Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Lets use Okoye as an example.

Is Okoye shown or mentioned even once in Hudlins run? No. Does that mean Hudlin retconned her out of the BP mythos. Again, it's a no. Not using or mentioning something doens't mean it's not canon. Obviously continuity can't work that way.

As for the brain aneurysm ... it's not mentioned so we really don't know how that was resolved. We can GUESS it was resolved off panel, but thats all we can do. It's a dropped plot threat. The stories where he had the brain aneurysm still are in canon though as Kasper Cole still exists. We just don't know what happened between Priests and Hudlins run.

Okoye is a grown ass woman now as introduced by Coates himself back into the mythos, in Hudlins run WitBP we see a younger T'Challa, with several Dora's around and are grown ass women. And this isn't a debate about of a character appears if not they are retconned out, but physical changes, and how they are shown in BP and the greater mu.

Retcons aren't always what's SAID, but what's shown on panel. And considering that ever other showing of Dora's are as grown ass adults it's very clear that they have been retconned and are older and ya know flags exists and that predates Priest run in comic times.. But obviously still I don't understand retcons so so help me out here.

Thanks

[XPac]

Okoye is a grown ass woman now, in Hudlins run WitBP we see a younger T'Challa, with several Dora's around and are grown ass women. Retcons aren't always what's SAID, but what's shown on panel. And considering that ever other showing of Dora's are as grown ass adults it's very clear that they have been retconned and are older and ya know flags exists and that predates Priest run in comic times.. But obviously still I don't understand retcons so so help me out here.

Thanks

All showing older Dora's mean is that the Doras we see are older. It doesn't retcon Okoye and Nakia's age. Just because the Doras we see in Hudlins run look older than 16 (we don't actually know their ages) doesn't mean every single Dora in history were all older than 16. We know from Maeberry and Coates run that Doras can be different ages. So assuming that ALL Doras in history are older than 16 because the ones in Flags or Hudlins run MIGHT have been is an assumption at best, and an assumption does not supercede something that is clearly stated on panel. Believe me I wish it did, as making them 16 in my opinion was a mistake.

Let me put it this way... if Hudlin wanted to retcon it, he should have just retconned it on panel by stating what needs to be stated. At BEST he leaves it open to interpretation as anyone can still pick up a Priest book and clearly see the ages of the Doras. It's a sort of half @$$ attept to fix things at best.

[DigiCom]

Retcons aren't always what's SAID, but what's shown on panel. And considering that ever other showing of Dora's are as grown ass adults it's very clear that they have been retconned and are older and ya know flags exists and that predates Priest run in comic times.. But obviously still I don't understand retcons so so help me out here.

It's easy:

If it makes Coates' run look good, it's allowed. If it doesn't, it isn't.

Spend an entire arc explaining that the Dora Milaje concept is bad: Good, because it "fixes" a problem with the Priest run.

Completely ignore canon to explain that the Wakandan gods are imperialist conquerors who are turned into gods because their audience clapped loud enough ("I do believe in Orishas! I do!"). Just ignore that! Coates' run is brilliant because he fixed the Doras! Forever! Even though everyone is ignoring his entire run! His writing is inviolate! Only the movies can change his stuff now! All praise and glory to the Gospel of TNC!

Coates-kanda forever!

</sarcasm>

[Ezyo1000]

All showing older Dora's mean is that the Doras we see are older. It doesn't retcon Okoye and Nakia's age. Just because the Doras we see in Hudlins run look older than 16 (we don't actually know their ages) doesn't mean every single Dora in history were all older than 16. We know from Maeberry and Coates run that Doras can be different ages. So assuming that ALL Doras in history are older than 16 because the ones in Flags or Hudlins run MIGHT have been is an assumption at best, and an assumption does not supercede something that is clearly stated on panel. Believe me I wish it did, as making them 16 in my opinion was a mistake.

Let me put it this way... if Hudlin wanted to retcon it, he should have just retconned it on panel by stating what needs to be stated. At BEST he leaves it open to interpretation as anyone can still pick up a Priest book and clearly see the ages of the Doras. It's a sort of half @$$ attept to fix things at best.

Nope he retconned it. Wanna know how? Priest run its said T'Challa brings it back. Yet Hudlins run its shown that the Doras were around back in azzaris time. That already retcons what's deal about them. And also Hudlins run they are older Doras AND he is also younger. Its pretty clear they are adult's.

Coates retcon was half assed because he didn't even come up with a logical and coherent way to address the issue. It was full of holes to the point that gay actually debunks the whole story and issue they have with T'Challa.. but people willfully ignore thst little bit and only focus on the "retcons" they think matter, so picking and choosing

[chief12d]

It's easy:

If it makes Coates' run look good, it's allowed. If it doesn't, it isn't.

Spend an entire arc explaining that the Dora Milaje concept is bad: Good, because it "fixes" a problem with the Priest run.

Completely ignore canon to explain that the Wakandan gods are imperialist conquerors who are turned into gods because their audience clapped loud enough ("I do believe in Orishas! I do!"). Just ignore that! Coates' run is brilliant because he fixed the Doras! Forever! Even though everyone is ignoring his entire run! His writing is inviolate! Only the movies can change his stuff now! All praise and glory to the Gospel of TNC!

Coates-kanda forever!

</sarcasm>

I vaguely remember reading a friend’s copy of one of Coates’ IGEW issues where he revealed the Orisha were somehow trapped in mortal bodies and had to be freed through the prayer of the Wakandan people during the war with the Originators. Either way we know they’re children of the Elder Gods, I don’t remember if they were born that way and somehow ended up in human form or if they were always human. If it was the former I’d have a bit less issue with the retcon.

[Ezyo1000]

It's easy:

If it makes Coates' run look good, it's allowed. If it doesn't, it isn't.

Spend an entire arc explaining that the Dora Milaje concept is bad: Good, because it "fixes" a problem with the Priest run.

Completely ignore canon to explain that the Wakandan gods are imperialist conquerors who are turned into gods because their audience clapped loud enough ("I do believe in Orishas! I do!"). Just ignore that! Coates' run is brilliant because he fixed the Doras! Forever! Even though everyone is ignoring his entire run! His writing is inviolate! Only the movies can change his stuff now! All praise and glory to the Gospel of TNC!

Coates-kanda forever!

</sarcasm>

the Church of TNC is in session, let us say the Coates pray:
Men are evil, no one man, women were bred by men to be given to other men. The women must serve the king in all ways, curse harum-fal!! Amen

[DigiCom]

I vaguely remember reading a friend’s copy of one of Coates’ IGEW issues where he revealed the Orisha were somehow trapped in mortal bodies and had to be freed through the prayer of the Wakandan people during the war with the Originators. Either way we know they’re children of the Elder Gods, I don’t remember if they were born that way and somehow ended up in human form or if they were always human. If it was the former I’d have a bit less issue with the retcon.

In issue #15 of the first run, Coates has someone report "It is said" that they were children of the elder gods (not necessarily Set & co.) "but not gods themselves".

In issue #167 (five issues later) the ever so mysterious "Mother" recounted that "heroes rose among them, and on faith, heroes ascended into gods" to defeat the Originators.

So, if we assume her account is trustworthy, all that was required was the faith of their followers. No divine heritage required.

(The rest of the story is equally insulting to Wakanda, but that's another rant.)

[DigiCom]

Follow-up:

There IS a scene in issue #6 of the IGEW run where Bast talks about being "freed from mortal shackles", but as she expected N'jadaka to do the same, one can only assume she was speaking metaphorically about going from hero to god. N'Jadaka is not a "child of the elder gods" after all.

[XPac]

Nope he retconned it. Wanna know how? Priest run its said T'Challa brings it back. Yet Hudlins run its shown that the Doras were around back in azzaris time. That already retcons what's deal about them. And also Hudlins run they are older Doras AND he is also younger. Its pretty clear they are adult's.

Coates retcon was half assed because he didn't even come up with a logical and coherent way to address the issue. It was full of holes to the point that gay actually debunks the whole story and issue they have with T'Challa.. but people willfully ignore thst little bit and only focus on the "retcons" they think matter, so picking and choosing

Firstly, we don't know how old the Doras were in Hudlins run. The books to my knowledge never said (correct me if I'm wrong there). You can certainly argue they Doras didn't look like 16 year olds in Hudlins books... but they frankly didn't look like 16 year olds in Priests books either. Exibit A.

Black-Panther-1998-2-Dora-Milaje-Supermodels-cropped.jpg

But even if we knew with 100% certanty that the Doras we saw in Hudlins run were in fact over 16, again the flaw in your reasoning is that just because those Doras were over 16 doesn't mean ALL Doras throughout history were. Doras can be different ages. At most it would mean the Doras used in Hudlins run were over 16... and again we don't even actually know that.

As far as the retcon of Doras being around Azzaris time.. I believe T'Chaka folded them and T'Challa brought them back. So the window where they weren't around was actually pretty small if my recollection is right. But I could be wrong on that one.

[Gaastra]

Has this been posted yet? Most black panther, plus shuri and kilmonger comics are free right now for anyone who does do digital comics.


https://m.comixology.com/search/item...=SINGLE_ISSUES

https://www.comixology.com/Shuri-201...cmllc1NsaWRlcg

https://www.comixology.com/Killmonge...3VsdHNTbGlkZXI

[XPac]

I vaguely remember reading a friend’s copy of one of Coates’ IGEW issues where he revealed the Orisha were somehow trapped in mortal bodies and had to be freed through the prayer of the Wakandan people during the war with the Originators. Either way we know they’re children of the Elder Gods, I don’t remember if they were born that way and somehow ended up in human form or if they were always human. If it was the former I’d have a bit less issue with the retcon.

Because the Wakandan gods were retconned into Egyptian gods (or at least the Panther god was), it makes the retcon very messy. Prior to Priest retconning the Panther god into Past, the Panther god was pretty much a blank slate any writer could do anything with (and arguably the Panther god should have stayed that way). But retconning the Panther god into Bast gives her a well fleshed out back story... and that makes it tougher to Coates retcon to fit in. It's a pretty messy retcon.

[DigiCom]

Because the Wakandan gods were retconned into Egyptian gods (or at least the Panther god was), it makes the retcon very messy. Prior to Priest retconning the Panther god into Past, the Panther god was pretty much a blank slate any writer could do anything with (and arguably the Panther god should have stayed that way). But retconning the Panther god into Bast gives her a well fleshed out back story... and that makes it tougher to Coates retcon to fit in. It's a pretty messy retcon.

Even if he hadn't: "Bast is a Wakandan hero who was turned into a god so they could defeat the original inhabitants of the land that eventually became Wakanda" is a pretty ishty retcon.

[Vordan]

Has this been posted yet? Most black panther, plus shuri and kilmonger comics are free right now for anyone who does do digital comics.


https://m.comixology.com/search/item...=SINGLE_ISSUES

https://www.comixology.com/Shuri-201...cmllc1NsaWRlcg

https://www.comixology.com/Killmonge...3VsdHNTbGlkZXI

The news was posted but not the links. Wish they had made the collected editions free but it’s still a great deal.

[DigiCom]

But even if we knew with 100% certanty that the Doras we saw in Hudlins run were in fact over 16, again the flaw in your reasoning is that just because those Doras were over 16 doesn't mean ALL Doras throughout history were. Doras can be different ages. At most it would mean the Doras used in Hudlins run were over 16... and again we don't even actually know that..

We also don't know for certain that they are all black, or even female. Maybe Azzari was the first person to have female Dora, and all the panthers before him used mature blonde guys! It's not shown on panel, so it could be true!

[XJlock]

Is there a specific cape that Black Panther wore that you fancy more than another?