Avengers 20, we are at peak Aaron people!

[Prof. Warren]

Never said it wasn't well received by some, so is the big Mac but for all it's applauds, it's not selling especially more than say JMS sold, and wotr isn't doing better really than previous Thor centric books.

JMS wrote barely a handful of Thor issues over ten years ago.

To try and compare JMS' Thor to Aaron's run is absolutely ridiculous.

JMS was on the book barely more than a year and it was in a much different marketplace at that.

Sure it's popular, but it's not especially popular.

Thor has never had the kind of sustained popularity that he has under Aaron so trying to qualify the success of the run by saying "well, it's popular but, you know, it's not really that popular" is just trying to ignore the reality that, according to the marketplace, Aaron has done very well by the character. Haters of his run can continue to bitter about it but at the end of the day, Aaron has a historic Thor run to his name.

[Prof. Warren]

Oh, so "reading between the lines" is a privilege that you can grant yourself but not for others? Do as I say not as I do?

If you want to complain about "faux wokeness", it's not putting words in your mouth to say you resent Aaron's SJW agenda.

"Otherwise we just have to form opinions" I'm forming options based on the issue. You are doing the same thing, but feel that only you should have that right.

No, I think my opinions can be better supported by reasonable thinking.

Your opinion that Aaron is doing nothing more than cynically peddling an ideological agenda he doesn't even really believe in has less merit to it than my opinion that he is genuinely invested in his work and you just happen not to like it.

Spoke too soon :/

If you think most writers don't start with characters and work outward, I don't know what to tell you.

Especially a writer like Aaron who clearly is about taking characters through long, transformative arcs.

[Ultimate Captain America]

It seems that Mallory Book was right all along...



The defense rests its case.

[Ptrvc]

If you want to complain about "faux wokeness", it's not putting words in your mouth to say you resent Aaron's SJW agenda.



No, I think my opinions can be better supported by reasonable thinking.

Your opinion that Aaron is doing nothing more than cynically peddling an ideological agenda he doesn't even really believe in has less merit to it than my opinion that he is genuinely invested in his work and you just happen not to like it.



If you think most writers don't start with characters and work outward, I don't know what to tell you.

Especially a writer like Aaron who clearly is about taking characters through long, transformative arcs.

She-Hulk was never a victim, until Aaron turned her into one.

[Prof. Warren]

She-Hulk was never a victim, until Aaron turned her into one.

To look at Jen's history from today's perspective and suggest that maybe she wasn't as cool with the kind of attention she received as she let on, is an observation worth exploring.

It's not about simply turning her into a "victim."

[Ptrvc]

To look at Jen's history from today's perspective and suggest that maybe she wasn't as cool with the kind of attention she received as she let on, is an observation worth exploring.

It's not about simply turning her into a "victim."

No it isn't.

It's super lame.

Have her punch some bad guys or something.

[Prof. Warren]

No it isn't.

It's super lame.

Have her punch some bad guys or something.

As I've said, I think the complaints about this issue only serve to enforce exactly what Jen's talking about.

[InformationGeek]

To look at Jen's history from today's perspective and suggest that maybe she wasn't as cool with the kind of attention she received as she let on, is an observation worth exploring.

It's not about simply turning her into a "victim."

Sure but it's not here. It's just lip service. You don't bring up something this heavy and real this clumsily. Aaron isn't going to explore this idea because that's not the type of book he is writing.

As such, all it is now is just to make her into victim of sexual harrassment. It's just about adding more trauma to a female character to support the writer's own vision and decisions.

[jwatson]

Sure but it's not here. It's just lip service. You don't bring up something this heavy and real this clumsily. Aaron isn't going to explore this idea because that's not the type of book he is writing.

As such, all it is now is just to make her into victim of sexual harrassment. It's just about adding more trauma to a female character to support the writer's own vision and decisions.

ONe could say the same about Bruce. Him being abused as a child was added to make him a victim of abuse to support the writer's own vision and decisions on why Bruce was so full of rage.

[kilderkin]

So i guess people go through with assisted suicide didn't decide to take their own lives as well? If i hand someone a gun and say if i cross that street kill me with this gun and i start to cross that street and they shoot me. I kind of took my own life.

I really don't think that's the same, I appreciate your point but banner was planning for the eventuality of a his loss of control of what is effectively an organic womd, which he can't fully control, more so it was a last resort for when he could not act to stop it himself

There might be some similarities, but they are much more distant than I feel you imply

[jwatson]

Also in today's world. I can guarantee if there was a SheHulk movie in the mainstream MCU this Shehulk would get far more attention for the right reasons than a movie about a fun and sexy green bombshell that is less powerful than her male counterpart.

[Prof. Warren]

Sure but it's not here. It's just lip service. You don't bring up something this heavy and real this clumsily. Aaron isn't going to explore this idea because that's not the type of book he is writing.

You've already read ahead and know how Aaron is going to explore this idea?

I'll have to wait and see it play out myself.

As such, all it is now is just to make her into victim of sexual harrassment. It's just about adding more trauma to a female character to support the writer's own vision and decisions.

Well, every choice made with a character is to support the writer's own vision and decisions. How those choices and decisions are received is up to individual readers to decide.

Again, though, I feel the complaints only enforce the point being made in the issue. There's some people who just don't want to hear it when a woman speaks up about mistreatment. They want her to be quiet about it, to keep being outwardly happy and shrug it off. I think this is a very interesting journey to put Jen on and it's a perspective that hasn't really been explored in comics.

[kilderkin]

JMS wrote barely a handful of Thor issues over ten years ago.

To try and compare JMS' Thor to Aaron's run is absolutely ridiculous.

JMS was on the book barely more than a year and it was in a much different marketplace at that.



Thor has never had the kind of sustained popularity that he has under Aaron so trying to qualify the success of the run by saying "well, it's popular but, you know, it's not really that popular" is just trying to ignore the reality that, according to the marketplace, Aaron has done very well by the character. Haters of his run can continue to bitter about it but at the end of the day, Aaron has a historic Thor run to his name.

The JMS comparison is fine, but if your going to insist on similar lengths of run, look back at the numbers for Walt, as for marketplace, well that's just the rub of the green

And how popular is it, what do the numbers of Thor's book show, is it consistently top five, top ten, top twenty,

And with regard to market place, no other writer had an MCU raising their character profile

The underlying truth is, that is spite of all the fanfare, it doesn't sell much better than prior runs in any period relatively to the current market place

Is talked about sure, but the numbers aren't there to show it stand out in the current market, even the event isn't doing especially well,

[Triniking1234]

Oh my god, this issue is getting my headache. Plus side though, I'll have a lot to write about for an article.

There's just so much to unpack here that it needs a full analysis and detailed thoughts about what went wrong.

I'm actually looking forward to that.

[GodThor]

Thor's most "successful" run ever by Aaron has been debunked recently in Thor thread.