T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Ezyo1000]

Granted they weren't comic book writers when they started, but Hudlin and Coates obviously weren't experienced comic book writers when they got the BP gig and they went on to become the two most commercially sucessful BP writers. Roxane Gay winning an Eisner for best limited series arguably ain't nothing to sneeze at either.

Yes, there is a valid arguement for hiring experiened A list creative teams rather than high profile black writers. But the point I don't think it's entirely fair to argue marvel doesn't believe black characters sell. I think the fact that they are not only pushing black characters but also black creative teams demonstrates that they think otherwise. You can like or dislike the books obviously... but that's a seperate issue from arguing they don't believe black characters sell.

Ah yes 2015 onward, where you get award's based on. Your name and agenda and not on the quality of your work. Hudlin was inexperienced but knew how to put a script together and it showed. Coates and gay have been riding on their recognition fame. The Eisner award in my book is a meaningless award given gays series was some of the worst writing I have ever seen. Lifetime movie bad, super cringey, and insulting to LGBT by using the worst stereotypes for the story. That book was bad on all levels.

[MindofShadow]

If these are the first issues, is the team officially formed yet?

No.

And it was a plot point that Cap kept overtalking/trying to lead over Havok over and over.

Not really an apples to apples comparison

[Ezyo1000]

I think what Ezyo is saying (in part) is what Hudlin said last year, that comics are often dead last in getting their **** together when it comes to inclusiveness and not being racist/sexist/narrow-minded fukkboys.

Look at Coates BP before the movie and after the movie. Look at the "effort" (some of it still being half assed" after the movie.) Its like they just realized they have a cool character. If he looked like Hawkeye, they would've been known that.

That's actually not the direction I was going with my qualifier posts, but yall kinda said fukk all that high level mainstream media talk lol

Exactly, Hudlin was on point and that's basically what I was getting at. If Marvel really cared they wouldn't let x office be as petty as they have been and they would of been looking for top tier talent to scribe BP and they would of had a separate office for BP with a point man (Redjack) handling business

[Mike_Murdock]

What I said was they are out of that mindset and thus embrace afrofuturism to it's fullest Whereas the comics side isn't acting with that sort of mindset and it shows

Are the only comics that demonstrate a belief that black comics would sell Afrofuturist comics?

[dkrook]

Granted they weren't comic book writers when they started, but Hudlin and Coates obviously weren't experienced comic book writers when they got the BP gig and they went on to become the two most commercially sucessful BP writers. Roxane Gay winning an Eisner for best limited series arguably ain't nothing to sneeze at either.

Yes, there is a valid arguement for hiring experiened A list creative teams rather than high profile black writers. But the point I don't think it's entirely fair to argue marvel doesn't believe black characters sell. I think the fact that they are not only pushing black characters but also black creative teams demonstrates that they think otherwise. You can like or dislike the books obviously... but that's a seperate issue from arguing they don't believe black characters sell.

2 words for you brotha....Blue Marvel! With every chance to do big things with him they pull Sentry out and gave him a series.

[XPac]

2 words for you brotha....Blue Marvel! With every chance to do big things with him they pull Sentry out and gave him a series.

Sentry has more solo books, but Blue Marvel (in large part due to Ewing liking the character) was published more regularly than Sentry in the past couple of years due to Mighty Avengers and Ultimates.

I honestly am a fan of both characters, and I don't think either have been used in any sort of significant way in a long long time. Marvel is getting a bit too overcrowded with that archetype of character. Hyperion at this point is probably more likely to get used in a story in need of that sort of character than either of the other two.

[DragonsChi]

I'm not sure why cover placement is being made into a big deal. If the characters is chosen as the leader or whatever else in the group it's what actually happens in the book that is important. It's extremely rare fans, media, or anything else goes "Oh remember that cover where Spiderman was climbing a wall while a cop was pointing at him?" No, what they will remember is that in that story Spider-Man once again had to prove his innocence and save the day.

Comic covers server only three major purposes:
1) Help Sell The Book By Looking Pretty
2) Inform Consumers Of The Price
3) To Inform The Reader Of The Primary Creative Team Is On The Tittle

And thats it. Half the time whats on the cover never even happens in the actual book.

I don't know to me it seems that there are other things going on with the Black Panther than cover placement on an Avengers title to be concerned with. *shrug*

[Ezyo1000]

I'm not sure why cover placement is being made into a big deal. If the characters is chosen as the leader or whatever else in the group it's what actually happens in the book that is important. It's extremely rare fans, media, or anything else goes "Oh remember that cover where Spiderman was climbing a wall while a cop was pointing at him?" No, what they will remember is that in that story Spider-Man once again had to prove his innocence and save the day.

Comic covers server only three major purposes:
1) Help Sell The Book By Looking Pretty
2) Inform Consumers Of The Price
3) To Inform The Reader Of The Primary Creative Team Is On The Tittle

And thats it. Half the time whats on the cover never even happens in the actual book.

I don't know to me it seems that there are other things going on with the Black Panther than cover placement on an Avengers title to be concerned with. *shrug*

it's not just cover placement, the topic has gone more then just that. Another conversation was just going on highlighting other issues

[DragonsChi]

it's not just cover placement, the topic has gone more then just that. Another conversation was just going on highlighting other issues

I understand, I did read those but the root (or start) of the issue is the cover. Right now Aaron is writing the Avengers as simple pieces to be moved about when necessary. No one character seems (at least to me) be taking precedence as someone being more or less in charge of the group. T'Challa is currently the chairman of the Avenger's. Historically, that meant the person holds meetings, makes final call's in discussions that have gotten out of hand within the group, put things up to vote and so on. It also tends to mean that in the field they do take some lead but that is at times spread amongst other members of the group. This has been true even when Captain America was the chairman of the group. If Iron Man, Hawkeye, and I do believe even T'Challa had a solid plan or suggestion on what to do in a situation Captain America went along with it. So far that seems to be the case...

I know I do not comment often but I am always reading this thread. The current topic just seemed a little odd for how long it has been going on for.

[Cville]

I'm not sure why cover placement is being made into a big deal. If the characters is chosen as the leader or whatever else in the group it's what actually happens in the book that is important. It's extremely rare fans, media, or anything else goes "Oh remember that cover where Spiderman was climbing a wall while a cop was pointing at him?" No, what they will remember is that in that story Spider-Man once again had to prove his innocence and save the day.

Comic covers server only three major purposes:
1) Help Sell The Book By Looking Pretty
2) Inform Consumers Of The Price
3) To Inform The Reader Of The Primary Creative Team Is On The Tittle

And thats it. Half the time whats on the cover never even happens in the actual book.

I don't know to me it seems that there are other things going on with the Black Panther than cover placement on an Avengers title to be concerned with. *shrug*

Main covers convey what the story inside is potentially about. If someone saw it and wasn't keeping up they'd see an Avengers book that looks like Cap is leading. So at worst Marvel is trying to be disrespectful. The next step up is they're trying to pull a fast one on non Avengers subscribers.

[DragonsChi]

Main covers convey what the story inside is potentially about. If someone saw it and wasn't keeping up they'd see an Avengers book that looks like Cap is leading. So at worst Marvel is trying to be disrespectful. The next step up is they're trying to pull a fast one on non Avengers subscribers.

Not really. Main covers can show who might be in the book but if you have been reading comics for any length of time you know that often times main covers are used to just move books.

It also doesn't make sense that Marvel is trying to be disrespectful to a character they are using to help sell the book and are locked in other methods of merchandising. What would they possibly gain from being disrespectful in this situation.

Martian Manhunter is the current leader of the Justice League (doing a good job too. First time I have actually found him interesting)




And he is not in the center of any of these covers. But he is getting a lot of play in the book and again being used as a valued and important member of the team. So far even in spite of Aaron's mediocre writing T'Challa is getting the same. So ...ya not really seeing it. But that is just me.

[DragonsChi]

Just some more examples.....

The Wasp was the Leader of this group of Avengers:




And she kicked A$$ in this series. This cemented her as incredible leader and hero in my mind. But she wasn't in the center of every cover. But people still reference her time her as a must read.

[Cville]

Just some more examples.....

The Wasp was the Leader of this group of Avengers:




And she kicked A$$ in this series. This cemented her as incredible leader and hero in my mind. But she wasn't in the center of every cover. But people still reference her time her as a must read.

If these are full team covers and Wasp is offical the leader at the time of release, than I would also say they are being disrespectful to her.

[XPac]

Just some more examples.....

The Wasp was the Leader of this group of Avengers:




And she kicked A$$ in this series. This cemented her as incredible leader and hero in my mind. But she wasn't in the center of every cover. But people still reference her time her as a must read.

Funny thing about that story is that it had a super dynamic Wasp, and a very low key Steve (for understandable reasons).

Still, I think the visual of Steve with the shield just tends to come naturally to the forefront. When the Avengers posed in that sort of manner, you're almost expecting Steve to yell "Avengers Assemble."

I get the criticism about it though.

[DragonsChi]

If these are full team covers and Wasp is offical the leader at the time of release, than I would also say they are being disrespectful to her.

One of them isn't the full team but the others are... but you didn't mention the JLA covers which is interesting.

I also think that your idea of a team book is somewhat flawed. But I blame that on how Marvel has been writing them lately. A team book should be the place where you get to see you favorite heroes interact as a TEAM. No one character regardless of role should outshine the other. But lately, mostly in the X-Books, the Leader has been written as the leader singer in a band while the everyone else is their backup dancers. (It's a wonder why Marvel keeps questioning their decreasing sales each year when the answer is staring them in the face so often)

Anyway, in a team setting the covers are just to show the group or members of said group looking cool so the company can peak interest and sell books. There is a multitude of comics where the leader is not front an center. This should not be an ongoing debate.

More examples :



The leader at the time is not in the center of any of these either.

Funny thing about that story is that it had a super dynamic Wasp, and a very low key Steve (for understandable reasons).

Still, I think the visual of Steve with the shield just tends to come naturally to the forefront. When the Avengers posed in that sort of manner, you're almost expecting Steve to yell "Avengers Assemble."

I get the criticism about it though.

Yeah, Cap barely did anything in that book. He had a solid arch but that was mostly due to the writers way of crafty the story. By enlarge Captain America was forgettable in that story.

But yeah whatever is going to sell books and looks cool is going to be on the cover. A man in bright red and blue colors tends to be eye grabby which is partially what this fuss may be all about.