Three Convergence spin-offs coming in October: "Superman: Lois and Clark", "Telos", and "Titans Hunt"

[AdamFTF]

They had me at Gnarrk.

[PennyDreadful]

I'm curious: wasn't Lilith/Omen killed off in the new 52 Titans already?

[Harpsikord]

I'm curious: wasn't Lilith/Omen killed off in the new 52 Titans already?

Not killed off, but depowered. I'd say that's likely being retconned.

[GlennSimpson]

I doubt they'll do it, but it would be kinda fun if they used the same plotline to explain Beast Boy's color change to green.

[titanfan]

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 was the only time anyone outside of Roy, Dick and Kory were even suggested to be a part of it and Donna and Wally's were edited out of the issue in later revisions.

In RHATO, references were made to Dick, Cyborg, Aqualad, Gar, and an unknown character named Dustin was mentioned.

Lobdell later said "Dustin" wasn't a mistake--but the mystery of who Dustin was was never expanded upon. (To my knowledge)

[Lee Stone]

The Flamebird line in Batwoman was edited from "I was a Teen Titan, I even fought Deathstroke" to "I was a superhero, I even fought Deathstroke" in the trade. For all intents and purposes, Bette Kane's history is pretty much intact. The Grayson secret origins is intact in the trade.

The editing of all those comics could just be part of the wipe...


Imagine... Triumph could be in the Justice League right now. Instead of Luthor.

Makes you wonder...
Like... what if... people reading JLA pre-Crisis were to have known that Wonder Woman was really Black Canary, even while they were reading the comics with Wonder Woman in them?

Is anything we're reading exactly what we're reading?

In ten to twenty years when there's another reboot, 90% of the comics we're reading right now will not have happened the way we're reading them.

[joybeans]

So we gonna see these folks again?

[byrd156]

So we gonna see these folks again?

I love this panel, also Bette what are you doing with your hand? After re-reading some 70s Titans and Titans Year One I really want the classic Titans back.

Has Dick ever not been a ladies man?

[GlennSimpson]

Has Dick ever not been a ladies man?

The ladies sure do love that Dick!

[fujishig]

I doubt the cover (if it actually is a cover and not a promo-art piece) will change before release date, considering how rare it is for that to happen. It's a finished piece of art after all, a finished product that has the dual job of selling itself by its look and not give away everything inside. The spoiler text however... well that has a history of being changed along the way.

But here is another thought for that cover; what if the New 52 assembly is simply metaphorical group representing us the viewers having moved on in our lives as we all stand around and remember the Teen Titans (the grave) that never were in the New 52?

But they've removed people from covers before...

Wait, the collections are actually edited to remove references like that? Really? Did they edit old-style Lobo out of the collections too?

[Dataweaver]

Batgirl and Harley Quinn had more to to do with the current direction than Convergence. Convergence was just a filler series. Notice that none of these new series involve actually bringing back an old setting. Even Superman is going to some new world, so the detail that he happens to be the pre-Flashpoint Superman is almost just a technicality.

So now you're defining “just a filler series” as “if they don't bring back old settings, it's just filler”? I've always thought that “has lasting consequences” was the touchstone for whether Convergence turns out to be just a filler series; have the goalposts been moved?

The fact that Telos is getting a series means nothing? Telos is going to be world-hopping, based on Convergence Brainiac's capabilities: while he's not the vehicle I would have chosen for such a task, I won't be surprised if his world-hopping includes visits to the supposedly doomed timelines that Convergence featured. (Just speculation; but every bit as valid as your own “none of it matters” speculation, such as Superman's pre-Flashpoint origin not mattering.)

The fact that Earth-0 continuity appears to have been altered by the Convergence (heavily implied by Titans Hunt solicit) means nothing? Granted, Earth-0 desperately needed that edit; the near-complete absence of a first-generation Titans team was a gaping hole — a bloody wound — in Earth-0's continuity. But that doesn't change the fact that they used Convergence as the excuse to stitch it up, which makes the return of a classic Titans lineup to Earth-0's continuity a consequence of Convergence. (Incidentally, yay for the return of Lilith! Now if we could just get the YJ generation back to being Young Justice…)

The fact that Lois, Clark, and Jonathan are back means nothing? Sure, they're living on a different world now; but the proposition that his status as the pre-Flashpoint Superman is “almost just a technicality” is both highly speculative and highly debatable. It's entirely possible that we'll be getting flashbacks to just what the Saviors of the Infinite Earths actually did to save the original Multiverse. For all we know, it's intimately connected to what the Kents are doing on Earth-0 — indeed, the salvation of the original Multiverse may still be something that's on their plate.

Heck, does the fact that the original Multiverse was rescued mean nothing? We now have Earth-M and Multiversity Too, both of which would have been largely impossible even under the fifty-two-Earth Orrery of Worlds that was arguably the full extent of the Multiverse prior to Convergence.

And I'm not convinced that the October solicits provide the full extent of the Convergence spin-offs. These three titles were hinted at in the pages of Convergence itself; we still haven't seen the results of Didio's analysis of the “side issue sales figures”, and I will not be a bit surprised if the November and/or December solicits include more Convergence spin-off titles. It's entirely possible that even the new target you moved the goalposts to will be achieved before the year is out.

[Dataweaver]

RE: Jackson/Kaldur

You do not tell a story about bringing back classic characters (even if updating them a little) by using non-classic characters.

Agreed. I have no problem bringing Jackson/Kaldur into continuity; but I'd use the Teen Titans book to do so, not Titans Hunt.

[Dataweaver]

Incidentally: unless post-Flashpoint Donna's origin is being rewritten, she wasn't one of the kids Dick hung out with back in the day. And I think Wally's being left out due to his current status as a twelve-year-old kid who hasn't (yet) gotten superspeed. I suspect that Lilith's visions that bring these Titans together again (for the first time) might not actually be a vision of Earth-0's post-Flashpoint history; the Convergence may have let her reach into a pre-Flashpoint timeline, with the relevance being that whoever's hunting them either saw the same sorts of visions or comes from a pre-Flashpoint timeline.

[GlennSimpson]

So now you're defining “just a filler series” as “if they don't bring back old settings, it's just filler”? I've always thought that “has lasting consequences” was the touchstone for whether Convergence turns out to be just a filler series; have the goalposts been moved?

The fact that Telos is getting a series means nothing? Telos is going to be world-hopping, based on Convergence Brainiac's capabilities: while he's not the vehicle I would have chosen for such a task, I won't be surprised if his world-hopping includes visits to the supposedly doomed timelines that Convergence featured. (Just speculation; but every bit as valid as your own “none of it matters” speculation, such as Superman's pre-Flashpoint origin not mattering.)

The fact that Earth-0 continuity appears to have been altered by the Convergence (heavily implied by Titans Hunt solicit) means nothing? Granted, Earth-0 desperately needed that edit; the near-complete absence of a first-generation Titans team was a gaping hole — a bloody wound — in Earth-0's continuity. But that doesn't change the fact that they used Convergence as the excuse to stitch it up, which makes the return of a classic Titans lineup to Earth-0's continuity a consequence of Convergence. (Incidentally, yay for the return of Lilith! Now if we could just get the YJ generation back to being Young Justice…)

The fact that Lois, Clark, and Jonathan are back means nothing? Sure, they're living on a different world now; but the proposition that his status as the pre-Flashpoint Superman is “almost just a technicality” is both highly speculative and highly debatable. It's entirely possible that we'll be getting flashbacks to just what the Saviors of the Infinite Earths actually did to save the original Multiverse. For all we know, it's intimately connected to what the Kents are doing on Earth-0 — indeed, the salvation of the original Multiverse may still be something that's on their plate.

Heck, does the fact that the original Multiverse was rescued mean nothing? We now have Earth-M and Multiversity Too, both of which would have been largely impossible even under the fifty-two-Earth Orrery of Worlds that was arguably the full extent of the Multiverse prior to Convergence.

And I'm not convinced that the October solicits provide the full extent of the Convergence spin-offs. These three titles were hinted at in the pages of Convergence itself; we still haven't seen the results of Didio's analysis of the “side issue sales figures”, and I will not be a bit surprised if the November and/or December solicits include more Convergence spin-off titles. It's entirely possible that even the new target you moved the goalposts to will be achieved before the year is out.

Well, the problem is, I have a particular interpretation of what other people are expecting, that isn't what I think is going to happen. Then, DC does do SOMETHING, which is neither what I think others were asking for/expecting or what I was talking about NOT happening, but technically since I hadn't considered the possibility it proves the letter of what I said wrong but not the general intent. So that's when it looks like the goalposts moved, but it's not my intent.

So yes, my interpretation of the *bulk* (if not every specific person) of expectations is that we were going to see things that were a continuation of past continuities, in a form that was clearly that continuity. Maybe that's not what you meant by "consequences", but it's certainly what I interpreted.

Perhaps the word "significant" should have been included with "consequences". Because yes, they created a book about Telos and Telos was in Convergence, so technically, yes, something from Convergence is continuing from Convergence. But really, does that take any effort? Does that indicate that Didio et al sat down and said "look guys, we're going to really make some major changes in our publishing line. And the major lynchpin, the thing the entire thing is going to revolve around, will be Convergence" - ? Because that to me would be significant consequences. Picking out a character created specifically for the series and giving him a book, or taking characters from a past continuity and putting them in completely new circumstances, or whatever the heck the connection in Titans Hunt is supposed to be - those do not come across as things that required any effort or major intent. Certainly not the kind that people seemed to think was going to be there.

So yes, to me, Telos getting a series means nothing because he's a new character who could have had other origins not tied to Convergence. He certainly wasn't the standout character - frankly, I have no idea where DC is going with that.

Your Titans paragraph really uses a good phrase "they use Convergence as an excuse" - which means its something they could have done either way.

And we already HAD the multiverse and Multiversity. We didn't need an origin for it - we had one before Flashpoint, so why wouldn't we have one after?

All in all, it's the intent and the "let's wait and see" and the utter unnecessary nature of Convergence that still does suggest to me that it was pretty much there to fill the publishing schedule, not a lynchpin for anything.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It's also possible this is just preliminary art, but not sure if that's necessarily so given that we're talking about something coming out in October.

Plenty of time for it to change. Specially if it's only a few costumes.