Do the best women of Marvel come from the X-Men brand?

[Beaddle]

Fair point. Heck, my favorite female superhero is X-23. Thing is, I just don't think that X-Men has a monopoly on the best female characters. Heck, they don't even have the most iconic female superhero at all. That would be DC's Wonder Woman, who doesn't really have a rival.

I never said they have a monopoly on it. having the presumed best does not mean you have a monopoly, to be honest, I think it is split between X-Men females and batman females. Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Thalia, Zantana, Batgirl and Batwoman.

Kinda interesting that Marvel never really got their own Wonder Woman, the way they have Spider-Man as an answer to Superman (although maybe they can leverage the success of the Captain Marvel movie to put Carol Danvers there?). On the X-Men, Wolverine is the only one who's had great success as a solo character.*

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol. Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be seen as such to batman and spiderman because he lacked prominence in comics and other media for decades.

there is something about carol that has never clicked. first in the comics, now in the movies. rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikable too so is the character. It was the same feedback in marvel vs capcom with carol.

I know you don't know much about marvel comics but Sue Storm, Storm and Phoenix would have more claim as the wonder woman of marvel than carol ever would. Even Kitty prdye and they don't have a disney billion dollar movie as back up.

On the X-Men, Wolverine is the only one who's had great success as a solo character.*

Deadpool, Magneto? X-Men are not meant to be solos they are supposed to be xmen. a plural. they mostly work best that way because xmen was created as a comic soap opera. it' s like saying luke or han solo works better as a solo character? what most xmen characters have like kitty pryde, rogue, gambit, emma frost, nightcrawler, deadpool, storm or cable or even Dazzler is a strong cult following.

Many xmen characters like Cable, Magneto, Gambit, Cyclops/Phoenix, Bishop, Storm, Emma would have found even more success as solos far more than mcu characters if Fox had a full brain or disney had the rights to xmen first and gave them the avengers set up but that is not how xmen is meant to operate either so it can be very tricky.

*Granted, X-23 is primarily a solo character or small team one, too, but, despite standing on her own two feet as her own character, I don't think she's quite hit superstar status yet and is seen as a Wolverine spinoff.

She seems more liked than Carol though that mcu is pushing to be their wonder woman.

James Mangold should have just made his X23 movie. if he did, carol won't be in the discussion at all

[powerpax]

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol. Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be as such to batman and spiderman.

Yeah, the kids will be forgetting Iron Man any day now thanks to Incoming Batman #7.

there is something about carol that has never clicked first in the comics, now in the movies. first rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikeable too.

I've definitely never heard these talking points before. I'm sure you're right tho, the Rogue solo movie is on the way.

[Beaddle]

Yeah, the kids will be forgetting Iron Man any day now thanks to Incoming Batman #7.


.

I don't want this thread to go off the rails so I will only say this once. its kind of true. iron man is a b list hero with no movies. spiderman and batman have been A lists for 60-80 years in movies, cartoons, video games, comics, merchandise. Also with disney handling the character on screen , there is a good chance kids won't even care in 10 years and would move on to comic characters or movies that had a more mature appeal to the iron man movies. Enter many things Batman or Spiderman.

I've definitely never heard these talking points before.

Really? I don't even care much about carol but I heard everything. RT had to shut down the audience rt score of captain marvel and so much went on. Apparently brie also was not well liked by the other avengers cast. here is one.



Did you know mcu almost wrote her out of endgame because they were scared of a backlash? that was why she had little screen time.

I'm sure you're right tho, the Rogue solo movie is on the way.

If Fox had a full brain and the marketing genius of the Disney cinematic universe, A Rogue solo would not be a problem. On paper its a better concept because rogue is more interesting and has more depth than carol as a character with far more feminism and womanhood issues on rogue's corner.

[Snoop Dogg]

[Agent Z]

I mean, gosh, of all the Avengers to focus on, let's pick someone who has no powers, who joined ELEVEN YEARS LATER, and who is not only not the first, but not even the second woman to be an Avenger. Similarly, of all the Guardians of the Galaxy, let's ignore frikkin' Moondragon, who can mind control a planet, beat down Galactus' psychic shields, and control Thor for an extended time, for Gamora, whose super-power was, for most of her career, 'Has a knife,' and, much like the Black Widow as an Avenger, has the dubious honor of being one of the *least* super people on the super-team...

If not having super powers was an issue, Batman would not be popular. And audiences don't care who was on the team originally (Really by that logic Captain America shouldn't have been in the movie either). Note that you only explained what Moondragon can do not who she is as a person.

The idea that Black Widow and Gamora are unworthy of being in movies because of their lack of super powers is silly.

[powerpax]

RT had to shut down the audience rt score of captain marvel and so much went on.

Yes, because it was being brigaded by trolls.

Not interested in incel adjacent YT videos making imaginary shit up but you're welcome to believe what you like. Back to the X-Women!

[WebLurker]

I never said they have a monopoly on it. having the presumed best does not mean you have a monopoly, to be honest, I think it is split between X-Men females and batman females. Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Thalia, Zantana, Batgirl and Batwoman.

Yeah, can see Batman having a good claim to it.

Rogue actually has more presence and acknowledgement in the media and geek culture than Carol.

Have you ever been introduced to the Skeptical Hippo?

Her billion dollar movie can be easily dismissed as another processed mcu product with no lasting longevity even Iron Man can still be seen as such to batman and spiderman because he lacked prominence in comics and other media for decades.

No.

there is something about carol that has never clicked. first in the comics, now in the movies. rogue steals her power in the comics but people ended up liking rogue more than carol, second her movie comes out, the actress does not do a good job a it and she somehow created controversies everywhere she went, many find her unlikable too so is the character. It was the same feedback in marvel vs capcom with carol.

Echo chambers aren't a good place to get your info.

I know you don't know much about marvel comics...

I know you don't know much about me, case in point.

...but Sue Storm, Storm and Phoenix would have more claim as the wonder woman of marvel than carol ever would. Even Kitty prdye and they don't have a disney billion dollar movie as back up.

Maybe, although I have serious reservations about F4's relevance in the here and now and Phoenix is a piece of the X-Men puzzle (as is Kitty Pryde). Captain Marvel is her own brand and I think could become Marvel's Wonder Woman. Not a given and that remains to be seen, but a possibility. Considering she's going to be a big player in the MCU going forward, that just might happen. (Say what you will about the Marvel movies, but they are the kingmakers for characters right now.)

Deadpool, Magneto? X-Men are not meant to be solos they are supposed to be xmen. a plural. they mostly work best that way because xmen was created a comic soap opera. it' s like saying luke or han solo works better as a solo character? what most xmen characters have like kitty pryde, rogue, gambit, emma frost, nightcrawler, deadpool, storm or cable or even Dazzler is a strong cult following.

Many xmen characters like Cable, Magneto, Gambit, Cyclops/Phoenix, Bishop, Storm, Emma would have found even more success as solos far more than mcu characters if Fox had a full brain or disney had the rights to xmen first and gave them the avengers set up but that is not how xmen is meant to operate either so it can be very tricky.

Forgot about Deadpool then. Yeah, good point. Actually, come to think of it, he became his own thing even more the Wolverine. Obvious question from all this, can a "Wonder Woman" character be a team character first and foremost or should they have to be a solo one to get the title?

She seems more liked than Carol though that mcu is pushing to be their wonder woman.

?

James Mangold should have just made his X23 movie. if he did, carol won't be in the discussion at all

Yeah, he should've been able to make his movie, but since Fox and Marvel Studios were separate entities at the time, X-23 getting on the big screen as the lead would have nothing to do with Captain Marvel not getting her own thing. Heck, I'd love to see both get their own series down the line.

[Electricmastro]

Kinda interesting that Marvel never really got their own Wonder Woman, the way they have Spider-Man as an answer to Superman (although maybe they can leverage the success of the Captain Marvel movie to put Carol Danvers there?). On the X-Men, Wolverine is the only one who's had great success as a solo character.*

I'd say Storm has come the closest. Wolverine, Cable, and X-Man have had the most success as X-Men-related heroes in terms of their own solo books though.

[MYCMTSC]

The X-Office hasn’t typically invested much starpower in their solo books (exc Wolverine, X-23, Gambit, and Cable). I think Storm, Rogue, Magik, Kitty, or The Psylockes could sustain a solo book with the right team and push.

[butterflykyss]

The X-Office hasn’t typically invested much starpower in their solo books (exc Wolverine, X-23, Gambit, and Cable). I think Storm, Rogue, Magik, Kitty, or The Psylockes could sustain a solo book with the right team and push.

yes agreed!!

[butterflykyss]

I'd say Storm has come the closest. Wolverine, Cable, and X-Man have had the most success as X-Men-related heroes in terms of their own solo books though.

what about x-23?

[PsychoEFrost]

I don't want this thread to go off the rails so I will only say this once. its kind of true. iron man is a b list hero with no movies. spiderman and batman have been A lists for 60-80 years in movies, cartoons, video games, comics, merchandise. Also with disney handling the character on screen , there is a good chance kids won't even care in 10 years and would move on to comic characters or movies that had a more mature appeal to the iron man movies. Enter many things Batman or Spiderman.



Really? I don't even care much about carol but I heard everything. RT had to shut down the audience rt score of captain marvel and so much went on. Apparently brie also was not well liked by the other avengers cast. here is one.



Did you know mcu almost wrote her out of endgame because they were scared of a backlash? that was why she had little screen time.



If Fox had a full brain and the marketing genius of the Disney cinematic universe, A Rogue solo would not be a problem. On paper its a better concept because rogue is more interesting and has more depth than carol as a character with far more feminism and womanhood issues on rogue's corner.

They shut down the RT fan critics because it received 75,000 1/10 votes 10 days before it released by a bunch of MRA Incels.

[Beaddle]

Yeah, can see Batman having a good claim to it.


.

His comics factually backs up the claim just like X-Men.

Have you ever been introduced to the Skeptical Hippo?

Don't need to. I rather get introduced more to new female characters. speaking of xmen females, in the 2000s Whedon and Morrison even brought in more good females like The Stepforf Cuckoos Ichiki Hisako, Danger and Cassandra Nova.

Sad that disney got so creeped out of not having the xmen rights they told writers to stop creating new characters.

No.

Yes, Why iron man as Spiderman's mentor did not work. It was beneath Spiderman. a bonfide A lister. perhaps the only a lister marvel had that was not X-men and F4.

Maybe, although I have serious reservations about F4's relevance in the here and now and Phoenix is a piece of the X-Men puzzle (as is Kitty Pryde). Captain Marvel is her own brand and I think could become Marvel's Wonder Woman. Not a given and that remains to be seen, but a possibility. Considering she's going to be a big player in the MCU going forward, that just might happen. (Say what you will about the Marvel movies, but they are the kingmakers for characters right now.)

F4 relevance cannot be dismissed even looking at it with the MCU lenses as you are doing. Dr Doom alone has more geek culture presence that rivals Darth Vader.

Captain marvel is her own brand because disney is pushing it and trying to make her happen. it has nothing tot do with her relevance and how iconic she is as a marvel character. there is nothing organic it, its just another billion dollar disney product and an awful one too. her movie belongs with Electra and Catwoman. I think disney wants us to fall in love with her but it seems hard.

Infact many are ready to dismiss her now because disney now has the right to xmen females

If she is going to be a big player, I rather not see her in xmen movies. if she was so hard to be in avengers movies, she would be buried in an xmen movie.

Forgot about Deadpool then. Yeah, good point. Actually, come to think of it, he became his own thing even more the Wolverine. Obvious question from all this, can a "Wonder Woman" character be a team character first and foremost or should they have to be a solo one to get the title?

you can have a solo act and a group act. xmen was created to be a group act. wonder woman is a solo one first, wolverine is a team one first and quite overrated.

Yeah, he should've been able to make his movie, but since Fox and Marvel Studios were separate entities at the time, X-23 getting on the big screen as the lead would have nothing to do with Captain Marvel not getting her own thing. Heck, I'd love to see both get their own series down the line.

looking at Mangold's track record and his skill as a film maker, he would have made a better quality movie than captain marvel and since X23 is more likeable, she would have easily been the female face of marvel pushed more by fans and deep thinking audiences unlike carol that is getting forced on us by the Disney machine. i think it would have been better in the long run because i dont think the female face of marvel should be interchangeable with disney female characters, which is what carol felt like from the promotions.

I see Laura more as the Katniss from Hunger Games. heck, she already had the dystopian background setting.

[Electricmastro]

what about x-23?

Not sure how comparable it is, but yeah, her solo series, counting All-New Wolverine and X-23, are worth mentioning as well.

[Beaddle]

They shut down the RT fan critics because it received 75,000 1/10 votes 10 days before it released by a bunch of MRA Incels.

I think Brie larson needs more lessons on how to talk in public. acting skills too or was it the script?


She lacks empathy unlike Gal Gadot, she lacks grace unlike Famke Janssen and she is not that cute unlike Dafeen Keen. she is lucky to have the disney marvel cinematic kingdom on her side though. That is what is saving her.