Karen Starr Power Girl Appreciation 2021

[Artemisfanboy]

Very disheartening to hear this in a recent Jimmy Palmiotti and Amanda Conner interview...fast forward to 15:53

Amanda and Jimmy state the wanted to go back to do more Power Girl, but DC Comics had no interest.

I think we are all screwed if we are hoping for anything new, such as a PG solo series or the character being featured in a new book.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but here's hoping those rumors about AT&T wanting to sell are real.

Sucks being a Power Girl fan right now!!!

I'd like to think you're overreacting and either DC just doesn't have room for what they'd consider a niche title like her (sadly realistic), and or she's reserved for the upcoming JSA book. Though the fact they keep playing coy about said JSA book is really beginning to frustrate me. And if she isn't part of the team when we get the book I will be quite mad. She was part of the team in Doomsday Clock so I expect her in the relaunch.

Though, speaking of this, what would you think if they offered Palmiotti and Conner JSA if they want to write Power Girl? They're interested in and care about at least one of the characters and we still need something.

[achilles]

I'd like to think you're overreacting and either DC just doesn't have room for what they'd consider a niche title like her (sadly realistic), and or she's reserved for the upcoming JSA book. Though the fact they keep playing coy about said JSA book is really beginning to frustrate me. And if she isn't part of the team when we get the book I will be quite mad. She was part of the team in Doomsday Clock so I expect her in the relaunch.

Though, speaking of this, what would you think if they offered Palmiotti and Conner JSA if they want to write Power Girl? They're interested in and care about at least one of the characters and we still need something.

I know what I'd say. No. They had a run on Power Girl, and a far as I'm concerned, it's over and done with and it's time for someone who hasn't written PG or the JSA yet to have a go. I don't want their take on JSA; they demand a different sensibility IMO, one more like, well, the TV show Stargirl. The jokes get old, Connor can't manage longer than about 12 issues as an artist, and neither of them blow me away as writers.

But again, hopefully that was just DC not being interested in whatever THEIR pitch for a PG series was, rather than lack of interest in the character herself. And hopefully, DC, WB, and ATT have at least of their enthusiasm for the character.

[achilles]

Sigh. 11 more series announced by DC, some of them rather stretches IMO, and still no JSA or Power Girl title. And it's not because she or they are too obscure, obviously, but because DC and WB either hate the characters or simply don't care at all about them, and have no faith in them despite having faith in entirely new characters. IS DC actively TRYING to make me hate them? Most of my other favs also are either MIA or barely there.

Since these were announced as though they were DC's major effort this year....it doesn't look like they even have any plans at all this year to relaunch JSA even, never mind a Power Girl title of any kind. Which likely means they have no plans at all for doing so.

[SuperX]

Sigh. 11 more series announced by DC, some of them rather stretches IMO, and still no JSA or Power Girl title. And it's not because she or they are too obscure, obviously, but because DC and WB either hate the characters or simply don't care at all about them, and have no faith in them despite having faith in entirely new characters. IS DC actively TRYING to make me hate them? Most of my other favs also are either MIA or barely there.

Since these were announced as though they were DC's major effort this year....it doesn't look like they even have any plans at all this year to relaunch JSA even, never mind a Power Girl title of any kind. Which likely means they have no plans at all for doing so.

Checking boxes is more important than serving the "actual" customer anymore and using popular or should I say profitable characters or teams

[achilles]

Checking boxes is more important than serving the "actual" customer anymore and using popular or should I say profitable characters or teams

They can check all the boxes they want so long as they give me what I want, which they refuse to do. I want that JSA title. And at least a few PG minis, if not a solo. Given what they've okayed, I don't see why that should be a problem. I want a few other title, like REBEL, Blue and Gold, Captain Atom, Dr. Fate (Kent only...they can give the other one however many titles they want, I just want Kent to have one), Fire and Ice, and perhaps one or two others. None of them AFAIK are in the works.

The relentless pandering however seems to be their only focus.

[Robanker]

Sigh. 11 more series announced by DC, some of them rather stretches IMO, and still no JSA or Power Girl title. And it's not because she or they are too obscure, obviously, but because DC and WB either hate the characters or simply don't care at all about them, and have no faith in them despite having faith in entirely new characters. IS DC actively TRYING to make me hate them? Most of my other favs also are either MIA or barely there.

Since these were announced as though they were DC's major effort this year....it doesn't look like they even have any plans at all this year to relaunch JSA even, never mind a Power Girl title of any kind. Which likely means they have no plans at all for doing so.

I have zero expectations for a PG book before JSA and even then it'd be a digital first. I'm bummed to be sure, but if Aquaman and Green Arrow are missing a book right now, I'm not surprised the JSA are.

Did some new books get announced today? I'm still at work and have yet to see any news..

Checking boxes is more important than serving the "actual" customer anymore and using popular or should I say profitable characters or teams

This sounds like one of those straw man arguments Gators push. Bro. PG has never proven herself profitable and she's one of my absolute favorite characters. Same with the JSA. Popular within a niche? Arguably, but that's never translated to a consistent sales pattern.

I love PG. I love the JSA. She's easily top 5 for me and the JSA is my favorite team. I would love to see them in some books every month but let's not lie and adopt the argument of an internet harassment campaign.

Moreover are we really going to pretend pandering is new to comics? What did you think they were doing from 1938 until the 2000s and 2010s? They were just pandering to straight men by making every dude some guy they wanted to be and every woman in thongs with huge boobs. They've always been pandering. Particularly to straight white guys. lol

[SuperX]

Pandering to where the $ is the #1 pursuit of a company.

Guess we shall see

[Robanker]

Pandering to where the $ is the #1 pursuit of a company.

Guess we shall see

Except that the continued trend even before inclusion became a focus was that the dollars are moving to other forms of entertainment. Moreover, "going where the money is" as an argument actually hurts PG and JSA since they don't make enough money to justify focus. Probably don't push that.

So a company pandering to one demographic for 70+ years until they're in dire straits and then trying to diversify their audience when the one they cultivated is dwindling and unable to support their growth is bad pandering.

A company publishing what that same shrinking consumer base wants until they go out of business is good pandering.

The market needs more people in it and continuing to blindly pander to straight white dudes isn't working, but of course a healthy company isn't really the concern of the fan.

This does reek of that ComicsGate nonsense, but I'm starting to expect that of a lot of posters here.

[SuperX]

Except that the continued trend even before inclusion became a focus was that the dollars are moving to other forms of entertainment. Moreover, "going where the money is" as an argument actually hurts PG and JSA since they don't make money. Probably don't push that.

So a company pandering to one demographic for 70+ years until they're in dire straits and then trying to diversify their audience when the one they cultivated is dwindling and unable to support their growth is bad pandering.

A company publishing what that same shrinking consumer base wants until they go out of business is good pandering.

The market needs more people in it and continuing to blindly pander to straight white dudes isn't working, but of course a healthy company isn't really the concern of the fan.

This does reek of that ComicsGate nonsense, but I'm starting to expect that of a lot of posters here.

You need help, you attack anyone who has a opinion thst doesn't line up with your thinking,cpuld you stop talking **** and just be a good fan?

[Robanker]

You need help, you attack anyone who has a opinion thst doesn't line up with your thinking,cpuld you stop talking **** and just be a good fan?

Classy suggesting someone needs help because they find other people's opinions distasteful. I suppose being a "good fan" constitutes agreeing with people or being silent? Yeah, no thanks. I'll continue to voice my opinions as you are free to do so as well. Moreover, if you feel I've in any way violated the rules of the board, feel free to report my posts.

More importantly, "pandering" is not in any way the thing holding Karen back. If it was, they'd have had a Power Girl solo series for Tanya. They don't. Power Girl is niche. It's something we as her fans need to accept. It doesn't make her any less wonderful a character, but it's a realistic view of her publishing history. She's a team book character, and JSA is usually a modest sales success if it even is one. Currently, DC doesn't appear invested in the JSA (which SUCKS) but there's more to the business than appealing to a small subset of fans.

This is the life of loving the B/C listers. We'll be lucky for a digital mini and a recurring role in a modern day series. Would I take a PG solo? Sure, I'd love it. I'd get both covers monthly to support it like I did Hawkman, but like Hawkman it won't run long.

Hawkman did everything you asked for and it lasted 29 issues which Venditti admitted it had been put up for cancellation three times. Under normal circumstances it dies at 15 issues. PG would be about the same, with 20+ being REALLY lucky. Minis are all we should hope for right now unless you want to be disappointed. I don't know what you guys are expecting.

[achilles]

I have zero expectations for a PG book before JSA and even then it'd be a digital first. I'm bummed to be sure, but if Aquaman and Green Arrow are missing a book right now, I'm not surprised the JSA are.

Did some new books get announced today? I'm still at work and have yet to see any news..



This sounds like one of those straw man arguments Gators push. Bro. PG has never proven herself profitable and she's one of my absolute favorite characters. Same with the JSA. Popular within a niche? Arguably, but that's never translated to a consistent sales pattern.

I love PG. I love the JSA. She's easily top 5 for me and the JSA is my favorite team. I would love to see them in some books every month but let's not lie and adopt the argument of an internet harassment campaign.

Moreover are we really going to pretend pandering is new to comics? What did you think they were doing from 1938 until the 2000s and 2010s? They were just pandering to straight men by making every dude some guy they wanted to be and every woman in thongs with huge boobs. They've always been pandering. Particularly to straight white guys. lol

Well, to be fair, PG DID in fact prove herself profitable once, when a bust of her or perhaps a statue, proved DC's top seller in merch one month. Her problem there is more that DC has never given her a real chance; never set her up for success with a well received solo title that gave her a unique direction in DC, and had sufficiently big time creators to attract the crowd that goes for that. There sole push of her happened for only a couple of years, while they give other characters chance after chance.

[achilles]

Except that the continued trend even before inclusion became a focus was that the dollars are moving to other forms of entertainment. Moreover, "going where the money is" as an argument actually hurts PG and JSA since they don't make enough money to justify focus. Probably don't push that.

So a company pandering to one demographic for 70+ years until they're in dire straits and then trying to diversify their audience when the one they cultivated is dwindling and unable to support their growth is bad pandering.

A company publishing what that same shrinking consumer base wants until they go out of business is good pandering.

The market needs more people in it and continuing to blindly pander to straight white dudes isn't working, but of course a healthy company isn't really the concern of the fan.

This does reek of that ComicsGate nonsense, but I'm starting to expect that of a lot of posters here.

You do recall there was a time when JSA sold very well indeed? And that yeah, Power Girl started out in her mini with Johns at 90,000? To be sure, she then plummeted, but that was a result of Johns and then Jimmy and Amanda not being able to sustain interest with rather lackluster efforts.

[Robanker]

You do recall there was a time when JSA sold very well indeed? And that yeah, Power Girl started out in her mini with Johns at 90,000? To be sure, she then plummeted, but that was a result of Johns and then Jimmy and Amanda not being able to sustain interest with rather lackluster efforts.

All first issues do well. It's about sales month to month and PG just doesn't track there in an exceptional manner. She also doesn't have adaption potential over a lot of other IP. I love the character but if we're talking about first issues to try and prove a character is popular then we're desperate.

Yes, I remember the Johns run. It did well for a moment but otherwise the JSA always is a modest success at best. If we're talking just the Johns run, you're right and on reflection I should have added that caveat. Both IP are fan darlings but they don't translate as well to more profitable ventures as other characters that sell as well or better.

The JSA are getting a push now between Stargirl, the animated movie and Black Adam so maybe that will change. I'd love for it to.

You mention her mini. Did you forget it also had one of the best covers Adam Hughes ever drew boosting it's sales exponentially?

[achilles]

All first issues do well. It's about sales month to month and PG just doesn't track there in an exceptional manner. She also doesn't have adaption potential over a lot of other IP. I love the character but if we're talking about first issues to try and prove a character is popular then we're desperate.

Yes, I remember the Johns run. It did well for a moment but otherwise the JSA always is a modest success at best. If we're talking just the Johns run, you're right and on reflection I should have added that caveat. Both IP are fan darlings but they don't translate as well to more profitable ventures as other characters that sell as well or better.

The JSA are getting a push now between Stargirl, the animated movie and Black Adam so maybe that will change. I'd love for it to.

You mention her mini. Did you forget it also had one of the best covers Adam Hughes ever drew boosting it's sales exponentially?

90,000 was pretty big at the time. For a character with little to no potential or fan base, one who has never done anything, it was pretty spectacular. Therefore, she must not be those things. Most of those minis have covers or alt covers by big names, and many of them are pretty good, so AH! doing a nice cover for her wasn't unusual. And she still sold unusually well.

[Robanker]

90,000 was pretty big at the time. For a character with little to no potential or fan base, one who has never done anything, it was pretty spectacular. Therefore, she must not be those things. Most of those minis have covers or alt covers by big names, and many of them are pretty good, so AH! doing a nice cover for her wasn't unusual. And she still sold unusually well.

That doesn't change that her solo series did not do particularly well. Look, I'm not saying she can't sell at all, but that she's not at the front of the line for characters who should get books right now. I also think you're discounting how much people loved that Hughes cover. :P

The JSA mini #2-4 sold about 60k which was good at the time, but her solo book? 32k by issue #2 which also had a Hughes variant (and variants were rare back then). When the new team took over it was at 20k and kept losing readers. This was not a good number even then and was running very close to cancellation.

Do I want her to get one? Yes, absolutely. I just don't think it's realistic to think she will, but you're hyper focused on that one period she did well. I loved that time in comics, but her solo series, New 52 WF which she co-lead and Earth-2 once she joined it at did not do great. It's been diminishing returns since then which tells DC the iron isn't hot enough to strike right now for PG.

Yeah, those last two books weren't good, but PG is a child commodity for them currently. Wait for a JSA book and then maybe she'll get some momentum up get a solo project. With the right team and pitch, I think PG can crush it and definitely climb up to Nightwing level sales and hopefully popularity, but she's not there yet.