Future of the Bat Titles?

[Dzetoun]

With the announcement of the cancellation of Birds of Prey and Batwing, and the upcoming debut of Grayson, it seems an appropriate moment to speculate as to the future of the Bat titles. Let's organize this by titles that may be cancelled and titles that may appear.

Titles that may be Cancelled

All the books starring Batman himself seem very safe at the moment. Batman is still above 100k, although Zero Year fatigue seems to have set in a little bit; Tec and Batman and Robin (which is what it's probably going to be going forward) are in the 40k-60k range; and Eternal will probably stabilize somewhere in the 50k-70k range. Batgirl is just above 30k. Batwoman, however, is now below 20k, while Catwoman is right at 20k and sinking. RHATO is just above 20k and will slip below the line soon if Lobdell's return does not boost sales. All three of the latter titles seem to be sliding toward cancellation in the next year if nothing changes.

Titles that may Appear

The surprise success of Harley Quinn surely must have turned some heads at DC, and (dark grumblings about Didio notwithstanding) DC really needs Grayson to be a success or they are behind the eight ball in a big way with Dick Grayson. But what else might appear in the next twelve months or so? I am going to go out on a limb and say that they are hoping to use Eternal to launch a Red Robin solo and a reinvigorated Catwoman. They may also may try a new group book to replace Birds of Prey, although I am not sure who would be in it (too many candidates, not too few). Luke Fox will probably be an occasional support character in other people's books, and I have no idea what they will do with Kate Kane. They will definitely be doing something with Harper Row, but as her becoming Robin seems unlikely that may mean a new title of some sort as well (I could see her, Aguila, and Stephanie Brown becoming a new BOP team). Jason Todd will be an enormous problem if RHATO goes under. In some ways, it's a shame they used the spy angle for Dick Grayson, as that is one of the few alternatives that comes to mind for a new direction for Jason, although I could see him doing a Philip Marlow private eye.

What does everyone else think?

[Dmreyn]

After Eternal has run its course, if it has proven to be a success, they could always create a 4th Batman title (replacing The Dark Knight) focusing on team ups / the Bat-family. I've enjoyed Eternal so far and I know I'm not the only one. I like Batwoman as well, so I'd be sad to see that one go, but what can you do? The title just lost steam and people jumped off after the whole JHW debacle a few months back.
Birds of Prey, although I'm not a regular reader, would definitely have potential in the future. Get a good writer on it (perhaps Simone or somebody of her caliber). Look at all the female Bat members they could use: the original team plus the pool of Spoiler, Harper Row, and possibly even Huntress w or w/out Power Girl (as some people think World's Finest may be running its course soon as well). If they ever bring back Cass Cain, she'd be a shoe-in for that title as well.

[ABH]

I hope you're right about using Eternal as a springboard to launch a reinvigorated Catwoman book -- it desperately needs it.

I have no reason to believe it's coming anytime soon, but I'd still like to see a new Batman and the Outsiders book. If you put Batman in a book, it will sell, and I really like the idea of more team books, in general, at DC.

[Bruce Wayne]

I hope you're right about using Eternal as a springboard to launch a reinvigorated Catwoman book -- it desperately needs it.

These books can be reinvigorated, you just have to replace the creative teams. DC seems unwilling to do that on Batgirl and seems to want to wait until Nocienti buries Catwoman in cancellation territory.

I have no reason to believe it's coming anytime soon, but I'd still like to see a new Batman and the Outsiders book. If you put Batman in a book, it will sell, and I really like the idea of more team books, in general, at DC.

Any Outsiders take is going to be hobbled by Dan Didio from the get go imo. According to Tony Bedard, Didio's over-fondness and over-protectiveness of the property lead to Bedard being removed from the post-Winnick book after just one issue and of course Didio himself tried writing it after replacing writer Pete Tomasi and instead turned in a terrible run.

[ABH]

These books can be reinvigorated, you just have to replace the creative teams. DC seems unwilling to do that on Batgirl and seems to want to wait until Nocienti buries Catwoman in cancellation territory.

Oh, Catwoman definitely needs a new creative team, but a new-ish approach to the character, would also certainly help, if only to differentiate it from what came before and to get people to return to the book. If the Eternal characterization of Selina can help, in that regard, they they should go for it.

Any Outsiders take is going to be hobbled by Dan Didio from the get go imo. According to Tony Bedard, Didio's over-fondness and over-protectiveness of the property lead to Bedard being removed from the post-Winnick book after just one issue and of course Didio himself tried writing it after replacing writer Pete Tomasi and instead turned in a terrible run.

ugh, I don't like that Didio likes what I like.

[Conway]

Well, Teen Titans is dead and Nightwing is becoming Grayson, so I expect a Red Robin series.
Catwoman is getting a push from editorial.
Damian is being revived as we speak the Batman & _____ is becoming Robin again.
Since the team-ups were such a success and BoP and Batwing are Inc. members I suspect we'll hear news about a new Inc. style book where Batman teams up with different Inc. members.

[K. Jones]

I hope you're right about using Eternal as a springboard to launch a reinvigorated Catwoman book -- it desperately needs it.

I have no reason to believe it's coming anytime soon, but I'd still like to see a new Batman and the Outsiders book. If you put Batman in a book, it will sell, and I really like the idea of more team books, in general, at DC.

I was never sure why they launched with a Catwoman book at all, to be honest. The 90s Catwoman volume was pretty bad ... the reason the fond memories exist of her as a solo book operator are purely because of the sell of Brubaker and Cooke working in a Gotham/noir venue. People can't not buy that. It just had the luck of continuing to be pretty darned good after Brubaker left, but it could have just as easily been bad - and it still ended.

After that, nobody on earth will convince me that Selina was the biggest selling point of Gotham City Sirens. It was a great title, I adored it. People were buying it because it said "DINI" on the cover and had Harley Quinn sharing the spotlight. If a TAS fan, male or female can get a Harley book, by Dini, and get Ivy and Kitty for free along with it, it'll sell. At least until it gets mired in kind of antithetical, continuity-defying Zatanna/Talia mix-ups.

Catwoman sort of lost her mystique here, thanks to rampant "inner monologue" style narration writing tropes, and not enough stealing for stealing's sake. If she's going to be a crime boss, I almost would want her to lay off the solo title to bring some of the mystery back.

[K. Jones]

These books can be reinvigorated, you just have to replace the creative teams. DC seems unwilling to do that on Batgirl and seems to want to wait until Nocienti buries Catwoman in cancellation territory.



Any Outsiders take is going to be hobbled by Dan Didio from the get go imo. According to Tony Bedard, Didio's over-fondness and over-protectiveness of the property lead to Bedard being removed from the post-Winnick book after just one issue and of course Didio himself tried writing it after replacing writer Pete Tomasi and instead turned in a terrible run.

God, thanks for reminding me about Tomasi's arc. I'd completely forgotten about it, but in hindsight thinking about it, about how it's just one volume of what, a special and five issues, with Alfred and all that ... but that Tomasi was always pretty privy to Morrison's story beats and that story features a team-up between Ra's al Ghul and Vandal Savage ... I think it's safe to say a re-read of that "Insiders" storyline might just read a bit differently in the wake of Return of Bruce Wayne and the ending of Batman, Inc. ... and the fate of Batman's Outsiders. (and current Batman and Robin story).

That's vital stuff as far as I'm concerned.

[ABH]

Catwoman sort of lost her mystique here, thanks to rampant "inner monologue" style narration writing tropes, and not enough stealing for stealing's sake. If she's going to be a crime boss, I almost would want her to lay off the solo title to bring some of the mystery back.

Yeah, they could certainly shelve the solo Catwoman book, for a bit, but I just don't see DC doing that. So I'll settle for a better Catwoman book, even if it's not quite the book that I really, really want.

To me, Catwoman should have always been a heist book -- ideally "Mission Impossible" meets "Ocean's 11", with maybe a little "Inception" (I keep looking to the Batman Inc. issue, where she helps Batman with a job in Japan, as further inspiration). She should have the unofficial title of "The World's Greatest Cat-burglar" and she would be traveling the world pulling off crazy jobs for various high-paying clients... I'm not sure I'm ever going to get that book.

[outlander78]

Catwoman seems best used as either Batman's partner, or working as an agent for either some covert group or the JLA or Bats. A caper as a mini series every few years might work, but as an on-going, how do you explain Batman targetting every "super villain" in Gotham except her, month after month? Is she good enough to avoid him catching her, ever?

[ABH]

Catwoman seems best used as either Batman's partner, or working as an agent for either some covert group or the JLA or Bats. A caper as a mini series every few years might work, but as an on-going, how do you explain Batman targetting every "super villain" in Gotham except her, month after month? Is she good enough to avoid him catching her, ever?

It depends on the interpretation, but plenty of times, it seems like Batman doesn't really want to catch her, and that he enjoys the chase as much as she does. But again, I'd want her to travel outside of Gotham, and even when she is in town, Batman still has a whole Rogues Gallery to deal with.

I understand my idea for Catwoman wouldn't work for everyone, but it's always been one of my fantasy "pet projects," right behind the "Bludhaven rebuilt as an neon-lit Atlantic City/Las Vegas location, for Nightwing" idea.

[dropkickjake]

No surprises from Batwing or Birds of Prey. We all saw that coming. I think its safe to say that Birds of Prey will see a relaunch; maybe not right away, but it will certainly happen. Batwing, my guess, will be heading off to be part of a team book after Eternal, maybe a new Outsiders book.

In addition to this, I don't think RHatO or Catwoman will be canceled, but I do think they each need the Grayson treatment, if you will. New, and good, creative teams with a clearly stated, dedicated, strong, and amongst the Batfamily unique direction.

Yeah, they could certainly shelve the solo Catwoman book, for a bit, but I just don't see DC doing that. So I'll settle for a better Catwoman book, even if it's not quite the book that I really, really want.

To me, Catwoman should have always been a heist book -- ideally "Mission Impossible" meets "Ocean's 11", with maybe a little "Inception" (I keep looking to the Batman Inc. issue, where she helps Batman with a job in Japan, as further inspiration). She should have the unofficial title of "The World's Greatest Cat-burglar" and she would be traveling the world pulling off crazy jobs for various high-paying clients... I'm not sure I'm ever going to get that book.

It depends on the interpretation, but plenty of times, it seems like Batman doesn't really want to catch her, and that he enjoys the chase as much as she does. But again, I'd want her to travel outside of Gotham, and even when she is in town, Batman still has a whole Rogues Gallery to deal with.

I understand my idea for Catwoman wouldn't work for everyone, but it's always been one of my fantasy "pet projects," right behind the "Bludhaven rebuilt as an neon-lit Atlantic City/Las Vegas location, for Nightwing" idea.

All my yes. Catwoman has always struck me as one of the morally gray characters anyway. I wouldn't have her pulling jobs for wealthy clients so much as picking her own targets. This is where we can have her toe that moral line: which targets does she pick? Maybe she only steals from mob bosses/ crime lords/ super villains? Maybe she just draws the line at never stealing from people don't deserve it? Maybe she becomes a Robin Hood character through this, stealing from the rich to give to the poor (which is somewhat reminiscent of Hathaway's TDKR)? Actually, Catwoman as Oceans 11 meets Mission Impossible meets Robin Hood would be my pick for a Catwoman direction.

As for RHatO, My "pet project" for them is sending them to space as Bounty Hunters. They've already been to space, Starfire is a good heavy hitter, Roy is a great tech guy, and Jason has a cool leather jacket and those sweet pistols. I think it would translate well into a space opera type book. This would be incredibly unique within the Batbooks.

[swing kinker]

Hard to tell with Didio at the helm, I can see more writers leaving due to his interference. The man just seems to be awful at his job/s

[darkseidpwns]

I honestly dont expect Batwoman and Catwoman to be around at this point next year,Red Hood could survive maybe.

It's time to give the villains a chance now,Spidey had Venom,Kaine and Spock. The Batman line can easily use Owlman or Bane.

[chipsnopotatoes]

Yeah, they could certainly shelve the solo Catwoman book, for a bit, but I just don't see DC doing that. So I'll settle for a better Catwoman book, even if it's not quite the book that I really, really want.

To me, Catwoman should have always been a heist book -- ideally "Mission Impossible" meets "Ocean's 11", with maybe a little "Inception" (I keep looking to the Batman Inc. issue, where she helps Batman with a job in Japan, as further inspiration). She should have the unofficial title of "The World's Greatest Cat-burglar" and she would be traveling the world pulling off crazy jobs for various high-paying clients... I'm not sure I'm ever going to get that book.

This. I prefer it over Queenpin, frankly.

This was what Winick promised but boy was that a disaster. It was the opposite of sexy. Just pure trash in its execution. March is a great artist but he wouldn't be what I'd choose for this book. I want Yanick Paquette.

For me, Selina should always be classy and upmarket, not some two bit pickpocket and DEFINITELY not protector of mole people in the Gotham Underground (I'm looking at you Tim Seeley)