Cassandra Cain (Batgirl, Black Bat) Appreciation

[Assam]

Cass was never on a teen team, and was ignored by the Superman/Batman title. In Gotham Knights, the Bat family book, she was lucky to be a supporting character. In the individual books themselves, Cass was on the fringes. I can't think of a single meaningful team-up Cass had with Nightwing, at all, and with Robin prior to moving to Bludhaven. And I can only think of two times Cass teamed up with Batman to a meaningful degree. Three, if one counts Batman saving Cain.

Huntress got more frequent flier miles than Cass, and I'm not counting Birds. And of course, the embargo.

I love Cass, but she's always been the odd man out on the Bat fam. Brubaker's the only one who really embraced her, everyone else resents that she's not Babs or have no idea how to use her

The argument being made wasn't whether or not Cass got a lot to do in team-ups. The argument was about how Cass works with teams, and my pointing out that there really isn't enough data to make an argument one way or another.

Also, while she was criminally underutilized, I do like some of her appearances in Gotham Knights, a handful of interactions with Dick, although the only time they worked together, just the two of them, was in the Murderer/Fugitive tie-in in Cass's book, several with Tim prior to Bludhaven, most notably Batgirl #18 where they first became friends, and I'm really not sure how you get that number for Bruce when he was a regular supporting character for most of her book...

Wait, were you talking about team-ups OUTSIDE her book? Because that's really not what we were talking about.

[reni344]

Cass was never on a teen team, and was ignored by the Superman/Batman title. In Gotham Knights, the Bat family book, she was lucky to be a supporting character. In the individual books themselves, Cass was on the fringes. I can't think of a single meaningful team-up Cass had with Nightwing, at all, and with Robin prior to moving to Bludhaven. And I can only think of two times Cass teamed up with Batman to a meaningful degree. Three, if one counts Batman saving Cain.

Huntress got more frequent flier miles than Cass, and I'm not counting Birds. And of course, the embargo.

I love Cass, but she's always been the odd man out on the Bat fam. Brubaker's the only one who really embraced her, everyone else resents that she's not Babs or have no idea how to use her

This could explain why I really never knew about Cass I found out about her long after the fact. She did not ahve a meanigful appearance to my knowledge in any Bat title I was reading. I read Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, Catwoman and Batgirl with Steph and I think that was the first time I saw her. Or it might have been Teen Titans.

[Assam]

This could explain why I really never knew about Cass I found out about her long after the fact. She did not ahve a meanigful appearance to my knowledge in any Bat title I was reading. I read Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Gotham City Sirens, Catwoman and Batgirl with Steph and I think that was the first time I saw her. Or it might have been Teen Titans.

Want a full recommendation list? After the last time someone asked for one, I decided, "Hey, how about I stop being an idiot and actually save this" so I can just pull it up for you if you'd like.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The argument being made wasn't whether or not Cass got a lot to do in team-ups. The argument was about how Cass works with teams, and my pointing out that there really isn't enough data to make an argument one way or another.

Also, while she was criminally underutilized, I do like some of her appearances in Gotham Knights, a handful of interactions with Dick, although the only time they worked together, just the two of them, was in the Murderer/Fugitive tie-in in Cass's book, several with Tim prior to Bludhaven, most notably Batgirl #18 where they first became friends, and I'm really not sure how you get that number for Bruce when he was a regular supporting character for most of her book...

Wait, were you talking about team-ups OUTSIDE her book? Because that's really not what we were talking about.

Ah okay

And I got that number for Bruce because while he often appeared in her book, she virtually never appeared in his book. And Cass had some neat moments in Knights, but she never had any *plots*

[sakuyamons]

Batgirls are often left out of team books, for some reason. Excluding Barbara, of course, I wouldn't call Cass the odd man out...if someone was interested, she'd be as popular as X-23 at Marvel.

[Frontier]

Batgirls are often left out of team books, for some reason. Excluding Barbara, of course, I wouldn't call Cass the odd man out...if someone was interested, she'd be as popular as X-23 at Marvel.

I think she does have some surprising similarities to Laura Kinney.

[Assam]

I think she does have some surprising similarities to Laura Kinney.

They're definitely there, but I think people tend to overemphasize them, and in the process, do a disservice to them both. Yes, on the surface, there are many shared traits and they most definitely are part of the same archetype. However, their characters are vastly different once you get to who they really are as people. And considering I feel that they're two of the most complex, well-developed and unique characters their respective companies have, it's a little irksome to see some people calling them basically the same because of the things they do share, without looking at all their differences. (Obviously not talking about either of you Frontier or Sakuyamons, just saying in general.) If Laura was Cass with claws, I wouldn't love her like I do (she's currently my #2 hero over at Marvel) because I don't much care for rip-offs. (Also frustrating: People who don't know how linear time works and call Cass a clone of Laura. Damn it people, you can literally find out the dates of their first appearances in less than 30 seconds on your phones.)

[Frontier]

They're definitely there, but I think people tend to overemphasize them, and in the process, do a disservice to them both. Yes, on the surface, there are many shared traits and they most definitely are part of the same archetype. However, their characters are vastly different once you get to who they really are as people. And considering I feel that they're two of the most complex, well-developed and unique characters their respective companies have, it's a little irksome to see some people calling them basically the same because of the things they do share, without looking at all their differences. (Obviously not talking about either of you Frontier or Sakuyamons, just saying in general.) If Laura was Cass with claws, I wouldn't love her like I do (she's currently my #2 hero over at Marvel) because I don't much care for rip-offs. (Also frustrating: People who don't know how linear time works and call Cass a clone of Laura. Damn it people, you can literally find out the dates of their first appearances in less than 30 seconds on your phones.)

I think that's true for virtually any character comparison between DC and Marvel characters.

[AJpyro]

Want a full recommendation list? After the last time someone asked for one, I decided, "Hey, how about I stop being an idiot and actually save this" so I can just pull it up for you if you'd like.

Pm me that list please?

[Assam]

Pm me that list please?

Sure thing!

[sakuyamons]

I think that's true for virtually any character comparison between DC and Marvel characters.

Yeah and I don’t think Laura’s creators were like “hey!! Let’s make a Cass knock-off”

Who’s your #1 marvel hero, Assam?

[Assam]

Who’s your #1 marvel hero, Assam?

squirrel girl.jpg

Doreen Green: The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl

[Frontier]

squirrel girl.jpg

10char

This does not surprise me in the slightest .

[millernumber1]

Sure thing!

I'm really curious about this question: What makes a good list? Length, number of issues, importance, etc? Like, whenever someone asks me, "What should I read of Steph," I just say, "BEHOLD THE STEPH WIKI", but that's probably a lot to absorb (though I've tried to make it pretty easy to find storylines and stuff). But I'm wondering if I need to develop a shortlist of "Best Steph" or something.

[Assam]

This does not surprise me in the slightest .

Yeah, I guess with my DC tastes it isn't exactly shocking that I'd adore Doreen and her book. (Not that there isn't tons of dark, serious and very intelligent stuff I enjoy, but I've made my love of pure fun no secret.)

The funny thing with Marvel is that most of my top favorites I've only been introduced to recently (Kamala and Doreen), only really gotten into recently (Laura), or only been introduced to in the last few months (The Runaways).

As a kid, when someone asked me who my favorite Marvel hero was, I'd give one of four answers generally: Sam Wilson, Steve Rogers, Scott Summers, or Kurt Wagner. Still love those guys and Sam is on top among them, but they've been surpassed in my eyes.

I'm really curious about this question: What makes a good list? Length, number of issues, importance, etc? Like, whenever someone asks me, "What should I read of Steph," I just say, "BEHOLD THE STEPH WIKI", but that's probably a lot to absorb (though I've tried to make it pretty easy to find storylines and stuff). But I'm wondering if I need to develop a shortlist of "Best Steph" or something.

For mine, I broke it down into three categories:

1) Stuff that you shouldn't read under any circumstances.

2) The ESSENTIAL stuff. The reasons as to why they're so loved, and display different aspects of the character and their relationships.

3) Other stuff that isn't bad, but isn't essential.

And I finish with a clarification that while there's more than what I've mentioned, it's not unreadable, but it isn't good either.