X-Men Monday #15

[KangMiRae]

Why does Jean Grey need to be with Scott at all? People grow apart. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Emma with Scott either, I just want Jean to be her own individual person and rising up as the strong prominent character she should be. Storm does just fine without an ongoing relationship dominating her life. Even her relationship with Forge and Black Panther tended to take a back seat to who she was as a character.

Jean Grey is not defined by her relationship with Scott Summers. I know the writers will probably pursue the triangle thing with Jean, Emma, and Scott, but I really hope it doesn't dominate their stories, I don't care if they pursue the drama of it a little bit, but I want Jean and Emma to stand on their own and neither one of them should be defined by any relationship they have.

This is why I try to avoid getting sucked into a ship whenever possible, because the next writer may hate the ship. I like Code Geass anime, and I always wanted Lelouch and C.C. to end up together, but the anime kept all the relationships fairly chaste over all so there wasn't any point getting overboard on any ship. One writer likes Jean with Scott, another writer likes Jean with Logan, another writer likes Emma with Scott, another writer might like Emma with Hank. It's always going to change from writer to writer. My expectation isn't about the ships at all, I just want the writers to do justice to the characters. Characters like Jean and Emma are strong female characters so I want to see them stand on their own two feet and not always be defined by the relationships they have.

I hate when Jean is written in the shadow of a male character like she was often written in Charles' shadow, or Scott's shadow, or even Logan's shadow. Jean Grey is one of my favorite characters she is a rich enough character that she doesn't need to stand in anyone's shadow and should be able to stand on her own. I hope Hickman writes her like that, I like that his emphasis is that she is a prominent part of HoX/PoX, this is exactly where she should be, Jean should be one of the pre-eminent characters of the X-Men and I hope that is exactly where she is under Hickman's run.

Buddy, you're raging against the inevitable here. You may as well not bother with Jean Grey if this is how much you hate her in a relationship. Her character doesn't need to be defined by Scott Summers, but her character is built through and involved with him. To deny that is to deny the character.

[RachelGrey]

Buddy, you're raging against the inevitable here. You may as well not bother with Jean Grey if this is how much you hate her in a relationship. Her character doesn't need to be defined by Scott Summers, but her character is built through and involved with him. To deny that is to deny the character.

That doesn't mean she can't get some more story development separate from Scott. I am not going to hold my breath that Jean and Scott will be on different teams, but personally I think it would be great if Jean leads a team, and Scott leads a different team. This way their romance doesn't define their books, it can still be explored, but Jean is able to stand on her own leading her own team and the relationship stories are mostly saved for when they are at home base.

[Silver Fang]

I meant that as in, there's nothing else to discuss from the interview. People always complain "Oh here we go, the convo is about the relationships" like there's anything more to discuss lol.

Agreed. I know it does get old for some. But honestly, the last few X-Mondays haven't given much more to talk about. Emma & Jean both got X-Mondays dedicated to them where Scott came up in some way and writers / editor giving thoughts on the relationships. And that was the most info we got because anything else is "spoilers." So it leads to pairing discussion because we're not getting much new stuff right now. We're in a stalemate until the SDCC, which isn't until the middle of next month. lol

I'd love to see more HOX and POX stuff, especially some interiors, but we're not getting too much. And the little we do get mostly revolves around answers & scans regarding Emma, Scott, Jean, and Logan. And there's few ways to go with that. lol You can argue about Scogan Schism. Or you can argue about the Triangle.

I'd like to see an X-Monday on Hickman'stop 5 (excluding Emma. She had her turns.). Lets get some Q&A about Sinister, Monet, and Sunspot. They're popular enough, and it provides a break from talking & hearing about the same four characters. But I doubt we're gonna get that.

[TheCape]

On the one hand, Scott subverts it. Emma doesn't have him by the balls. Compared to 99% of other relationships where the women are in charge & the men are completely pussified. You know me. You know my two favorite characters. And we BOTH know how pathetic they were / are in their main relationships where the women are wearing the balls they lost somewhere in 2003.

Also, welcome back. Doesn't seem I have seen you in a while.

But yeah, I am tired of these uneven relationships.When men were doing this to women, it was offensive & sexist. So I want the same consideration for my fav. male characters. I don't want to see them thrust into relationships with women who clearly don't see or respect them as equals & it's made obvious in the bad treatment.

I'm not expert on Scemma, so i can't really say how true is that, but your probably right if what his fans say is true. Personally, i like Hicupp and Astrid for How To Train Your Dragon, in spite their rocky they got a pretty damn good slowburn romance in the tv show. That hasn't happen to me because well, my favorite had the luck or having at least one interesting romance (Peter Parker was treated like crap for some time, but that wasn't exclusive from women to be honest), still i understand, most pairings these days are pretty shallow and poorly done.

I had been busy but i'm glad to be back, is good to see you too.

[cranger]

I just want Jean to be her own individual person and rising up as the strong prominent character she should be.

It is not that she needs to be with Scott. The issue is the notion that she is held back by being with Scott, or whoever else. Jean was plenty strong in the past. The problem is when writers think the X-Men books have to be told through one or two character's perspective and cannot or will not write a team book properly. In those cases, every other character is in the shadow of the lead character, whatever their relationship may be. This is why the problem is also reflected in readers who need to see their favourite character in a solo or as the team leader. If a writer cannot do the job, just avoid the book and wait for someone who can actually write to come along.

[PrezValentine]

1 - 2017 is not that long ago? The specific tweet is from less than 2 years ago...

2 - From 2018: https://twitter.com/seananmcguire/st...71283666903040

She has like a thousand of those over the years, and has also given more in-depth explanations as to why she doesn't like Jean.

I know you just LOVE this little ongoing beef with spirit and whoever else, and sometimes it is really ridiculous stuff, but in this case is true. I didn't wanna be making a huge issue out of this either, cause as Maestroneto said she's(most likely) not writing the character anyway, but it's so annoying how people don't hesitate to dismiss it as nonsense without checking just because of who brought it up.

It becomes nonsense from the moment it's clear how irrelevant it is (since she won't be writing Jean) and the complaint can be summed as "this person is being given a platform to talk about a character and I don't like that" since she in no way dismissed Jean or displayed any negativity towards her. McGuire could have permanently changed her mind about Jean 24 hours before the question and that still wouldn't make a difference.

Also, I don't have a beef with that poster because, frankly, it's unbecoming of my age. Not my fault that they become aggressive at any being, even fictional ones, for how they view Emma or Jean.

[KangMiRae]

That doesn't mean she can't get some more story development separate from Scott. I am not going to hold my breath that Jean and Scott will be on different teams, but personally I think it would be great if Jean leads a team, and Scott leads a different team. This way their romance doesn't define their books, it can still be explored, but Jean is able to stand on her own leading her own team and the relationship stories are mostly saved for when they are at home base.

For sure. Hickman says she's prominent, and if HoX/PoX is about Prof. X's big plan, there's no one he trusts more than Jean. She's like his go-to student/X-Men. I highly doubt Hickman's gonna spend any time during this miniseries on relationships. Maybe once the flagship starts. But as of now, the character has little more to talk about than space chicken and Scott. If Marvel had any creativity, they'd give Jean Grey a new space chicken boyfriend.

[KangMiRae]

Agreed. I know it does get old for some. But honestly, the last few X-Mondays haven't given much more to talk about. Emma & Jean both got X-Mondays dedicated to them where Scott came up in some way and writers / editor giving thoughts on the relationships. And that was the most info we got because anything else is "spoilers." So it leads to pairing discussion because we're not getting much new stuff right now. We're in a stalemate until the SDCC, which isn't until the middle of next month. lol

I'd love to see more HOX and POX stuff, especially some interiors, but we're not getting too much. And the little we do get mostly revolves around answers & scans regarding Emma, Scott, Jean, and Logan. And there's few ways to go with that. lol You can argue about Scogan Schism. Or you can argue about the Triangle.

I'd like to see an X-Monday on Hickman'stop 5. Lets get some Q&A about Sinister, Monet, and Sunspot. They're popular enough, and it provides a break from talking about the same four characters. But I doubt we're gonna get that.

And the thing with SDCC is that the creative teams will also get announced as well as the books, so not only do we get an idea of what the X-Line will be like since no more team-books according to Hickman, but we'll see the flagship book, too.

[KangMiRae]

It is not that she needs to be with Scott. The issue is the notion that she is held back by being with Scott, or whoever else. Jean was plenty strong in the past. The problem is when writers think the X-Men books have to be told through one or two character's perspective and cannot or will not write a team book properly. In those cases, every other character is in the shadow of the lead character, whatever their relationship may be. This is why the problem is also reflected in readers who need to see their favourite character in a solo or as the team leader. If a writer cannot do the job, just avoid the book and wait for someone who can actually write to come along.

God, I want to quote you in my signature forevermore. I agree with you so hard!

[maxi_miceli]

I saw it painting Emma in a bad light. Where Scott says being with Emma is good because she's got low standards. "No expectations." He can do whatever he wants, and she'll accept it. He can be his worst self, and she'll accept it. Sounds like a doormat.

Then with Jean, he feels like a teenager again, but he's not. So he had to make effort with her in being a better person, and it was too much. But Emma doesn't require the same effort that Jean did. And it can be interpreted as Emma loving him for who he's become. OR Emma loving him when he doesn't have to try compared to Jean who expects more/ better from him.

That's how that can come off. lol

So it can go either way with interpretation. Whether the scene favored Scemma or Jott.

It's better not to think to much about Emma portrayal regarding Scott in NXM, because Morrison can't even claim that it's an old story to justify Emma raping Scott, because the alteration of the patient's consent by the terapist's power over him/her is a very old concept, Scott even insisted that he was doing the terapy to save his marriage, and she admited to be acrewing with him to get back on Jean (until she fell for him)
And last week's UXM has a very good portrayal of a lot of the Scemma caracterization, she says that if he was alive she would had had him in her bed, he had broken up with her several months before dying, she essentially strips him of his agency, to make it easier to understand imagine the genders switched to show the more classic version of the concept, there were some writers who had them as a healthy couple but a lot of others didn't

[PrezValentine]

It is not that she needs to be with Scott. The issue is the notion that she is held back by being with Scott, or whoever else. Jean was plenty strong in the past. The problem is when writers think the X-Men books have to be told through one or two character's perspective and cannot or will not write a team book properly. In those cases, every other character is in the shadow of the lead character, whatever their relationship may be. This is why the problem is also reflected in readers who need to see their favourite character in a solo or as the team leader. If a writer cannot do the job, just avoid the book and wait for someone who can actually write to come along.

Everytime someone says Scott held Jean back, I wonder how in the world they came to like the character since she was with him for most of her history.

If we go by that mindset, those people are fans of half a character or less since Scott apparently never allowed her to reach her full potential. It's mindblowing!

[Silver Fang]

And the thing with SDCC is that the creative teams will also get announced as well as the books, so not only do we get an idea of what the X-Line will be like since no more team-books according to Hickman, but we'll see the flagship book, too.

Yeah. But sadly it's still a LONG wait. I couldn't help but laugh. Almost everything I am interested in, entertainment-wise, has to wait until Jul.

1. SDCC
2. HOX/POX
3. Art Commission from Lolli
4. UFC Fight(s)
etc.

So honestly, I am just counting down days & hours for this month to pass.

[KangMiRae]

Everytime someone says Scott held Jean back, I wonder how in the world they came to like the character since she was with him for most of her history.

If we go by that mindset, those people are fans of half a character or less since Scott apparently never allowed her to reach her full potential. It's mindblowing!

People who dislike Jott aren't Jean Grey fans, they'll say that but they're full of it. They're Scott Summer haters. That's all it is. It's nearly impossible to like the damn character while hating the idea of her being with Scott since most of her character was about space KFC or lethal Stevie Wonder.

[TheCape]

Everytime someone says Scott held Jean back, I wonder how in the world they came to like the character since she was with him for most of her history.

If we go by that mindset, those people are fans of half a character or less since Scott apparently never allowed her to reach her full potential. It's mindblowing!

Some people are more in love with their fanon than the actual character, is something that i see very often in other fandoms, especially tumblr.

[spirit2011]

People who dislike Jott aren't Jean Grey fans, they'll say that but they're full of it. They're Scott Summer haters. That's all it is. It's nearly impossible to like the damn character while hating her being with Scott since most of her character was with space KFC or lethal Stevie Wonder.

I think it is perfectly normal like Jean and not like Jott. The relationship screwed over her very badly.

Scott never gave his support for Jean on new x-men when she was dealing with Phoenix. Unless everyone gonna agree it is out of character like the whole run.
But it happneed and it is all canon, that was even build by other writers