X-MEN GIANT SIZE JEAN GREY & EMMA FROST by Jonathan Hickman & Russell Dauterman

[Veitha]

We all look and sound like blonde high-school mean girls with these avatars.

There's this and the fact that Scott, Logan, Emma and Ororo have more stories than Jean, since she remained dead for so long, counting both the DPS to X-Factor era and the post-Morrison times. Or at least more stories in the modern era. Scott and Emma pretty much led the franchise. Wolverine is the most successful solo mutant. Storm led the X-Men whenever Claremont was around, married Black Panther and had a brief time with the Avengers. Jean got way less than that. It's hard for her fans and makes her a less interesting character in practical terms for people who aren't enamored with her. So it's hard to put her as this great centerpiece some want without it feeling awkward.

Agreed

[spirit2011]

There's this and the fact that Scott, Logan, Emma and Ororo have more stories than Jean, since she remained dead for so long, counting both the DPS to X-Factor era and the post-Morrison times. Or at least more stories in the modern era. Scott and Emma pretty much led the franchise. Wolverine is the most successful solo mutant. Storm led the X-Men whenever Claremont was around, married Black Panther and had a brief time with the Avengers. Jean got way less than that. It's hard for her fans and makes her a less interesting character in practical terms for people who aren't enamored with her. So it's hard to put her as this great centerpiece some want without it feeling awkward.

Feeling awkward? For who?

Jean still pretty much present on most popular x-men characters lists.

Emma got to shine from nowhere and no one baited a eye on it. I don't know why would be hard to do the same for Jean now.

Basically BS and a bad excuse to keep Jean from the deserving spotlight

Hm.

I guess what people are saying is:
You can do that, but you're not going be taken seriously.

And the reason why they're saying that is that they don't want every thread that even remotely relates to Jean to descend into idle whinging about her current portrayal.
It may not be "early days" for you, but it is for most.

why not taken seriously?

So people only accept seriously if i criticize from some random "y" point.

[PrezValentine]

Feeling awkward? For who?

For people.

Jean still pretty much present on most popular x-men characters lists.

Yes, character popularity lists are relevant when they come from sites where people clearly don't read comics or social networks where there isn't an homogenous audience.

Emma got to shine from nowhere and no one baited a eye on it. I don't know why would be hard to do the same for Jean now.

Emma had Generation X at a time where you slapped an X in anything and the book sold like water in the desert. Gen X ended in 2001, the same year Morrison's X-Men started. Wasn't quite the jump. I understand being stubborn to the point of sounding obsessive, but analysis has to be made in context too. We don't live in those happy times, gotta play the most recent hits.

Basically BS and a bad excuse to keep Jean from the deserving spotlight

"Deserving" is very subjective. You and a bunch think it is deserved, other fans disagree. Hickman probably doesn't care about your or my feelings, so this is irrelevant. If he tailored the story to fit Jean's character or skillset, you wouldn't complain as much as you complain for him doing the same for the characters on the spotlight currently.

[spirit2011]

For people.

what people? I can only think people who doesn't like the character

Yes, character popularity lists are relevant when they come from sites where people clearly don't read comics or social networks where there isn't an homogenous audience.

If lists on a site called comic book resources isn't about peopple reading comics, then it is just hard.
Anyway being popular between non comic readers isn't a bad thing, they can become a new reader tomorrow for all we know. Comics need to expand their readership

Emma had Generation X at a time where you slapped an X in anything and the book sold like water in the desert. Gen X ended in 2001, the same year Morrison's X-Men started. Wasn't quite the jump. I understand being stubborn to the point of sounding obsessive, but analysis has to be made in context too. We don't live in those happy times, gotta play the most recent hits.

majority of people didn't read gen X when it was published and the focus of the series were the students.
it was really a big jump, but there is always a excuse when it is a character I like right?
Like ignore that gen x was a third tier book

most recents hits like x-men red? oh no, it is awkward

"Deserving" is very subjective. You and a bunch think it is deserved, other fans disagree. Hickman probably doesn't care about your or my feelings, so this is irrelevant. If he tailored the story to fit Jean's character or skillset, you wouldn't complain as much as you complain for him doing the same for the characters on the spotlight currently.

Some fans will always disagree, doesn't mean it is true in any way.

I JUST want Jean being written well

[thechronic92]

Emma had Generation X at a time where you slapped an X in anything and the book sold like water in the desert. Gen X ended in 2001, the same year Morrison's X-Men started. Wasn't quite the jump.

Going from gen x to leading the X-Men over characters like Storm, Rogue, Wolverine, Beast is quite the jump

[tuck frump]

Going from gen x to leading the X-Men over characters like Storm, Rogue, Wolverine, Beast is quite the jump

She was never team leader only school headmistress.

[butterflykyss]

why are Jean fans being so pessimistic. I can think of a ton of other characters, including my fave, who hasnt been central to these stories and u dont see fans of these characters making a fuss.

[Striderblack01]

why not taken seriously?

So people only accept seriously if i criticize from some random "y" point.

Not random - reasonable.

You make reasonable, substantive criticisms in the appropriate threads.
That's generally how people take you seriously.

So, for your instance, if my position(s) were -

"Jean's showings in HOX/POX/DOX have been weak or OOC."
"Hickman isn't doing Jean justice or writing her correctly."
Or "The X-Men need to have a Jean-centered era."

Then I would post:

• In the threads dedicated to those specific issues (once they've been released), in a review style post.
• In the Jean Appreciation thread as part of general convo.
• Or make my own thread - especially if I felt the topic is meaningful and worthy of discussion on it's own.

That way, you don't come across as 'whiny' and avoid derailing threads about books that haven't been released yet.

[spirit2011]

Not random - reasonable.

You make reasonable, substantive criticisms in the appropriate threads.
That's generally how people take you seriously.

So, for your instance, if my position(s) were -

"Jean's showings in HOX/POX/DOX have been weak or OOC."
"Hickman isn't doing Jean justice or writing her correctly."
Or "The X-Men need to have a Jean-centered era."

Then I would post:

• In the threads dedicated to those specific issues (once they've been released), in a review style post.
• In the Jean Appreciation thread as part of general convo.
• Or make my own thread - especially if I felt the topic is meaningful and worthy of discussion on it's own.

That way, you don't come across as 'whiny' and avoid derailing threads about books that haven't been released yet.

Look I found that people doesn't like to see criticism from jean's fans. but it happens, I don't even think it comes majority of times from the fans.

[Kisinith]

Feeling awkward? For who?

Jean still pretty much present on most popular x-men characters lists.
Emma got to shine from nowhere and no one baited a eye on it. I don't know why would be hard to do the same for Jean now.
Basically BS and a bad excuse to keep Jean from the deserving spotlight

why not taken seriously?
So people only accept seriously if i criticize from some random "y" point.

People aren't going to take complaints seriously right now because they're absurdly premature and almost everyone recognizes that.

Hickman came on board with a story he wants to tell and with a stated goal of righting the X-Men as a franchise. Something, anecdotally at least, the vast majority of its fans seem to agree was necessary. Next HoX/PoX were, by Hickman's own admission, not X-Men stories. They are stories about mutants as a whole, the creation of a mutant state and mutant culture, not the X-Men and certainly not about individual X-Men. The new beginning of the X-Men franchise wasn't HoX#1, it was X-Men #1.

[PrezValentine]

what people? I can only think people who doesn't like the character

Or people who aren't interested or who just feel the character can't sustain the franchise. Hell if I know. The response "For people" was just for giggles, anyway.

If lists on a site called comic book resources isn't about peopple reading comics, then it is just hard.
Anyway being popular between non comic readers isn't a bad thing, they can become a new reader tomorrow for all we know. Comics need to expand their readership

CBR is literally the worst example you could pick, holy shit.

majority of people didn't read gen X when it was published and the focus of the series were the students.
it was really a big jump, but there is always a excuse when it is a character I like right?
Like ignore that gen x was a third tier book

X-Men: Red was pretty much a third tier book. Nothing that happened in it actually affected the franchise as a whole, except the existence of Searebro.

most recents hits like x-men red? oh no, it is awkward

Third tier book, if we use your logic.

Some fans will always disagree, doesn't mean it is true in any way.

I JUST want Jean being written well

Yeah, I'm gonna believe that when you already showed that you think such a thing as unbiased writing exists or your complaints about the story being tailored to favor Hickman's favorites. Sure thing, kitten. That's besides the point, anyway. For all I and some thought, except for that panel with her death, she was written well enough. Then again, I'm not the greatest Jean fan around. It's not like Cyclops or other characters I like never had less than flattering writing from Hickman. Didn't affect my enjoyment of the story he was telling or my opinion of his grasp on the character.

[CGAR]

Oh wow we're still on the Jean vs Emma train.

How about be like the characters in the panel and have a beer together.

Some of you are relentless.

[PrezValentine]

Oh wow we're still on the Jean vs Emma train.

How about be like the characters in the panel and have a beer together.

Some of you are relentless.

At least it's kinda on-topic. The issue already made the usual people angry for existing on a conceptual level, it will continue to do so when both characters aren't written at each other's throat or Jean owning Emma every five balloons.

Also, that beer ended either in swinging, group sex or a four-way Smash Bros game, which I doubt would be more peaceful than this, if the posters involved participated. I can already hear the "you only main Megaman because Capcom has been pushing him, instead of using Pikachu, who's a better character than him in every way".

[PsychoEFrost]

Look I found that people doesn't like to see criticism from jean's fans. but it happens, I don't even think it comes majority of times from the fans.

BULL CRAP.

People don't mind critique from anyone's fans, it's how they bring it across. Derailing every single thread that even vaguely mentions Jean to talk about conspiracies about how Hickman hates Jean and will never allow to be written well is where people draw the line.

[tuck frump]

At least it's kinda on-topic. The issue already made the usual people angry for existing on a conceptual level, it will continue to do so when both characters aren't written at each other's throat or Jean owning Emma every five balloons.

Also, that beer ended either in swinging, group sex or a four-way Smash Bros game, which I doubt would be more peaceful than this, if the posters involved participated. I can already hear the "you only main Megaman because Capcom has been pushing him, instead of using Pikachu, who's a better character than him in every way".

The only game Emma plays is strip poker.