Seriously how can anyone support Donald Trump?

[Username taken]

As has been said: Are all Trump supporters racist as individuals? Perhaps. Perhaps not. They all didn't /mind/ his racism, however, and certainly he has empowered racists if the huge surge in hate crimes is any indication. If you support Trump, you enable the racist policies of him and his party. You don't get to dodge that while crying about the left being meanyfaces and judging them about it.

Exactly.

Trump's rhetoric and actions aren't things to just waive away. They've been extremely toxic and bigoted and one can't just ignore the corresponding rise in hate crimes (which is a far more clear and present danger than any "islamic terror" the right uses to stoke xenophobia).

His supporters are directly enabling this nonsense and it's either they take a stand against it and not support "Trumpism" or simply accept they are supporting said rubbish.

[numberthirty]

Psst. This is a stupid comment. And here's why: the crime bill of those days was supported and asked for by the congressional black caucus. The whole line on super predators was BS, BS pushed by <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/12/shared-russia-trump-focus-depressing-black-votes/578302/">Russian-backed</a> fronts, swallowed up by misogynists and berners to be used against Hillary in the primaries. And I am not gonna go after Hillary for her hubsand's Don't Ask Don't Tell, which by the way was a step up from the status-quo in the 90s. What you're revealing here is that you lack an accurate understanding of both Hillary's history, Bill's history, the history of American civil rights, and Hillary had no vote for gay marriage in 2013 because /she was the secretary of state/ already and no longer in a position to vote on anything in congress.


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Someone would like to disagree with that assessment...

[Tendrin]

Yes, yes. Ice Cube disagrees. I don't really give a flying $##$ what one person says when history as a whole says something else in context. You don't eed to truck out Ice Cube or Killer Mike every time superpredators gets brought up out of some desperate need to score perceived points.

None of this changes that SuperPredators was junk science that was filtered down through the justice system's systemic racism (blacks were more likely to be found to be 'superpredators' than whites, surely) but none of that addresses the context in which Hillary was speaking. Her husband (and Bernie) both backed the bill that resulted in mass incarceration, yet she takes all the blame from people like you as usual.

[TriggerWarning]

Psst. This is a stupid comment. And here's why: the crime bill of those days was supported and asked for by the congressional black caucus. The whole line on super predators was BS, BS pushed by russian troll farms and the Trump campaign both in the interests of depressing the black vote, swallowed up by misogynists and berners to be used against Hillary in the primaries. And I am not gonna go after Hillary for her hubsand's Don't Ask Don't Tell, which by the way was a step up from the status-quo in the 90s. What you're revealing here is that you lack an accurate understanding of both Hillary's history, Bill's history, the history of American civil rights. Lastly, Hillary had no vote for gay marriage in 2013 because /she had already been the secretary of state/ already and no longer in a position to vote on anything in congress.

I'll hold Hillary's feet to the fire on gay rights and mass incarceration when she's president rather than rank whataboutism when we're dealing with a guy who nakedly calls Mexicans rapists and institutes a religiously-minded ban on Muslim immigration and tells us that there are 'very fine people on both sides' when one of those sides included nazis and people okay with marching with nazis.



Yes. There's a surge in hate crimes.



Your opinion here is nonsense and unsupported by facts, designed to placate and protect your own POV. It is not backed up by data, by facts. The crime rate going down on the whole does not mean there is no an uptick in individual types of crimes. Trump has empowered racists. It is not supporters of anyone else who marched down streets shouting 'JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US'. It is no one else's rallies that have poeple shouting 'JEW-S-A' at the media.

The line on super predators was BS? Here it is right at about the 1:15 mark. Are you going to try and claim thats not Hilary Clinton up there championing her husband's get tough on crime policies for urban street kids? Policies by the way which resulted in a lot of the problems we are now seeing in black communities where kids grew up without fathers because they were in prison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0uCrA7ePno


And as to Hilary having no vote in 2013? Your apparently okay with her being a bigot toward gays as long as she can't vote on it. The Clintons set back gay rights by 15 years with their bigotry against gays and broken promises.

It okay to hate Trump, he's a genuinely awful person. But don't try and act like Hilary Clinton past views didn't matter just because "she didn't have a vote."

[Tendrin]

The line on super predators was BS? Here it is right at about the 1:15 mark. Are you going to try and claim thats not Hilary Clinton up there championing her husband's get tough on crime policies for urban street kids? Policies by the way which resulted in a lot of the problems we are now seeing in black communities where kids grew up without fathers because they were in prison.

Again: The attack line on her on it is BS. Is mass incarceration bad? Yes. Was it an unforseen consequence of the crime bill? Yes. Does Bill have responsibilioty for it? Yes. Does Hillary? Far lesser.She gave an opinion on it based on what was unknown at the time to be junk science. She got it wrong, certainly, but the attack line is a deliberate manipulation of the context of the interview at the time designed to /depress the black vote/. DEliberately targetted to do so and here you are, liek clockwork, using it to go after Hillary as a form of whataboutism to act like 'both sides are just as bad', while one side was trying to address the real concerns of black delegates to congress in the midst of the crack epidemic that was seeing black men die in the streets at high rates. You lack the context to understand the history of what was being addressed, and whose interests were being protected by what was, at the time, perceived to be a best effort. That it had deep, felt to this day consequences is real and has to be addressed and hasn't been because of the power of the prison-industrial complex and law enforcement, and also voter apathy to the fate of the incarcerated plus racism.

And as to Hilary having no vote in 2013? Your apparently okay with her being a bigot toward gays as long as she can't vote on it. The Clintons set back gay rights by 15 years with their bigotry against gays and broken promises.

She had no vote in 2013 because she was Secretary of State. I'll hold the Obama administration accountable except...gay marriage was legalized with the help of justices he put on the Supreme Court.

I'll certainly castigate Hillary for DOMA, except... oh, wait. That was instituted in 1998 on her husband's watch, who said it was an unnecessarily divisive law at the time. I'll castigate them for Don't ask Don't Tell, except... that was what allowed gay men to serve at all given that the military was /even more homophobic/ back then.

It okay to hate Trump, he's a genuinely awful person. But don't try and act like Hilary Clinton past views didn't matter just because "she didn't have a vote."

I'm not excusing anything. You said she voted on it in 2013. She did not. This is why I don't take you very seriously.

[numberthirty]

Yes, yes. Ice Cube disagrees. I don't really give a flying $##$ what one person says when history as a whole says something else in context. You don't eed to truck out Ice Cube or Killer Mike every time superpredators gets brought up out of some desperate need to score perceived points.

None of this changes that SuperPredators was junk science that was filtered down through the justice system's systemic racism (blacks were more likely to be found to be 'superpredators' than whites, surely) but none of that addresses the context in which Hillary was speaking. Her husband (and Bernie) both backed the bill that resulted in mass incarceration, yet she takes all the blame from people like you as usual.

I've gone over that Bill was still justifying this garbage during her campaign more than a few times. So, the "She takes all the blame..." bit doesn't really hold up.

Matter of fact, let's point out one more time that Bill Clinton still didn't seem to get it as recently as the last Presidential election...

[Tendrin]

I've gone over that Bill was still justifying this garbage during her campaign more than a few times. So, the "She takes all the blame..." bit doesn't really hold up.

Matter of fact, let's point out one more time that Bill Clinton still didn't seem to get it as recently as the last Presidential election...

Yeah, I heard about Bill not getting it. It's not surprising. People are notoriously bad at accepting responsibility for things. Fortunately, Hillary is not Bill but it's fun to watch you do exactly what I said you'd do.

[numberthirty]

Again: The attack line on her on it is BS. Is mass incarceration bad? Yes. Was it an unforseen consequence of the crime bill? Yes. Does Bill have responsibilioty for it? Yes. Does Hillary? Far lesser.She gave an opinion on it based on what was unknown at the time to be junk science. She got it wrong, certainly, but the attack line is a deliberate manipulation of the context of the interview at the time designed to /depress the black vote/. DEliberately targetted to do so and here you are, liek clockwork, using it to go after Hillary as a form of whataboutism to act like 'both sides are just as bad', while one side was trying to address the real concerns of black delegates to congress in the midst of the crack epidemic that was seeing black men die in the streets at high rates. You lack the context to understand the history of what was being addressed, and whose interests were being protected by what was, at the time, perceived to be a best effort. That it had deep, felt to this day consequences is real and has to be addressed and hasn't been because of the power of the prison-industrial complex and law enforcement, and also voter apathy to the fate of the incarcerated plus racism.


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This really needs to be addressed.



Just take the "We are going to run with the "Drug War" approach..." part of that video.

While I'm not about to say that it is on her, the idea that anyone at that time could never have been able to guess what the results of such an approach would be?

That just makes zero sense.

The approach revolves around locking people up.

[Tendrin]

[QUOTE=Tendrin;4335417 Fortunately, Hillary is not Bill but it's fun to watch you do exactly what I said you'd do.[/QUOTE]

Just quoting myself here since you're still doing it.

[WestPhillyPunisher]

But its so much easier to decry all who voted for Trump as racist and unintelligent rather than perhaps see that they didn't feel like Hilary Clinton cared one bit for them since they were the rural white working class rather than the urban coastal elites and minorities. Hilary Clinton never even tried to appeal the white working class, the only time she acknowledged them was when she called them deplorable. It cost her the election. I don't think Trump actually cares either but he at least tried to appeal to them.

Oh, PLEASE! Trump was just feeding those people bullshit, telling them what they wanted to hear so they'd vote for him. It's damn hard for someone born to wealth like Trump who's never struggled for so much as a day to emphasize with and understand the plight of the poor and middle class. And to this day, he STILL doesn't give a ****. By the by, yeah, Trump IS racist and unintelligent, despite that diploma his daddy bought him from Penn.

[PwrdOn]

But its so much easier to decry all who voted for Trump as racist and unintelligent rather than perhaps see that they didn't feel like Hilary Clinton cared one bit for them since they were the rural white working class rather than the urban coastal elites and minorities. Hilary Clinton never even tried to appeal the white working class, the only time she acknowledged them was when she called them deplorable. It cost her the election. I don't think Trump actually cares either but he at least tried to appeal to them.

I'm not sure what elections you been voting in, but pretty much every politician with presidential aspirations has to pander to rural whites, because the electoral system gives them disproportional weight, and not by accident. The real question is, who the hell is speaking up for the rest of us?

[GOLGO 13]

Nazi's recognize Trump as one of their own.

[Xheight]

Nazi's recognize Trump as one of their own.

Is that the plural of Nazi? But really is that the issue they are out there anyway the real question is how he built a coalition of left-behind blue-collar whites with leize fare capitalists?

In a fascinating article https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...hiteshift-book about a new book, “Whiteshift: Populism, Immigration, and the Future of White Majorities,” by Eric Kaufmann—a professor of politics at Birkbeck College, University of London is a suggestion that taking the issue of violence seriously might mean reconsidering the place of race in our discourse and by that not pretending that White people are just going to go away.

[Xheight]

The Republicans who keep fighting tooth and nail against paying anyone a living wage?

Seriously, is every day opposite day on your planet?

Everyday is a good day to dump truisms for actual thinking. Like the fantasy that either party is fighting for the working man. In urban areas replete with Democratic machines the battles for raising the minimum wage has been uphill and even defeated. Initiative 77 was a Washington, D.C. voter-approved ballot initiative to phase out the minimum wage exemption for tipped employees. On June 19, 2018, the measure was passed by a more than 10% margin. YET overturned by a council and Mayor in a safely Democratic city.

[Tendrin]

"Both parties are totally just as bad, guys!"