Uncanny X-Men #4 (spoilers/discussion)

[Snoop Dogg]

we've seen so many times?

Stuff that falls under this category is 90% of the event, homie.

[Havok83]

Oh, right. I was confusing the storyline with X3. So, what is the point of the vaccine storyline then? Or it just another big existential threat to mutants like we've seen so many times?

No clue as it already seems to have been upstaged by Nate's mess. Maybe Beast modified it or discovered its been modified to be more deadly

[butterflykyss]

It's come across to me as basically "Storm can do aaaaaaaaall these different things because she had a writer that wrote her with intent to make her the star, so Storm can do anything involving energy and doesn't need anyone else unless it's something incredibly rare and obscure." I'm fine with Storm being like the red mage of the X-Men, but there has to be a trade-off. A jack-of-all-trades is able to do many different things because they've trained for versatility, not expertise. I find something very wrong with a premise that essentially becomes "We shouldn't hire an expert in French except in the absolute rarest of circumstances, we have someone with passable French that'll do just fine."

I think in the context in which she premiered, the first black female superhero who also led a popular superhero team, this was very important to be shown which was a woman of color doing amazing and awesome things. At the time that was never shown or heard of. However, I disagree with the premise there has to be a trade-off. It's extremely rare that you have a black female character as popular as Ororo being shown doing the things she can do. In a world of Jean Greys, Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Spiderman, Hulk, Thor, Ironman, Captain Marvel, we need a powerful black female character such as Ororo who can do it all. For me it goes way beyond trying to lowball characters such as Polaris but touches to the need of inclusion and diversity.

Elsewhere, I saw people complaining about how writers had Storm using lightning on Magneto when she should be using other types of attacks because lightning is in Magneto's wheelhouse. This is basically the same thing. This is part of Lorna's wheelhouse.

Again as I mentioned before I never feel another character's abilities should be lowballed in the effort to show how spectacular another character is. As i read the old uncanny issues i never felt this was per say done to Polaris as all characters went through a similar thing. Ororo lost her powers, Jean died, Cyclops lost to a powerless Ororo for leadership of the Xmen, etc. There were many instances where each of "big guns" of the Xmen were humbled in a way to allow them to be seen beyond their power. I think this was the same in the case of Polaris.

I'm glad you don't support characters being written down to prop up other characters. It's a problem I've noticed with comic books that has its roots in "my fave can beat up your fave" (e.g. Batman vs Superman, and how Superman's at times been written dumber, easily tricked or taken advantage of, etc). I try to resist such lines of thinking even when they might appear to "benefit" Lorna as I want Lorna to get her due the right way.

Polaris is one of the Xmen's heavy hitters so I think you wanting to see her portrayed in the best light is fair and i wholeheartedly agree. I just don't want my fave to be displayed in a lesser manner that contradicts established canon for the benefit for other characters. I think we both want the same thing here.

As for how Storm's being written, I can't say whether it's good or bad, but I can say she's at least being written with a basic foundation of respect. I can't say that for Lorna.

when you say ororo is being written with a basic foundation of respect what do you mean by that? because i completely disagree with this sentiment. in fact the opposite has occurred for a LONG time with her appearances in the xbooks.

Marvel's considered Storm essential enough that she's been part of every X-Men event, and been either a member of a team or star of a solo at all times. She was a member of the all-female X-Men team, with its premise of featuring the core living X-Women.

See here's the thing. Her being a part of every X-men event is different from her actually adding something meaningful to the story being told. There are a couple of exceptions (including the one you mentioned) where there were attempts to include her in a meaningful way but a lot of her appearances come across as her being as the token recognizable black character.

By contrast, Lorna was in limbo for two years after Secret Wars, has never had a solo, and Uncanny X-Men is the only X-Men event she's been able to take part in this decade (Unless you count the few panels of Regenesis used only to say "Yep she's goin to X-Factor"). Second woman to join the X-Men after Jean Grey, and she didn't get to be on the all-female X-Men team. Even with a TV version of her turning out to be the most popular character on that show, she's only barely showing up in a few scenes here and there. Any other character popular through a TV show and with the long history Lorna's had probably would've had a solo book by now. Marvel was certainly eager to relaunch Exiles and put Blink on a team when they thought Blink was going to be the breakout star of the show.

I don't know if I can breakdown why Ororo in how she is handled is quite different from a franchise that is filled with a sea of white characters, especially when you are a fan of Polaris. I know she has not been given her due respect and its good that she is starting to be more visible. However, there are many many white characters with varieties of powers that are showcased in practically all the xbooks and marvel books in general. The same is not true for the black ones. I was mentioning this in her forum but Ororo is the one of the few characters I can think of who has gotten weaker and more idiotic in her appearances and time has progressed. Usually, it's the other way around, which is my primary concern. Give Polaris and whatever other character their due respect but again this shouldn't come at the expense of one of the few popular black superheroes of the Marvel franchise.

I'm not saying a fan should support bad writing (if true) just cause she gets to be everywhere. But the first step to good writing is being written at all, and a huge part of that is the company acknowledging the character has unique worth, potential and history to deserve being written. Storm gets that automatically. Lorna requires jumping through a bajillion hoops across nearly a decade before Marvel even barely considers giving her a couple scenes. Getting exactly two scenes for Lorna in an event like this requires as much effort as it takes for Storm to get a solo book. Hell, the whole reason I'm currently commissioning a Polaris minicomic for Lorna's 50th anniversary is cause I know current Marvel's never going to do anything like that for her. So when things are said that (unintentionally or otherwise) imply Lorna shouldn't get to have the few moments she gets, I become very defensive.

I've always been a person who valued quality of quantity. I am not going to get excited for her being included in a story if it is not done in a meaningful way (a great example of this is the recent F4 issue she appeared in). I personally would prefer that the xoffices not write her at all and she be allowed to be written by a franchise that cares about the character beyond being just the token. This iteration of Uncanny isn't as bad as others previous xtitles but there is still a lot lacking in my personal opinion. Lastly I hope your efforts in your commission are successful. I would just hope that instead of being defensive you actually read what was said about the panel in question. No one said she should not have a few moments to shine; this I am most certain. The only thing that I have asked for was that Ororo not be lowballed in a manner that is disrespectful to her established canon (which a poster already explained was not the case as Polaris was talking to Nightcrawler). I think this is a sentiment you should understand and would be empathetic to seeing the points you have made about Polaris' history within Uncanny.

[salarta]

Use your ignore list. It helps (somewhat).

This is good advice. I've had way too many cases of people having it out for me on other sites that could've easily been avoided if they simply ignored me.


In light of comments made by others in the past couple pages, I'm going to refrain from saying anything more here on the topic I was discussing.

[PrezValentine]

I thought you were talking about the ignore function LMAO.

I mean, it fits. It works until someone quotes the person you added to the ignore list and it was all for nothing

[Hizashi]

More of the same, no marked improvement from the last issue. I didn't like some of the dialogue and I get that the writer's are trying to make both Armor and Jean sympathetic but I don't like the attitude from either one. And I don't care if David has info, he didn't approach the X-Men properly and deserves to be treated warily here - it's silly that he isn't simply questioned for info and instead is basically on the students' team. And Jamie spent a bunch of time being essentially tortured by David and he's on board that quick? Hopefully the next issue builds more momentum.

[CoCoBandz]

More of the same, no marked improvement from the last issue. I didn't like some of the dialogue and I get that the writer's are trying to make both Armor and Jean sympathetic but I don't like the attitude from either one. And I don't care if David has info, he didn't approach the X-Men properly and deserves to be treated warily here - it's silly that he isn't simply questioned for info and instead is basically on the students' team. And Jamie spent a bunch of time being essentially tortured by David and he's on board that quick? Hopefully the next issue builds more momentum.

What's silly is the fact that he was tied up to a chair...

[nx01a]

What's silly is the fact that he was tied up to a chair...

And not a power dampener or evidence of sustained telepathic sedation in sight.

[Celestialbodies]

I thought you were talking about the ignore function LMAO.

Same, I was like please do go on lol

[bladeofdarkness]

More of the same, no marked improvement from the last issue. I didn't like some of the dialogue and I get that the writer's are trying to make both Armor and Jean sympathetic but I don't like the attitude from either one. And I don't care if David has info, he didn't approach the X-Men properly and deserves to be treated warily here - it's silly that he isn't simply questioned for info and instead is basically on the students' team. And Jamie spent a bunch of time being essentially tortured by David and he's on board that quick? Hopefully the next issue builds more momentum.

He literaly walked right up to their front door, introduced himself, and stated that he aims to save the world.
Not his fault that the X-men were away trying to destroy what he was trying to create (the Madrox army).

Mind you, he's not blamelss, but he DID try to approche them in a fairly direct way.

[Snoop Dogg]

He should've used the Madupes to spam their email infinitely.

[bladeofdarkness]

He should've used the Madupes to spam their email infinitely.

Our name is Annonymus, and we are Legion.

[Hizashi]

He literaly walked right up to their front door, introduced himself, and stated that he aims to save the world.
Not his fault that the X-men were away trying to destroy what he was trying to create (the Madrox army).

Mind you, he's not blamelss, but he DID try to approche them in a fairly direct way.

He created the Madrox army - it couldn’t be his fault more if he was Madrox. Did he expect the X-Men to ignore multi-powered dupes consuming an entire state? A more direct approach would’ve been to go see them immediately, no Madrox army.

There is of course the possibility that we’re missing something, after all we still don’t know what David knows - if there was some greater logic to his actions I’ll amend my perspective, but as it stands he messed up.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

I thought you were talking about the ignore function LMAO.

I mean, it fits. It works until someone quotes the person you added to the ignore list and it was all for nothing

LOL OMG right!?

What's silly is the fact that he was tied up to a chair...

And not a power dampener or evidence of sustained telepathic sedation in sight.

Dude is sitting there telling them how he bent reality and some light bondage is supposed to keep him in check!?

He created the Madrox army - it couldn’t be his fault more if he was Madrox. Did he expect the X-Men to ignore multi-powered dupes consuming an entire state? A more direct approach would’ve been to go see them immediately, no Madrox army.

There is of course the possibility that we’re missing something, after all we still don’t know what David knows - if there was some greater logic to his actions I’ll amend my perspective, but as it stands he messed up.

Both David & Nate seem to be making decisions without thinking them through and it's all coming up messy...which makes sense from an internal story standpoint, but marvel isn't letting the readers in on that process. A little narrative boxes would go a long way. I hate this "figure out where this is going and what's going on" nonsense. It's poorly executed and makes for a lot less of an enjoyable story.