds herself of this by wearing the Marvel Girl costume - the PF act like they did nothing wrong/ the event isn't canon.

[Agent Z]

One of the bigger problem with X-men franchise at times is that everyone gets along and has the same style of being hero.

On small related note Gambit, Cable and lesser degree Wolverine became worse characters when you take away their flaws and explain out their back stories. Gambit is better as womanizing ,chain smoking thief with a mysterious background who is bit of cocky bastard. So I guess the unpopular opinion is We don't need to backstory of some characters,unless you have a killer amazing story just leave the backstory alone, We didn't need to know Wolverine past and real name, We didn't need to know Gambit secret, We don't need to know Rogue's real name,etc. I can't think anything that being James Howlett has actually help for Wolverine.

Since when? If anything, the X-Men have been arguably the most dysfunctional group of heroes in the Marvel universe. There has never been a point where everyone got along swimmingly with no conflict.

As for Rogue's real name, I fail to see how revealing that info destroys her character.

[Zelena]

I don't think this is true actually. Yes supremacist mutants like Magneto and Apocalypse have been saying a lot of wild things, but on the other hand we haven't seen anybody saying anything negative about Shogo and Kyle being permanent residents. Additionally, one of their first laws is a protection for humans.

But nobody contradicts them…

And the depowered are considered as humans and they are shamed for that in a society where you’re a true citizen only if you have a power, to the point they commit suicide.

[Killerbee911]

Since when? If anything, the X-Men have been arguably the most dysfunctional group of heroes in the Marvel universe. There has never been a point where everyone got along swimmingly with no conflict.

As for Rogue's real name, I fail to see how revealing that info destroys her character.

So this is the problem with discussions on the internet was I suppose to say everyone gets along "most of the time" or everyone gets along "but the conflicts are light". I don't think my statement was one where it was need to be broken down at that level but since I have to be exact in my speech you throw a group like Storm,Kitty, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler,Colossus together they will have conflicts but it will be little petty stuff not anything with substance. Yeah sure the X-men have been dysfunctional but like Brother and Sister arguing over who is washing the dishes dysfunctional. X-men is better when it is Kwannon or Emma Frost trying to seduce Cyclops dysfunctional. Wolverine and Emma implying that they should put Wanda down for the sake of the world dysfunctional. AoA Colossus leaving Gen X behind dysfunctional.

Again no where did I say learning Rogues name destroy the characters. Characters like Wolverine, Gambit, etc had a bit a mystery about them and mystery is good for the mystique of the character. Basically people imagine cool things about the character because of the mystery. If you are going to take away that edge from the character make it something good that effective story and you keep using in the future. A good example is Kwannon learning about Kwannon past came with a detail that can be used in the future and is defining how the character acts. The ability to imagine a mystery around characters a good thing and taking away that asset without leaving behind something useful actual hurts or diminishes characters. It is equivalent of a undefeated fighter in combat sports once you get a loss on the record you are look at differently. They were selling Ronda Rousey as this amazing badass warrior woman and once she got KO and loss the mystery and mystique was gone. And once it is gone you can't get it back.

[Steel Inquisitor]

So this is the problem with discussions on the internet was I suppose to say everyone gets along "most of the time" or everyone gets along "but the conflicts are light". I don't think my statement was one where it was need to be broken down at that level but since I have to be exact in my speech you throw a group like Storm,Kitty, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler,Colossus together they will have conflicts but it will be little petty stuff not anything with substance. Yeah sure the X-men have been dysfunctional but like Brother and Sister arguing over who is washing the dishes dysfunctional. X-men is better when it is Kwannon or Emma Frost trying to seduce Cyclops dysfunctional. Wolverine and Emma implying that they should put Wanda down for the sake of the world dysfunctional. AoA Colossus leaving Gen X behind dysfunctional.

The trouble Emma brings is far more than Jerry Springer drama, and the more I think about how she got Scott the more horrible she gets. She should have vastly more conflict with the team then she does have, especially when's he keeps doing horrible things mutant villains do when they're in terrorist groups. Everyone should not nat her on the team, the X-men writers need to stop writing the team like she's Rogue when she joined. She's not Rogue, she's Sabretooth. Kwannon wasn't seducing Cyclops, that was Betsy and that was typical soapy drama expected in the books not what Emma did as his therapist. She does fit on the Quiet Council more than Jean and Storm, another monster in a group of monsters fits just like she did in the Hellfire Club.

[Agent Z]

So this is the problem with discussions on the internet was I suppose to say everyone gets along "most of the time" or everyone gets along "but the conflicts are light". I don't think my statement was one where it was need to be broken down at that level but since I have to be exact in my speech you throw a group like Storm,Kitty, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler,Colossus together they will have conflicts but it will be little petty stuff not anything with substance. Yeah sure the X-men have been dysfunctional but like Brother and Sister arguing over who is washing the dishes dysfunctional. X-men is better when it is Kwannon or Emma Frost trying to seduce Cyclops dysfunctional. Wolverine and Emma implying that they should put Wanda down for the sake of the world dysfunctional. AoA Colossus leaving Gen X behind dysfunctional.

Dysfunction for dysfunction's sake is not inherently interesting or better writing. Betys (not Kwannon) trying to seduce Cyclops isn't exactly a memorable story and being dysfunctional in the way you described has also produced plenty of crappy stories. Conflicts don't have to be that extreme to be considered good writing.

Again no where did I say learning Rogues name destroy the characters.

You put it in the same category as learning Wolverine's past and destroying the mystery around him. Rogue's real name was never treated in the same way as Gambit or Wolverine's past.

Characters like Wolverine, Gambit, etc had a bit a mystery about them and mystery is good for the mystique of the character. Basically people imagine cool things about the character because of the mystery. If you are going to take away that edge from the character make it something good that effective story and you keep using in the future. A good example is Kwannon learning about Kwannon past came with a detail that can be used in the future and is defining how the character acts. The ability to imagine a mystery around characters a good thing and taking away that asset without leaving behind something useful actual hurts or diminishes characters. It is equivalent of a undefeated fighter in combat sports once you get a loss on the record you are look at differently. They were selling Ronda Rousey as this amazing badass warrior woman and once she got KO and loss the mystery and mystique was gone. And once it is gone you can't get it back.

What you're describing here is actually what they did with Wolverine and Gambit. The revelations about their secrets was used to craft new stories like Gambit being kicked out of the X-Men and Wolverine's son Daken.