Pick A Direction: Tim Drake

[Talon1load]

Tim can't keep jacking Jason's id's. Also why keep taking the id of someone who tried to kill you several times? It doesn't make Tim look Mentally sound.

They reconciled years ago. He already took the Red Robin identity from Jason so saying he shouldn’t because he tried to kill him a long time ago doesn’t make sense.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I don't think Tim should be Nightwing as Damian becoming Nightwing is a stronger play.

I'm not too fond of him becoming a spy but if you bring a new angle to the idea, it could work.

[godisawesome]

I'll confess that my immediate reaction, as a fan of the Red Robin solo, was to just say "rehire Fabian Nicieza for the book and tell him to pick up where he left off," but I'm not quite that blind to issues with the character by that point, so...

Tim Drake, Red Robin, is a veteran vigilante and former partner to Batman, who generally has a great chemistry with anyone in the Batfamily not named Damian or Jason, since he and the former just have complete teeth clenched teamwork in part because of their similarities, while he and the latter have issues based more off Tim trying to manipulate Jason into being useful and Jason having issues with Tim's hypocrisy.

Because here's the thing about Tim; he's kind of a workaholic mess trying to manipulate events for everyone's benefit, and ends up making decisions that range from good to... questionable. For instance, both his parents are alive, but Tim is clearly a bit paranoid and guilt ridden because they've been targeted (and in Jack's case, severely injured) thanks to him, so he's been spending less and less time with them and becoming more and more of a cell-phone only kid, even though it's hurting him and his parents. A major point of his first few arcs would be that he tries to mislead Bruce and everyone else as to how distant he's getting from them, and eventually gets forced to go and see them because Bruce knows it's not healthy to be worried sick about someone if you won't also show them you love them.

This whole "disconnected" thing basically defines Tim's approach to crime fighting... And his flaws. Dick could pull double duty as a spy chief and secret agent, but Tim? He wants to be a handler, fielding numerous assets of varying degrees of morality, and constantly recruits new ones through coercion, conversion, and occasionally blackmail. The upside? Tim manages to compromise and destroy whole organizations and crime syndicates with a few well placed instructions (and the occasional go staff strike). The downside? He's going to put too much pressure on some of his assets, or overreach, and pay the cost. Overall, he's an effective "mastermind saboteur," who maybe accidentally looses an asset or creates his own villain once.

His rogues gallery tends more towards the cerebral and cunning, as does his supporting cast. When Steph is around, her cleverness and stealth abilities are emphasized, while he tends to have a quiet game of witty one-ups-manship with Damian, his mom is generally quite skilled at picking apart his lies and obfuscations so that he tells her the truth, and his allies/assets include Prudence and Lynx from his solo. His enemies include a new version of King Snake running the Golden Dragons who's more pragmatic and cunning (he suspects one of his liutenants is spying on him and acts accordingly, so Tim has to help cover for Lynx), the Bad Samaritan from the Outsiders comic as someone he's trying to get captured by someone who will hold him, and Penguin and Bane as his main-roster Rogues he crosses over with (Penguin is his pet project to capture since he's the one who attacked his family, while Bane is the villain who keeps humbling him and leaving him alive for the challenge he can muster.)

Most story arcs pose a conflict where Tim's objective is not to capture a villain or solve a crime, but instead to compromise and wound a major operation so that the cops can start taking it down. So usually, the appeal is seeing how he's doing that. And when things go wrong, he has to start using his wits at a heightened rate and deal with unexpected consequences.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Somehow, Tim gets dunked into the chemicals that made Joker and Harley…and he becomes the (heroic) jesteR!

He would have (at least) 2 personalities…one very analytical, deductive genius and the other very playful, creative genius. Maybe he has different odd sensory powers with his different personalities similar to Crazy Jane. This would result in the Bats having to deal with a family member who has developed a ‘mental challenge’ of sorts. How do they relate to someone they once knew but now he has new personalities? I can see Stephanie staying with him and altering her Spoiler identity to resemble a ‘clown girl’.

I chose the Jester alias because the golden-age Jester has the same colors as Robin: red, green, black and yellow.

On the other hand, I also like the Flamebird and Drake, super spy ideas also.

I like it.

maybe you could give him Dissociative Identity disorder and focus on how he would cope?

[Timothy Hunter]

Somehow, Tim gets dunked into the chemicals that made Joker and Harley…and he becomes the (heroic) jesteR!

He would have (at least) 2 personalities…one very analytical, deductive genius and the other very playful, creative genius. Maybe he has different odd sensory powers with his different personalities similar to Crazy Jane. This would result in the Bats having to deal with a family member who has developed a ‘mental challenge’ of sorts. How do they relate to someone they once knew but now he has new personalities? I can see Stephanie staying with him and altering her Spoiler identity to resemble a ‘clown girl’.

I chose the Jester alias because the golden-age Jester has the same colors as Robin: red, green, black and yellow.

On the other hand, I also like the Flamebird and Drake, super spy ideas also.

This idea is interesting. I don't want this to happen in main continuity, it would make an interesting elseworlds.

Also why not call him the Creeper? What you described fits the persona. (In BTAS continuity the Creeper came to be via the same process that made the joker, as you had described.)

[Fergus]

They reconciled years ago. He already took the Red Robin identity from Jason so saying he shouldn’t because he tried to kill him a long time ago doesn’t make sense.

He shouldn't not just because he tried to kill him [and they reconciled as much as Tim reconciled with Damian imo] but because why would he? Damian becoming Nightwing there's a reason. It makes sense. Tim taking on a Jason mantle Why? its not to honour him they don't have a special relationship. There is no reason for Tim to take on a Jason id especially AK. Tim taking RR id for Jason made about as much sense as everything about Tim in the new52.

[Godlike13]

Tim taking on Arkham Knight makes as much sense as Jason or Tim taking on Red Robin.

[oasis1313]

This idea is interesting. I don't want this to happen in main continuity, it would make an interesting elseworlds.

Also why not call him the Creeper? What you described fits the persona. (In BTAS continuity the Creeper came to be via the same process that made the joker, as you had described.)

Or how about: The Stalker?

[Fergus]

I think its at least possible that you are missing the point and the intent of what I was saying, but the point is moot as its not something I'm particularly attached to. Have you ever seen a situation where an average athlete (average arm strength at best, no speed, no size, not capable of making a big play with either his arm or his feet) ends up beating out a far more athletically impressive qb? People arent stoked and coaches come under fire for it. I think it would be fun in a Tim-in-high-school book. It would be funny to see him still be awkward even though he's in a position that is supposed to be cool. In a book where the main character is a normal kid who *works with Batman* being on the football team is hardly the most wish fulfilling detail. It also wouldn't make him a Mary Sue, because I didn't say I want him to be Tom Brady or anything. Quarterback controversy are fun reading IRL. The story isn't a no brainer, but it has its merits. Not sure if Friday Night Lights is particularly popular with the comic book buying demographic either.

I'm not sure that Damian would take up an identity other than Robin. For example, right now Tim Drake is once again going to be called Robin, but I haven't seen anything say that they are going to change Damian's mantle. Unless they age him into the 18+ range, I don't see him being called anything but Robin, and even then I'd be a bit surprised to see it. But yeah, Connor Kent, or another Kryptonian, as Flamebird would be fantastic.




Also, the more I think about the zaniness of Chimp and Tim's detective agency, the more I love it. It should at least be an esleworld mini. At least.

I just mean that just like Tim's tenure as Robin was erased in New 52. There likely will come a time when Damian, Duke anyone not called Dick will get the same treatment as DC stars afresh for a new generation. Of course i'm talking decades from now.

I very well might be misunderstanding you and the story pitch. It just sounds fanciful to me.

[Fergus]

Or how about: The Stalker?

He is an excellent stalker with the pictures to prove it.
The Chimp and Drake Agency stuff sounds good but I don't like the suggestions of Tim becoming a Spy. That is Dick Grayson. Why is it so hard to come up with new ideas that don't borrow from existing characters? Tim needs a Red Hood or a Signal something new that is all his own.

[Fergus]

Make him an international spy instead of Grayson.

No. Tim doesn't fit that role.

[CPSparkles]

Please don't make him a Spy that's Dick's thing. Tim would suck miserably at being a Spy. Agent 37 is all the spy we want and need. While we are at it lets make him Spoiler.

I hope now fans can appreciate DC's position. Not so easy to come up with ideas that aren't stolen, rip offs or cop outs.
I don't have a problem with him going back to YJ and becoming Robin. They need to rebuild his history which right now is pretty much blank or full of holes. 16 year old Tim can't open an agency or become a spy out of nowhere.He can't work with Detective Chimp if he is new to the hero community.

I think Bendis has the right idea. Tim right now doesn't need exciting direction he needs a foundation that makes sense.

[Restingvoice]

It doesn't make a complete set of the Batfamily. How does it?

That all Robins are Bruce's kids.

How did he come off as hating Jack?

[babybats]

Speaking of the RR name, I've always wondered why the writers and editorial let it happen at all considering the restaurant is the first thing people are going to think of. I get that it's a throwback to Jason, it keeps Tim as a Robin even if he's not "the" Robin, etc. But surely they knew it would sound stupid?? Have any of the people involved in that decision explained what they were thinking?

What about a scenario where Tim puts down the vigilante tights for a bit to go to college and try to do the civilian thing. But people in the super community keep coming to him with mysteries and asking for sleuthing help. At first it's just friends from his generation, but he develops a reputation and suddenly people like Plastic Man and Shazam show up with their sci-fi magical locked room murders. They don't know he's Tim or RR, they just know him as The Consultant.

Design-wise, his "costume" would be either a full face mask with a strong design (V for Vendetta, Japanese festival masks, Court of Owls, etc.), or a big scarf that covers his lower face, and the rest is regular clothes, whatever he's wearing that day. A casual but striking look. Supporting cast would be Steph, his parents, and new characters he meets at school. Rotating roster of guest characters, heroes and villains. There's also an ongoing mystery at his university, like a grown up Gotham Academy.

[CPSparkles]

That all Robins are Bruce's kids.

How did he come off as hating Jack?

Dick Grayson
Jason Todd

Their surname isn't Wayne but it never stopped them from being Bruce's sons. They were his sons before Damian and Tim

Tim becoming Tim Wayne I wasn't a fan of. I see why Damian is Damian Wayne. I don't see why Tim briefly became Tim Wayne. I suspect it never would have happened if Damian wasn't introduced.

Tim changing his surname made them less of a set because now we have an anomaly. Why didn't the others change their name