Black Panther *Spoilers*

[CliffHanger2]

Kilmonger was right in his philosophy and ideals but his execution of them was flawed. Once he started using destabilizing tactics on Wakanda you knew he was evil. He was too broken to fix the things he wanted to.

But T'Challa grew as a character and by then end he began to implement some of Kilmonger's ideas in a more practical way.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

If you Want to understand why people sympathize with him look at history , specifically American history.

Understanding someone's motivations is different than sympathizing for that person.

This. Exactly. I understand his motives but I don't sympathize with them any more than I would sympathize with a radical Islamist, a Whiet Supremicist or a Nazi. Both might have reasons for why they are like they are but that certainly doesn't mean I sympathize with them or their reactionary and violent beliefs.

Again you are conflating everything. This has the effect of dismissing his entire character when the movie clearly takes pains to do the opposite. The text is clear. The structure is two similar characters growing up in different circumstances. One with his heritage one denied it. They are the same person deep down. We are supposed to reflect on how they could be swapped out at birth and nothing else would change. T'Challa could have been a black ops assassin wanting the world to pay for its crimes.

Again, I'm not dismissing him on a thematic level - though I certainly quibble with the idea that T'Challa and him are "deep down the same" - on which level he was undoubtedly interesting. I do not think he was remotely charismatic, let alone likable. And, again, understanding where he's coming from doesn't change the fact, beyond his rotten childhood, I don't sympathize with him in any way, shape or form and find his beliefs reprehensible.

What, he's the first bad guy to find justifications for his actions?

[TheInvisibleMan]

Michael B Jordan is a star

I certainly understood the how and why of Killmonger, I also understand that his death is what pushes T'Challa to get Wakanda out on the world stage and "do better"

[JKtheMac]

Again, I'm not dismissing him on a thematic level - though I certainly quibble with the idea that T'Challa and him are "deep down the same" - on which level he was undoubtedly interesting. I do not think he was remotely charismatic, let alone likable. And, again, understanding where he's coming from doesn't change the fact, beyond his rotten childhood, I don't sympathize with him in any way, shape or form and find his beliefs reprehensible.

See the problem here is you are talking personally. It is an objective fact that he is filmed, written and acted as a charismatic man. Just because you personally don't feel drawn to him doesn't make it false. The camera angles and the way he is filmed, the choice of actor, his clothes, hair, scars, competence, the way he smiles as he walks towards the camera, these are all artistic choices intended to convey things about him. They are there in the film, embedded in the art. It makes no sense to deny them.

they could have chosen anyone for the role. They chose Michael B Jordan. An undeniably and objectively attractive guy.

[Midvillian1322]

Love how M'Baku and his tribe are vegetarians.

Lol that whole scene was funny. M'Baku and Shuri had great comedic timing with theyre few jokes. Thats said Mbaku is the only one whos accent felt a little shakey. Itsvmore then good enough but it seemed to come and go a little while everyone elses was rock solid.


Side note i loved Tchakas Black Panther costume.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

See the problem here is you are talking personally. It is an objective fact that he is filmed, written and acted as a charismatic man. Just because you personally don't feel drawn to him doesn't make it false. The camera angles and the way he is filmed, the choice of actor, his clothes, hair, scars, competence, the way he smiles as he walks towards the camera, these are all artistic choices intended to convey things about him. They are there in the film, embedded in the art. It makes no sense to deny them.

they could have chosen anyone for the role. They chose Michael B Jordan. An undeniably and objectively attractive guy.

But my problem is that I'm not seeing the charisma at all on screen. Part of it is that I'm sick of the angry black man stereotype, it's true, but even "objectively", I'm just not seeing that on film. And if the intention of the film is to portray that then, from where I'm sitting, it failed miserably.

Yes, obviously Jordan is attractive and I have liked his elsewhere (Creed, in particular) but the character he is playing simply sin't charismatic. Good looks alone certainly don't guarantee charisma - especially when that person is of a sex you're not naturally attracted to.

[regnak]

Killmonger's dad was a Wakandan war dog who became radicalized when he saw how badly black people were treated in america and other countries
His dad raised his son to be radicalized just like him but also revere wakanda
When T'chaka killed his father he lost that influence and became colored even more by the plight of african americans
The being left on the streets part wasn't that particularly bad since he managed to graduate from MIT and become a Navy Seal which is more than some people ever manage with no father figure

Saying Killmonger was selfish is ignoring literally everything about his backstory and ignoring all his dialogue and only focusing on the "bad" things he did

The thing is that being from Africa his father should have cared more about worse things that happen there.

Modern-day slavery

The "current wave" of slavery in Sudan reportedly began in 1983 with the Second Sudanese Civil War between the North and South. It involved large numbers of "African" Sudanese, "primarily the Dinka, Nuer and Nuba of central Sudan," being captured and sold "(or exploited in other ways)" by Northern Sudanese "Arabs".[11][12] The problem of slavery reportedly became worse after the National Islamic Front-backed military government took power in 1989, the Khartoum government declared jihad against non-Muslim opposition in the south.[13] The Baggara were also given freedom "to kill these groups, loot their wealth, capture slaves, expel the rest from the territories, and forcefully settle their lands."[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan


If he wanted to mad at the US then he should be mad at Obama & Hillary for blowing up Libya and the slave trade starting up again in the aftermath.

http://time.com/5042560/libya-slave-trade/

[TheInvisibleMan]

The thing is that being from Africa his father should have cared more about worse things that happen there.

Modern-day slavery

The "current wave" of slavery in Sudan reportedly began in 1983 with the Second Sudanese Civil War between the North and South. It involved large numbers of "African" Sudanese, "primarily the Dinka, Nuer and Nuba of central Sudan," being captured and sold "(or exploited in other ways)" by Northern Sudanese "Arabs".[11][12] The problem of slavery reportedly became worse after the National Islamic Front-backed military government took power in 1989, the Khartoum government declared jihad against non-Muslim opposition in the south.[13] The Baggara were also given freedom "to kill these groups, loot their wealth, capture slaves, expel the rest from the territories, and forcefully settle their lands."[14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan


If he wanted to mad at the US then he should be mad at Obama & Hillary for blowing up Libya and the slave trade starting up again in the aftermath.

http://time.com/5042560/libya-slave-trade/

the MCU doesn't have real world politicians

the last POTUS seen on MCU and I assume he is still president is President Ellis (played by James Sadler), last seen in Iron Man 3

[regnak]

the MCU doesn't have real world politicians

the last POTUS seen on MCU and I assume he is still president is President Ellis (played by James Sadler), last seen in Iron Man 3

Still are we to assume that the Sudanese civil war and Arabs enslaving blacks for 22 years did not happen in the MCU?

[TheInvisibleMan]

Still are we to assume that the Sudanese civil war and Arabs enslaving blacks for 22 years did not happen in the MCU?

couldn't tell you

[rpmaluki]

Did it actually happen? Honest question.

[regnak]

Did it actually happen? Honest question.

Yes, see the link above.

[tabo61]

Awesome movie. Wonder how long Bucky had been awoke??

[XPac]

Awesome movie. Wonder how long Bucky had been awoke??

I wonder if Bucky will end up being a regular on the mcu BP mythos or if this is just a one shot appearance leading into Infinity War.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I wonder if Bucky will end up being a regular on the mcu BP mythos or if this is just a one shot appearance leading into Infinity War.

Id have to guess one shot, its the one safe place to put him