Rumbler's League Spring 2015 - Discussion Thread

[Charlotte DeBel]

Well, sorry for disappearing during this last week, but my computer gave me quite the fright once again.

Apologies for the incovenience and particularly apologies to my partner-in-crime.

I did what I could, and at least managed to squeeze a stalemate out of this.

[Duskman]

Repeat anything that ANYONE has done?

Well, pretty sure no one else has used them either.

[Darth Drizzle]

I should have just voted Friday as planned, but the matches were pretty close and people were giving good responses so I didnt want to vote early and I ended up missing out with my bad weekend phone/tablet connection. Sorry to all affected.

2nd place is a strong finish, but next League I'll take a page from Val Venus and "Come out on Top!" Now hit my music.......

[Siriel]

For next League we need to a specific rule for the thing that Dalak was doing about preparing schematics in advance and whatnot.

That's pretty clearly prep and that shouldn't have to be debated in-match.

Also if everything else is going to be capped for the League, transmutable technology should be as well.

[Dalak]

For next League we need to a specific rule for the thing that Dalak was doing about preparing schematics in advance and whatnot.

That's pretty clearly prep and that shouldn't have to be debated in-match.

Also if everything else is going to be capped for the League, transmutable technology should be as well.

If there can be no planning then we might as well just get rid of all books that don't outright give you power, the Internet Data, and things like that. D&D-style wizards need that to memorize spells, and people with intelligence need it or else their smarts are pretty worthless. I mean what's the point of getting a thinker if he's not allowed to think about anything until the match starts?

As for a cap on transmutable technology, what do you mean?

[Siriel]

As for a cap on transmutable technology, what do you mean?

If speed is capped at lightspeed, (original) strength at Superman, etc, then it makes little sense to allow say Reed Richards to transmute things into his cosmic level stuff.

[Tami]

You are talking about reality warping, which is limited. Transmutation is not exactly the same as reality warping.

You don't need to limit it if you can make a good argument over how long it takes to do it. If you can speed blitz someone before they finish the Transmutation, then it's game over.

All things like that are in-game acts, not prep, so complexity, time and speed are the issues.

[Tami]

There are a lot of cosmic level powers and power sources in the Wiki lists. If you have the power to transmute a 7 point item into a 10 point item and can justify, prove and support the process of doing so, it's fair.

[Siriel]

You are talking about reality warping, which is limited. Transmutation is not exactly the same as reality warping.

You don't need to limit it if you can make a good argument over how long it takes to do it. If you can speed blitz someone before they finish the Transmutation, then it's game over.

All things like that are in-game acts, not prep, so complexity, time and speed are the issues.

Evidently not, considering you voted against us in a match centered around this exact argument, in which Reed transmuted around eleventy-billion things.

[Siriel]

There are a lot of cosmic level powers and power sources in the Wiki lists. If you have the power to transmute a 7 point item into a 10 point item and can justify, prove and support the process of doing so, it's fair.

Reed Richards and other such people have done things that go above 10-points, and if granted transmutation powers can recreate them.

[Dalak]

If speed is capped at lightspeed, (original) strength at Superman, etc, then it makes little sense to allow say Reed Richards to transmute things into his cosmic level stuff.

There is a 10 pt device on the list right now that can power drain the Silver Surfer & Dr Strange, and who's shields stop Classic Strange from doing anything. After draining them, Namor and the Hulk it was Jade-Jaws staying mad that overloaded it.

About the only reason to get Reed is his smarts, since Dr. Doom comes with his armor, magic use, and Doom's Will on top of that. With the Anti-Galactus gear I expected someone to point out it has only one feat and that's one-punching a robot that while capable of defeating teams of high-end super heroes was specifically not resisting Reed at the time. With his Quantum Destabilizer the best argument is based on where he's using it and if he has some item making him more likely to do it - otherwise he's not going to murder innocents. The Ult-Nullifier kills the user too which is why I almost always had it put on Herbots. If he hadn't been much smarter than normal I wouldn't have confidently had him make the UN anyway, as any mistake would end the universe and he wouldn't normally risk that.

[Duskman]

If there can be no planning then we might as well just get rid of all books that don't outright give you power, the Internet Data, and things like that. D&D-style wizards need that to memorize spells, and people with intelligence need it or else their smarts are pretty worthless. I mean what's the point of getting a thinker if he's not allowed to think about anything until the match starts?

As for a cap on transmutable technology, what do you mean?

I thought the books, the data, training, and other such knowledge meant the character had effectively already downloaded/studied the knowledge before the matches began?

Otherwise, I agree, if you give the character a powerful spellbook, and they can't even start reading it until after they've been timestop-speedblitz-curbstomped into the next dimension, what's even the point of having the item?

[Dalak]

I thought the books, the data, training, and other such knowledge meant the character had effectively already downloaded/studied the knowledge before the matches began?

Otherwise, I agree, if you give the character a powerful spellbook, and they can't even start reading it until after they've been timestop-speedblitz-curbstomped into the next dimension, what's even the point of having the item?

Well like I said, D&D Wizards might know the spells in their spellbooks but they can only use the ones they've specifically chosen to memorize that day. This would keep folks like Vaarsuvius, Xykon, Raistlin, Elminster and others from being able to use spells from the Darkhold or Book of Spells. It would keep someone from examining the Net data to find the weakness of X, the chemical composition of Y, or the Z rated porno to telepathically beam into the enemy's head to mindscrew them until after the match has started. It would even stop strategy minded characters like Captain America from aiding the teamwork of his allies except by shouting out orders mid-match. I thought the point of the league was these characters are given items and forced to work together and come up with the Strategies we write to do so as opposed to appearing and acting as we write with no rhyme or reason to it.

Training is different however, because it's specifically being trained as opposed to being handed a book or having a file uploaded to a computer.

[Dalak]

Evidently not, considering you voted against us in a match centered around this exact argument, in which Reed transmuted around eleventy-billion things.

To Nitpick: He started with 1 - Megas. It was a very involved transmutation, but it was only one and once that was done Shiki'd be several yards away from his target and having to chop through a shield before he could even get close to them despite there being people planning to defend against sneak attacks and that sort of thing and the disparity in speeds - Light speed is over Mach 880,000 after all. That juice Shiki took isn't THAT good.

That's only if you accept the characters being the ones coming up with the plans though. It's the reason why we're having this debate about whether the characters are actually planning the strategies or not after all.

[Siriel]

once that was done

It wouldn't be. That's the entire point. Tami says that a counter to transmuting tech would be speedblitz, which is a very strange thing to say when she voted for the transmuter against the speedblitz not three days ago.

I'm not rehashing our argument (eleventy-billion was obviously a silly exaggeration); I'm pointing out that Tami's vote and her statement do not match.