Gotham TV Show

[kalorama]

This show just committed suicide Jerome was the best part of this season and they wasted it.

Couldn't disagree more. Jerome was annoying and I'm glad he's gone.

Besides how many times are they going to use this lame ass _____ villian isn't a person they are an idea schtick? They already used it on Red Hood now the joker too? WTF?

So they've used it twice? That seems to fall pretty well short of being overused.

I love Crazy Barbara.

She's definitely more interesting than whiny, clingy, boozy Barbara, but that's damning with faint praise, really.

Best part of the ep was Alfred puttin' the moves on Dr. Thompkins. That was fun.

[AndrewCrossett]

It's going to be very hard for this show to find an Ultimate Joker who's as good as the red herring Joker. I certainly hope they are aiming for a single character eventually... giggling idiots walking around stabbing each other isn't going to be very compelling.

But the show has earned my trust, for now, that the writers know what they're doing.

And, if this show has established anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's that Erin Richards has really, really good legs.

I have to say that Theo Galavan is the worst actor I've ever seen (the character, not the actual actor). When he "confronted" Jerome on the stage it was such an overblown, melodramatic piece of ham acting I can't believe anyone took it seriously.

[Jadeb]

I thought Jerome was becoming less effective the more they used him, but Cameron Monaghan did a good job here, so I was sorry to see him go. Still, better to leave 'em wanting more, and they can always bring him back later.

Gotham is better this season, but I still think it's pretty poor. The random people becoming Jokerized just by watching TV was lame and nonsensical. Barbara isn't interesting at all, and I care about the new big bad about as much as I did the Ogre, or whoever that dude was. Which is to say not at all.

If they're going to take dramatic liberties with the Bat characters, the story could be much more compelling. Missed opportunity so far.

[PretenderNX01]

Maybe this universe Joker is a zombie or something, explains the pale skin Or a demon.
I'll miss him but they got all they could out of him at this point. They can't go too far into Batman territory and they have Catwoman, Penguin and Riddler already.

DEADLINE: So, with Season 2 heading into its last episodes of production, have you cast an actual Joker yet, or is that still in the cards?
HELLER: We have not cast an actual Joker yet.

DEADLINE: You know that a lot of shows would have used this big a twist on this big a character for a season ender. Why did you get this out there so early in this Rise Of The Villains season?
HELLER: If we’d left it for a season ender, I think people would have felt that we had sold them a dummy, if you like. That it was a red herring, that we were just simply using the brilliance of Cameron Monaghan to goose the show. When in fact, it’s actually a much deeper and longer game we’re playing. We want them to ask that question and be engaged in, you know, how the hell does this longer story play out? You make it a season ender, you’re kind of putting more weight on it, and you’re kind of tricking the audience. We don’t want to trick the audience.

Look, it was very much a considered decision, and we recognized that we’re putting a twist in the story that will take some people aback and be shocking. Fine. We weren’t trying to lie before about who Jerome is, and where he’s going, but it’s the first chapter in a longer story.

http://deadline.com/2015/10/gotham-j...ox-1201566479/

So I'm guessing Tabitha and Theo aren't actually siblings? Or are they closer than Wanda and Pietro?

[daBronzeBomma]

If Jerome is truly never coming back, then sign me up for the "Barbara Kean becomes this GOTHAM's Joker" bandwagon.

[TheLemsterPju]

I have to say that Theo Galavan is the worst actor I've ever seen (the character, not the actual actor). When he "confronted" Jerome on the stage it was such an overblown, melodramatic piece of ham acting I can't believe anyone took it seriously.

The sad thing is, they'll HAVE to believe it in order for Theo to eventually become mayor. Otherwise, he serves no purpose. To put into context, Jim Gordon and Bruce Wayne are quite literally the only people in Gotham who aren't as dumb as a sack of **** (or just ignorant to the truth) to fit the whole idea of the city being "hopeless" without them.

But realism is something not worth looking for in Gotham anyway.

[kalorama]

I have to say that Theo Galavan is the worst actor I've ever seen (the character, not the actual actor). When he "confronted" Jerome on the stage it was such an overblown, melodramatic piece of ham acting I can't believe anyone took it seriously.

Well, that was kind of the point, I would think. He was "playing" a guy who most would assume was putting on a tough front in a life-threatening situation to cover how scared he was. Having it come across as forced and stagey probably made it seem more authentic to the people in the crowd.

[PretenderNX01]

If Jerome is truly never coming back, then sign me up for the "Barbara Kean becomes this GOTHAM's Joker" bandwagon.

That would actually be awesome. Kind of like Earth Two Joker.

I was trying to remember where I remembered the showrunner saying he hoped to still fool people with Joker and found it:

Will some of the possibilities for The Joker be more obvious than others?

HELLER: Yes. Some of them will be schmuck bait for idiots, and others will be ones that only deep-thinking DC afficionados will even understand where we’re going. And then, hopefully we’ll pull the rug out.
http://collider.com/gotham-joker-det...ler-interview/

That was him pulling the rug out I guess.

[Majesty]

It's going to be very hard for this show to find an Ultimate Joker who's as good as the red herring Joker. I certainly hope they are aiming for a single character eventually... giggling idiots walking around stabbing each other isn't going to be very compelling.

But the show has earned my trust, for now, that the writers know what they're doing.

And, if this show has established anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, it's that Erin Richards has really, really good legs.

I have to say that Theo Galavan is the worst actor I've ever seen (the character, not the actual actor). When he "confronted" Jerome on the stage it was such an overblown, melodramatic piece of ham acting I can't believe anyone took it seriously.

So it was like a Comic Book

[Majesty]

One thing I think goes over some people over the head is that.


THIS show isn't about establishing all the villains.

This show is about the actions that get Gotham to the point where a BATMAN is necessary.

Jerome didn't "Joker-ize" Gotham, he just inspired more madness in a city that is already on the tipping point. Though there is probably a kid out there that will see his actions and go "Hmm... I LIKE this guys style..he's a lot like me... except I can do that...and I can do it a LOT..better..." and guess who that kid will become? "The Joker" is just as much a Symbol as "Batman". Why wouldn't he be? So it makes a lot of sense.


Consider Gotham in this show and then consider the Gotham that Batman has to deal with on a nightly basis. There were MANY tipping points to get the city to that point. Jerome is just one of the many blocks that will fall that will send Gotham into where it will become. It will become a Gotham that is so terrible that Jim Gordan CAN'T do this on his own.

Currently Gotham is crazy, but it's nothing that Jim can't handle at the moment. But it's gonna start getting there.


Remember, this "current" Gotham isn't one that needs a "Batman" yet.


Jerome was just the tipping point of a larger arc.. not just for the Joker.. but for the City of Gotham itself.

Think about it

[WeaponX]

Well, that was kind of the point, I would think. He was "playing" a guy who most would assume was putting on a tough front in a life-threatening situation to cover how scared he was. Having it come across as forced and stagey probably made it seem more authentic to the people in the crowd.

There is a difference between someone putting on a front and something seeming totally rehearsed. That one was definately the later. Which makes anyone that believes that wasn't a set up look extremely dumb.

[WeaponX]

Gotham was damaged long before Batman and his rogues came around. This is just them planting the seeds.

And, again, it's not as if this will ever be canon in any Batman series, so no harm no foul.

Durrr I know that. I'm not following this show under some false hope it will show the official origin of anyone.

[WeaponX]

One thing I think goes over some people over the head is that.


THIS show isn't about establishing all the villains.

This show is about the actions that get Gotham to the point where a BATMAN is necessary.

Jerome didn't "Joker-ize" Gotham, he just inspired more madness in a city that is already on the tipping point. Though there is probably a kid out there that will see his actions and go "Hmm... I LIKE this guys style..he's a lot like me... except I can do that...and I can do it a LOT..better..." and guess who that kid will become? "The Joker" is just as much a Symbol as "Batman". Why wouldn't he be? So it makes a lot of sense.


Consider Gotham in this show and then consider the Gotham that Batman has to deal with on a nightly basis. There were MANY tipping points to get the city to that point. Jerome is just one of the many blocks that will fall that will send Gotham into where it will become. It will become a Gotham that is so terrible that Jim Gordan CAN'T do this on his own.

Currently Gotham is crazy, but it's nothing that Jim can't handle at the moment. But it's gonna start getting there.


Remember, this "current" Gotham isn't one that needs a "Batman" yet.


Jerome was just the tipping point of a larger arc.. not just for the Joker.. but for the City of Gotham itself.

Think about it

Yeah, no. First Gotham is already in desperate need of Batman. There are criminal organization operating with impunity, random psychos killing people be the score daily, and a completely corrupt GCPD that can't get anything done within the rules.

Second there isn't anywhere for the real joker to take Jeromes act to the next level besides putting on some makeup. Jerome already was the force of chaos that revals in his evil that the Joker is. So really this relagates the real Joker to being a knock off of the original. Sure Jerome didn't take up the name or the clown look but everything that really makes the Joker the Joker Jerome already did. Like another poster put it so well if your going to use a red herring you better make sure it's not better than your actual answer. And I have a hard time thinking of a better back story or an actor that will play the young Joker better than the kid that played Jerome.

Also I realize the show isn't going to set up every major Batman villian but they are going to need to stop with these fake outs they have already used it with the Red Hood and now the Joker and it's already tiresome. You won't find many fans investing in your show if you keep devoting episodes of content to red herrings. It's basically says to the viewer yeah you wasted your time watching those episodes.

Oh and the Joker as a symbol is a horrible idea. There is a reason every serial killer ever has failed to start the blood revolution so many crave. It's because most people even the evil ones don't set out to be the bad guy it's not something that anyone really sets as a goal. And the few that do are so egotistical they are never going to take up someone else's monicker they want credit. That's why many get caught they can't stand not taking credit for their actions not getting the fame they deserve.

[Ceebiro]

Ya know, where's major crimes been hiding? Why hasn't Montoya shown up, what with her ex going crazy?

I've been wondering this same thing. One would think she'd be a cast regular at this point, and heck for me she would have been a good partner/foil for Gordon until Bullock joined back up.

Overall, show is still mediocre. Didn't like the "Spirit of the Joker" ending.

[PretenderNX01]

Though there is probably a kid out there that will see his actions and go "Hmm... I LIKE this guys style..he's a lot like me... except I can do that...and I can do it a LOT..better..."

For some reason that reminds me of Galavan when he's auditioning who should lead, he liked Jerome's style but sacrificed him in a twist. It was kind of a meta comment what he said when he did it too. Speaking of Galavan, I think the hammy acting was for our benefit to signal right away he was faking it. It's something I've seen in other shows, it's like how no one ever sees Ma Beagle and the Beagle Boys are still wearing robber masks when in their disguise.

I've been wondering this same thing. One would think she'd be a cast regular at this point, and heck for me she would have been a good partner/foil for Gordon until Bullock joined back up.

I like Montoya but she's not in the show anymore. She disappeared halfway through the first season but was still a regular but they didn't bring her back for this one.
http://tvline.com/2015/08/02/penny-l...dding-married/

I hope she guests.