WW's Most Iconic Graphic Novel?

[Alpha]

EK_Rg8yUYAAs7nQ.jpg

You really think it's okay for Diana to do this to another superhero? Putting her foot on someone already lying on the ground and far below her strength level? And beyond that, putting that foot on their head and threatening them when they don't even have a way to escape?

Showing he isn't a threat is fine, but stepping on someone's head is never something one does to restrain, it's always to make them feel inferior, without dignity. This is a very low moment for Diana and shouldn't be the cover of her most famous OGN.

[Alpha]

Even ignoring the fact that this is the perfect use for the lasso, Imagine Superman did that to Batman. Imagine the Man of Tomorrow put his foot on top of Batman's head while he was already spread on the ground and said

Don't...
Get...
Up!

[Perseus]

Even ignoring the fact that this is the perfect use for the lasso, Imagine Superman did that to Batman. Imagine the Man of Tomorrow put his foot on top of Batman's head while he was already spread on the ground and said

Don't...
Get...
Up!

You know if you wanna reply to me you can do so by quoting me.

I told you already that what happens in Hiketiea is not the same as Police Brutality, there is so much wrong in making that the comparison. Bruce is not a minority, he isn't in poverty, and isn't abused by a system that oppresses him, but that's just barely getting into it. The only thing that Bruce doesn't have over Diana is in the physical department, nothing more, they are both otherwise in positions of privilege with in society.

Edit: No Superman wouldn't do that, because he is not Wonder Woman, you seem to forget that they are different people with different view points.

Also, they aren't cops, they are not treated like cops. This is a problem between two superheroes.

[Alpha]

You know if you wanna reply to me you can do so by quoting me.

I told you already that what happens in Hiketiea is not the same as Police Brutality, there is so much wrong in making that the comparison. Bruce is not a minority, he isn't in poverty, and isn't abused by a system that oppresses him, but that's just barely getting into it. The only thing that Bruce doesn't have over Diana is in the physical department, nothing more, they are both otherwise in positions of privilege with in society.

Edit: No Superman wouldn't do that, because he is not Wonder Woman, you seem to forget that they are different people with different view points.

Also, they aren't cops, they are not treated like cops. This is a problem between two superheroes.

You think a badge and the economic power of the victim are the only thing wrong with those photos? Don't you think the act itself is shameful?

And again, this isn't about violence. I recognize that Diana can be violent when necessary. This is her humiliating another human being for no reason. Putting her foot on Batman's head while he was spread on the ground wasn't necessary for her to stop him. And she didn't need to threaten him because he had no way to escape and she had a failsafe way to make sure he would be out for the rest if his life, without even harming him.

This is Diana at her lowest, there is nothing to celebrate about that image. I don't know what qualities you recognize in Diana that make this an image that should be popularized.

[Perseus]

You think a badge and the economic power of the victim are the only thing wrong with those photos? Don't you think the act itself is shameful?

And again, this isn't about violence. I recognize that Diana can be violent when necessary. This is her humiliating another human being for no reason. Putting her foot on Batman's head while he was spread on the ground wasn't necessary for her to stop him. And she didn't need to threaten him because he had no way to escape and she had a failsafe way to make sure he would be out for the rest if his life, without even harming him.

This is Diana at her lowest, there is nothing to celebrate about that image. I don't know what qualities you recognize in Diana that make this an image that should be popularized.

No, I don't think the act alone is shameful. I think the circumstances about the act can make it shameful, like in your examples of authorities of the state using it to bully and suppress victims. Diana and Bruce are not authorities of the state and you could argue that both are victims to the Eyries/the laws of the oath. I said before that I think what Diana did was a power move to get Bruce to stop, that's all and I stand by that judgement. You could say its mean but I don't see shameful, I see Diana finally having enough of Bruce's crap in this situation given their previous encounter.

Heck, some people find it kinky in sexual situations, is that wrong too?

No reason huh.....





Bruce wasn't going to stop he was never planning to. Diana wasn't either. This is the "unstoppable force meets an immoveable object". After this moment Bruce attempts to use the oath to try and get around Diana. He also, gets back up right after. Again, you're ignoring the main context of the story and the overall plot and its messages because Diana isn't fitting that little box you have for her. Ironically, other heroes have done similar things, Bruce included.

[Alpha]

Once again, the freaking lasso is much more effective and dignified. And in the end, I'm not even complaining about the story itself, I'm complaining about choosing that moment as the cover.

[Alpha]

And heck, imagine a 14 year old doing that to a 5 year old. It's about the same. Batman might be an adult, but if Diana puts her foot on his back instead of his head he still wouldn't be able to get up.

[Gaius]

It's dominatrix imagery. Same as the lasso you're championing.

[Alpha]

Yes, humiliation is a part of bdsm. I don't understand how that matters to my argument. This situation wasn't consensual.

[Agent Z]

Yes, humiliation is a part of bdsm. I don't understand how that matters to my argument. This situation wasn't consensual.

How many times has Diana used the lasso on someone with their consent? Hell, one of the first things Marston's Diana did was use it to make her doctor stand on her head. But one image of Diana putting her foot on somebody's head is too far? I'm not even saying I would have gone specifically for that image but their is a clear dissonance between your criticisms of that cover and how you've argued Diana should be.

[Robanker]

People heralded Death Earth as Diana's best?

Wasn't the whole point of Death Earth to show Diana as horrendously flawed? She got so mad she caused humanities genocide.

She swings Superman's spine around like a flail. To braindead edgelords, that's enough to be her best book. Ditto Death Metal which is a Batman event she got to sit in the front seat of the roller coaster for.

It's overly grimdark and was pretty antithetical to Wonder Woman if I'm being honest.

I've become very wary of writers talking about their Wonder Woman plans if one of her rogues doesn't follow within two sentences or they only know Greek gods. Is that fair? No, but I'm tired of Warrior Woman.

I agree the KSD book won't really feature Diana much, but it has potential to be the big Wonder book. Jury's still out on if we'll get a seminal work featuring Wonder Woman instead of, well, star spangled Xena.

[Agent Z]

Never read A League of One, but frankly the two stories I see heralded as Diana's best (Hiketeia and now Dead Earth) are not my favorites. I outright dislike Dead Earth.

I don't know that Diana has a seminal work. She needs her DKR (and it kills me that this is Bruce's, but it is) or All-Star Superman. Hoping KSD's upcoming book will be the one.

May I ask why you don't like Hiketeia?

[Robanker]

May I ask why you don't like Hiketeia?

Alpha kind of touched on it, but I still never agree with Diana grinding a friend under heel under any circumstances. I can understand using the lasso because it's a tool to compel truth and one can still compose themselves with dignity and respect while ensnared, but Diana embracing the posture of an oppressor to force surrender is just antithetical and feels more like Rucka was trying to make her kewl/badass. For many that works, but that isn't Diana to me. She'd never put her boot on the head of anyone in the JLA. Much less grandstand to assert dominance (yes, I'm aware she's trying to end the conflict). She's better than that. The whole thing read like Rucka trying to sell Diana to people based on "well she can **** up Batman."

I know there's more to it, but frankly that's what it boils down to in the end and "look how cool x is, they beat y" is the least compelling quality of the genre for this reader.

It completely breaks the book for me. It's not like that's Joker or something, and even then, she'd restrain them with the lasso, but I can be convinced she'd do this to some truly reprehensible foes... But her ally (that Rucka believes she has romantic feelings for)? It's too far. Much like Snyder's fascination with Bruce and Joker teaming up, that's an automatic fail from me. It being the cover image only stinks worse.

[Alpha]

How many times has Diana used the lasso on someone with their consent? Hell, one of the first things Marston's Diana did was use it to make her doctor stand on her head. But one image of Diana putting her foot on somebody's head is too far? I'm not even saying I would have gone specifically for that image but their is a clear dissonance between your criticisms of that cover and how you've argued Diana should be.

What the heck is going on here? Nothing you wrote had anything to do with what I was discussing. I don't wanna argue aboit consent, because I don't want Diana to be a bdsm avid. That's the part of Marston that definitely needed to be replaced. And I definitely don't want the lasso of Truth to control other people like it did originally.

My point is that the image of Diana putting her foot on the head of a human superhero she has worked with is one of the lowest moments in her career, and thus shouldn't be celebrated the way it is, as the cover of the most popular OGN she has.

I don't see how I've argued that Diana should step on the head of a hero far below her strength level and threaten them, but you are free to show me.

In any case, why are you defending this cover? Do you really like this image of her taking away someone's dignity?

[I'm a Fish]

She swings Superman's spine around like a flail. To braindead edgelords, that's enough to be her best book. Ditto Death Metal which is a Batman event she got to sit in the front seat of the roller coaster for.

It's overly grimdark and was pretty antithetical to Wonder Woman if I'm being honest.

I've become very wary of writers talking about their Wonder Woman plans if one of her rogues doesn't follow within two sentences or they only know Greek gods. Is that fair? No, but I'm tired of Warrior Woman.

I agree the KSD book won't really feature Diana much, but it has potential to be the big Wonder book. Jury's still out on if we'll get a seminal work featuring Wonder Woman instead of, well, star spangled Xena.

*Sigh* indeed.

I don’t mind overly grimdark stories, I just want more of her stories that aren’t like that so people know those stories are meant to be over-the-top and a bit ridiculous.

Death Earth I found to be so over-the-top that I enjoyed parts of it. Even if the theme of the story was meant to humanize Diana and made it seem like she’s never been a flawed character or never had moments of anger in her ongoing...

“Look guys, Wonder Woman is just as flawed as us humans! When we genocide her people, she takes it out on her friend and murders him while nearly whipping out human civilization in the process! How humanizing!”

Again, so over-the-top. It’s a little silly.