Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

How can Namor, one of the greatest characters ever created, not have a book?!

Good question. You can't tell me that there aren't good ideas for a Namor book. Glad to see one of my favorite writers doing a story.

[Reviresco]

WOW!!! This is great news!!!! Kurt Busiek is a very dedicated writer that makes his homework and researches these characters and more often than not his voices sound very authentic. The best example to me was his work with George Perez in Avengers. I hope he is familiar with the Namor 60s cartoon as well. And besides Namor we get two favorites of mine LADY DORMA and ATTUMA. This is going to be super!!!

I'm certain Busiek is familiar with the Tales to Astonish stories that many of the cartoons draw from. And probably has some knowledge of them.

And yes! Lady Dorma!!!! Teen Attuma ... well, I'll definitely give it a chance. But he's not my favorite Namor villain and as a teen ...

I loved how the earlier FF issues often had Torch standing around in flame. Kind of goes to my point about how powerful each of the four actually are.

I remember this story and think I sometimes confuse it with the aforementioned 'Dorma throws Sue out the airlock' issue, which was previous. Any chance some has that scene and/or the issue/date data?

Well, the first panel IS from Fantastic Four Annual #1, also known as The 'Dorma throws Sue out the airlock.' LOL!






The second panel is from FF 33, I believe. The first appearance of Attuma.

[Reviresco]

Namor looks really good here, but I'm confused is he the star of this series or is he taking a backseat to the aliens in the foreground?

I don't think those are aliens.

No, I'm pretty sure they are "Atlanteans." The green gal could be Lemurian, though there are green Atlanteans also, IIRC. There's been various hints / instances of castes or ethnicity among the Atlanteans -- which I've long wanted Marvel to explore. And I get that vibe from this image. The one with the braided crown reminds me of hair styles from Africa, I think from the Congo. The one with the tattoos reminds of some Asian hair styles. Now, the big orange lady in the back ... I don't recall that race, but there have been more aquatic looking races portrayed in Marvel's Atlantis.

What I'm interested in is how they go from cover #1 to cover #2, where the team has obviously been transformed. Of course, I assume that's the story of the mini-series.

Good question. You can't tell me that there aren't good ideas for a Namor book. Glad to see one of my favorite writers doing a story.

And even a few writers and artists have expressed interest in writing Namor. Get on the stick, Marvel! I hope this is so successful that Marvel gives us an ongoing.

[Oberon]

I'm certain Busiek is familiar with the Tales to Astonish stories that many of the cartoons draw from. And probably has some knowledge of them.

And yes! Lady Dorma!!!! Teen Attuma ... well, I'll definitely give it a chance. But he's not my favorite Namor villain and as a teen ...





Well, the first panel IS from Fantastic Four Annual #1, also known as The 'Dorma throws Sue out the airlock.' LOL!






The second panel is from FF 33, I believe. The first appearance of Attuma.

I just didn't remember it was the annual. Great story, I must try to find and read again. So this was still some months/issues before Sue discovers her Field abilities, but one wonders if this level of panic and adrenalin paved the way for that ability. Would have been pretty useful with that B__tch Dorma (just kidding)

[Oberon]

No, I'm pretty sure they are "Atlanteans." The green gal could be Lemurian, though there are green Atlanteans also, IIRC. There's been various hints / instances of castes or ethnicity among the Atlanteans -- which I've long wanted Marvel to explore. And I get that vibe from this image. The one with the braided crown reminds me of hair styles from Africa, I think from the Congo. The one with the tattoos reminds of some Asian hair styles. Now, the big orange lady in the back ... I don't recall that race, but there have been more aquatic looking races portrayed in Marvel's Atlantis.

What I'm interested in is how they go from cover #1 to cover #2, where the team has obviously been transformed. Of course, I assume that's the story of the mini-series.




And even a few writers and artists have expressed interest in writing Namor. Get on the stick, Marvel! I hope this is so successful that Marvel gives us an ongoing.

Atlantis above or below the sea, for centuries, means that visitors; Inhumans, Eternals, others may have left their genetic materials there, whether purposely or not. I am liking this idea as it could explain lots. Like some of the tribes that left the city and went their own way, possibly for vast periods of time, reinforced their own DNA, mostly as an insular tribe. So some traits become very dominant or emphasized. Special abilities, skin colorations, etc.

This is fascinating to think about. I remember a '70s story where Dire Wraiths invaded Atlantis (the little surface girl who sensed it and became a water breather at the end). As advanced as Atlantis was, still was after the sinking, known to Eternals and others - probably also known to inhabitants of Outer Space before the modern times... I could even see a story where the Space Wakandans had interactions with Atlantis in the past too.

[jackolover]

This is a question I have been asking myself every Wednesday, at the very least, for the last TEN YEARS. Yes, it's been TEN YEARS since we had a Namor ongoing. The closest we have gotten to a Namor book was last year's Invaders by Zdarsky. And while this isn't an ongoing, it's at least a mini-series dedicated to Namor. I can't wait!






I would welcome Namor in the MCU, if only because he'd finally get some well deserved comics push. But I'm not sure if this means that is happening. It sort of sounds like Cates wants Atlantis, or this group of Atlanteans, to have something to do with his Knull event, which is unexpected, as I don't recall him expressing an interest or using Atlanteans before. But then again, I haven't been reading his Venom stuff, so maybe something was mentioned previously.

Kurt is perfect for this mini-series, given it is weaving together old pieces of Marvel's history. I'm so excited that we are finally going to get some Atlantean world building.

The Namor comic was distributed first in a picture theatre back in the 1930’s. It would be great if Namor got on the screen of a movie theatre, too.

[Thor-El]

I just didn't remember it was the annual. Great story, I must try to find and read again. So this was still some months/issues before Sue discovers her Field abilities, but one wonders if this level of panic and adrenalin paved the way for that ability. Would have been pretty useful with that B__tch Dorma (just kidding)

Hah! Need to read this. During the golden age she was more like Namorita, the wide eyed little cousin marveling and tagging along Namor in their adventures. Then she certainly became more like Amora the Enchantress in her silver age introduction. There was certain redemption that happened in the first arc of Tales to Astonish. Her feminine manipulative nature was always turned up pretty high though. Although she always remained somewhat unpredictable but always leaning to the side of the angels, very much like Namor.

[Thor-El]

I'm certain Busiek is familiar with the Tales to Astonish stories that many of the cartoons draw from. And probably has some knowledge of them.

And yes! Lady Dorma!!!! Teen Attuma ... well, I'll definitely give it a chance. But he's not my favorite Namor villain and as a teen ...

The cartoon has some real nice original chapters like the one where Namor's meets his paternal grandmother and the one where he travels back in time to Nero's Rome between others. The roman empire influence in Atlantis is very strong throughout the entire cartoon and makes so much sense for a society worshiping Neptune. That's the Atlantis of Tales to Astonish and the entire Silver Age. I hope Busiek takes this into account and doesn't goes into a nu-Marvel Atlantis with these characters like many of the latest Namor interpretations of the Atlanteans where they look more aboriginal.

[Thor-El]

I asked Kurt Busiek about the possibilities of having a younger Vashti in his series and he answered my question:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you check out Vashti's history, you'll see why this is unlikely (but not impossible).

kdb

Now you got me researching my Marvel Universe Handbook for Vashti's history. And thanks for giving me hopes!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm clueless as what this is as I don't know much about Vashti's past other than he seemed to have been a peasant Namor elevates to his Grand Vizier after his faithful role in helping him in his quest for Neptune's trident. There is not much in the internet about Vashti's origin either. Gotta find out my old Marvel Universe Handbook and read about Vashti. I'm sure Rev and IW know what Kurt is talking about.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I asked Kurt Busiek about the possibilities of having a younger Vashti in his series and he answered my question:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now you got me researching my Marvel Universe Handbook for Vashti's history. And thanks for giving me hopes!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm clueless as what this is as I don't know much about Vashti's past other than he seemed to have been a peasant Namor elevates to his Grand Vizier after his faithful role in helping him in his quest for Neptune's trident. There is not much in the internet about Vashti's origin either. Gotta find out my old Marvel Universe Handbook and read about Vashti. I'm sure Rev and IW know what Kurt is talking about.

Vashti had a shrouded past and nothing was really spoken about it, so there is a HUGE possibility that he could have met a younger Namor but Namor just didn't know it was the same man he meets in Tales to Astonish/or Namor forgets etc. Vashti's full name is Vashti Cleito-Son which always made me think that he might have a connection to the Goddess and also to the God especially since in his first appearance in TTA he says "Neptune has called to me and I answer" "I set my eyes on the (Namor's) true presence at last" So he could have meet/seen Namor when Namor was younger but didn't consider him ready/worthy of the throne until years later.

Omg I just checked the Vashti Marvel Wiki to be sure of something and make sure I hadn't missed anything and he was in Atlantis Attacks 2020!!! The old man advising Namor was Vashti!!! I'm so happy, they didn't name him but I suspected it might have been him however I also thought it could have been a random advisor.

edit: images

[Thor-El]

Vashti had a shrouded past and nothing was really spoken about it, so there is a HUGE possibility that he could have met a younger Namor but Namor just didn't know it was the same man he meets in Tales to Astonish/or Namor forgets etc. Vashti's full name is Vashti Cleito-Son which always made me think that he might have a connection to the Goddess and also to the God especially since in his first appearance in TTA he says "Neptune has called to me and I answer" "I set my eyes on the (Namor's) true presence at last" So he could have meet/seen Namor when Namor was younger but didn't consider him ready/worthy of the throne until years later.

Omg I just checked the Vashti Marvel Wiki to be sure of something and make sure I hadn't missed anything and he was in Atlantis Attacks 2020!!! The old man advising Namor was Vashti!!! I'm so happy, they didn't name him but I suspected it might have been him however I also thought it could have been a random advisor.

Thank you IW. I'm so glad Busiek seems interested in Namor. There is no better writer for Marvel's first hero. I only hope he can continue writing Namor. A team up with Alex Ross would be just so amazing in something like a Marvels format maxi-series starring Namor. That would totally made up for Marvel seemingly ignoring Namor so hard during their 80 years anniversary. I know Busiek is capable of launching Namor's popularity into the stratosphere but he needs to be matched by an equally stellar artist.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Thank you IW. I'm so glad Busiek seems interested in Namor. There is no better writer for Marvel's first hero. I only hope he can continue writing Namor. A team up with Alex Ross would be just so amazing in something like a Marvels format maxi-series starring Namor. That would totally made up for Marvel seemingly ignoring Namor so hard during their 80 years anniversary. I know Busiek is capable of launching Namor's popularity into the stratosphere but he needs to be matched by an equally stellar artist.

I would love another Ross and Busiek team up but I would worry because Ross is not a inexpensive artist to keep on an ongoing, I would rather another artist take the helm and Ross do covers like Immortal Hulk! I am so excited for this series!!!

[Reviresco]

I asked Kurt Busiek about the possibilities of having a younger Vashti in his series and he answered my question:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now you got me researching my Marvel Universe Handbook for Vashti's history. And thanks for giving me hopes!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm clueless as what this is as I don't know much about Vashti's past other than he seemed to have been a peasant Namor elevates to his Grand Vizier after his faithful role in helping him in his quest for Neptune's trident. There is not much in the internet about Vashti's origin either. Gotta find out my old Marvel Universe Handbook and read about Vashti. I'm sure Rev and IW know what Kurt is talking about.

Right. Vashti was introduced as a loyal commoner, who reassured Namor that the people supported him and needed him to deliver them from Krang. IIRC, he was a kelp farmer and his 'origin' is what you related. If you go by the books, they didn't meet until Namor went on the Quest for the Trident. So, I don't expect him to play a role in this mini-series. There could be a nod / background appearance, sort of like Everett's Fish Market in Invaders, with him farming, or selling his kelp, in the background.

Vashti had a shrouded past and nothing was really spoken about it, so there is a HUGE possibility that he could have met a younger Namor but Namor just didn't know it was the same man he meets in Tales to Astonish/or Namor forgets etc. Vashti's full name is Vashti Cleito-Son which always made me think that he might have a connection to the Goddess and also to the God especially since in his first appearance in TTA he says "Neptune has called to me and I answer" "I set my eyes on the (Namor's) true presence at last" So he could have meet/seen Namor when Namor was younger but didn't consider him ready/worthy of the throne until years later.

Omg I just checked the Vashti Marvel Wiki to be sure of something and make sure I hadn't missed anything and he was in Atlantis Attacks 2020!!! The old man advising Namor was Vashti!!! I'm so happy, they didn't name him but I suspected it might have been him however I also thought it could have been a random advisor.

edit: images

Really? I wondered about that, but Pak never named him. But I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case.

Also wondering who gave Vashti that surname? I don't recall him having it in most of his Silver / Bronze Age appearances.

TBH, I don't think Vashti's past is mysterious, so much as it is pretty boring. He was a common farmer, whose everyday concerns and years, granted him a perspective and wisdom that Namor and the nobility lack. Personally, I don't think he needs to be special with a connection to the gods. His faith in Neptune, as well as his loyalty to Atlantis and Namor, is why Neptune calls on him. In the beginning, the whole point of the character, IMO, is that he represents the populace and the everyday Atlantean. The fact that Namor chose to "elevate" him to arguably the third highest position in the realm, shows Namor recognizes how important that representation is to him.

As time goes on, and their relationship develops, I think Vashti becomes more like a surrogate father to Namor.

[Reviresco]

I just didn't remember it was the annual. Great story, I must try to find and read again. So this was still some months/issues before Sue discovers her Field abilities, but one wonders if this level of panic and adrenalin paved the way for that ability. Would have been pretty useful with that B__tch Dorma (just kidding)

LOL! In the first appearances of Lady Dorma in the Silver Age, she could definitely be a b_tch. She tolerated no one getting between her and Namor. And she DEMANDED that Namor treat her exactly how she wanted to be treated. And if he didn't, she was more than capable of making him pay for those slights. When you see how that Lady Dorma and the rest of the Atlanteans act, you understand, Namor doesn't have an oxygen imbalance. He's just as mercurial and hot tempered as the rest of his people.

Later, she got watered down a bit, and became the 'gentle' Lady Dorma who was always trying to talk Namor down.

Hah! Need to read this. During the golden age she was more like Namorita, the wide eyed little cousin marveling and tagging along Namor in their adventures. Then she certainly became more like Amora the Enchantress in her silver age introduction. There was certain redemption that happened in the first arc of Tales to Astonish. Her feminine manipulative nature was always turned up pretty high though. Although she always remained somewhat unpredictable but always leaning to the side of the angels, very much like Namor.

Yes, Lady Dorma did tag along in plenty of Namor's Golden Age adventures -- before the creation of Namora. But make no mistake, even Golden Age Dorma was very jealous of Namor. Wasn't it Lynn Harris she was giving the dagger eyes to?

[Oberon]

I remember the reference to Vashti's past, though I don't remember if I saw it on panel.