"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[Cloudman]

just curious, but where is or who are the 1% remaining?

The breakdown is (roughly):

79.2% black
8.9% white
8.9% coloured
2.5% Asian
0.5% other/unspecified

[Lady Warp Spasm]

And I'm not saying they weren't better before the movie. They were, I was there, buying the DnA books. What I'm saying is that they didn't get the right push. A Winter Soldier comic with him doing superhero spy thriller stuff after the movie would be genius. If instead of Captain Falcon we had a Sam Wilson book with more of an indie/adult flair like Hawkeye we could have three cult books instead of one. What I mean is that Marvel found a way to make HAWKEYE interesting in Matt Fraction. Why not ask for pitches of a FALCON book since Anthony Mackie single handedly (obviously with the Russo Bros help) made the character more popular than ever? Why Falcon NEEDS Captain America to be popular? I blame on lazy writing more than the audience. If you give Falcon the Hawkeye treatment, you can bet that it if wouldn't sell more than Captain Falcon, it would be more respected and maybe even become material to a Falcon solo film. Marvel should be aiming to diversify their IPS, not only diversify the characters using their IPs names. Replacing a character for other is the new "death of whatever hero" gimmick, and at least for me, it's already old.

Nicely said and I agree on all counts.

I really like Sam and would have supported a Falcon book. I am not a fan of Remender or the shoe-horning of Falcon as Cap, which is why I am not reading it. I have no idea wth Marvel is doing with Winter Soldier but that is all due to the absolute mess that was Original Sin anyway. And even in the whole Battleworld scenario, i Have no interest with this 3 issue Red Skull Winter Soldier thing.

[Kieran_Frost]

Go look it up yourself. I shouldn't have to do that for you.

I just find it odd you don't consider a group who is 50% of a country, regardless of circumstance, a minority... BUT a group that is near 80% of a country, when we consider circumstance, a minority. Seems... inconsistent

[Reviresco]

And when did I say that you quoted meanings of Minority groups not minorities which are two different things

No, those quoted definitions were for the word "minority." Minority doesn't have one single definition (percentage of a group). Read the red parts I highlighted for you. And minority is often used for minority group, they don't have different meanings, WHEN USED IN THE CONTEXT OF DIVERSITY. And that's exactly the context of the post I responded to, that claimed female Thor didn't represent anyone.

Again, by your definition, Asians aren't minorities. Blacks aren't minorities in Africa. Men are a minority. Some neighborhoods in the US whites are a minority. All of which is untrue, in a discussion about diversity and oppression.

[Reviresco]

South Africa is 80% black, 9% white. In order to say black South Africans are a minority, you would have to change the entire meaning of the word. If you want to argue about oppression go ahead, but don't change the meaning of words and then criticise others for not following your new definition.

No one is changing any definitions. This is not a 'new' defintion. I provided a long list of clear definitions from various dictionaries, that specifically state the word doesn't have to have anything to do with physical numbers. Read the red parts. One of them even mentions black South Africans during Apartheid are considered a minority.

Again, it's a matter of CONTEX. When talking about diversity, this is actually what the word minority means.

[Da Boat]

I think that's part of it as well. I remember when I first got on here, there was a troll (I think he's been banned) that would hit up any thread pertaining to Kamala Khan and use the same argument every time, that she's a lesser character because she's a legacy and that it would have been better to use another existing heroine instead. And the two examples he kept using were Lady Sif and Valkyrie. "Why would they make this rip off affirmative action heroine when they have existing heroines like Lady Sif and Valykrie!?!"

Then one day someone pointed out that both characters had been given books recently (Fearless Defenders and Journey Into Mystery), and that they'd crashed and burned in under a year. And that's not just true for women or minorities but properties in general that aren't seen as connected to a popular brand.

Well first Sif and Val are legacy characters as much as she-panther. Val is sort of she-Thor.

Secondly, it's not cause Sif and Val's books did not sell that ever book with these characters won't sell. Hell from afar, Fearless Defenders seemed to be a bunch of monkey crap. I would have bought a Valkyrie book but not this. It doesn't mean that every female characters that are not directly replacing the main character won't sell either.

Hell Marvel has never really tried to bring in a new female character and give her a title other than Jessica Jones. They've never given one to Storm or Sue or Kitty Pryde or Jean Grey. Maybe these would sell like gangbusters.

[Mark]

On the other hand if you are going for diversity one way might be to introduce a team, see what member is the most popular and then spin that member off. That's been done before. I still find it surprising that the company that savaged Scarlet Witch and turned Tigra into a joke has suddenly discovered female readers and diversity. For myself I've just about dried up caring for the teams of marvel Avengers. Uncanny Avengers, Dark Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Secret Avengers and here we have yet another Avengers team. I don't think this one will be any different from any of the others. Heck just make everyone on the planet an Avenger and get it over with.

[ijacksparrow]

Well first Sif and Val are legacy characters as much as she-panther. Val is sort of she-Thor.

Secondly, it's not cause Sif and Val's books did not sell that ever book with these characters won't sell. Hell from afar, Fearless Defenders seemed to be a bunch of monkey crap. I would have bought a Valkyrie book but not this. It doesn't mean that every female characters that are not directly replacing the main character won't sell either.

Hell Marvel has never really tried to bring in a new female character and give her a title other than Jessica Jones. They've never given one to Storm or Sue or Kitty Pryde or Jean Grey. Maybe these would sell like gangbusters.

The notion that Sif and Valkyrie are "legacy characters" from Thor is absurd and completely wrong in my opinion. They are part of the same mythology, they could be part of the same family of books, but they aren't legacy characters for Thor by any stretch. And neither is Angela or Loki, even if they are Thor's brothers, because they aren't in line to become assume Thor's place as a superhero at his absence.

[Holt]

I'm willing to bet that the name Kamala Khan is more popular than "Ms. Marvel".

Not even remotely, or at least it would not have been. Though Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel aren't very well known outside comics, there is still a reason that it drew so much attention. The idea of taking a name that used to belong to a blonde white woman and giving it to a Pakistani Muslim teen was considered a huge deal and much of the press coverage was focused on that which is part of the reason why the character has been a success. A lot of eyeballs were on her from the start.

Whereas, to go back to the Sif and Valkyrie example, there have been other Muslim superheroines before, and they got none of that. Why do you think we saw news stories about Kamala Khan or Simon Baz over at DC but not say, Faiza Hussain or Dust? Because nobody really cared because there was nothing much in the way of a hook.

[cyberhubbs]

Well first Sif and Val are legacy characters as much as she-panther. Val is sort of she-Thor.

Secondly, it's not cause Sif and Val's books did not sell that ever book with these characters won't sell. Hell from afar, Fearless Defenders seemed to be a bunch of monkey crap. I would have bought a Valkyrie book but not this. It doesn't mean that every female characters that are not directly replacing the main character won't sell either.

Hell Marvel has never really tried to bring in a new female character and give her a title other than Jessica Jones. They've never given one to Storm or Sue or Kitty Pryde or Jean Grey. Maybe these would sell like gangbusters.

Doesn't Storm currently have an ongoing?

[ijacksparrow]

Not even remotely, or at least it would not have been. Though Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel aren't very well known outside comics, there is still a reason that it drew so much attention. The idea of taking a name that used to belong to a blonde white woman and giving it to a Pakistani Muslim teen was considered a huge deal and much of the press coverage was focused on that which is part of the reason why the character has been a success. A lot of eyeballs were on her from the start.

Whereas, to go back to the Sif and Valkyrie example, there have been other Muslim superheroines before, and they got none of that. Why do you think we saw news stories about Kamala Khan or Simon Baz over at DC but not say, Faiza Hussain or Dust? Because nobody really cared because there was nothing much in the way of a hook.

I believe Wilson's Ms. Marvel quality is intrinsically related with how good and a new voice Wilson is to the Marvel Universe. Just like BKV's Runaways back then. What is funny is that both Miles Morales and Sam Alexander were created by two writers that we can't call it as "fresh and new talent" in the Marvel Universe. Silk and Spider-Gwen found their audiences because people demanded and people demanded because those are fresh family books for Spider-Man. The problem with the "diversity through legacy" is two fold: it's forced because there's not an actual demand for that to happen and those creating these stories aren't fresh and new voices in the Marvel Universe anymore. I think I've found out why so many people these characters feel like gimmicks, it's because the guys creating them actually can't fully understand what these characters are about.

[Myetche]

Doesn't Storm currently have an ongoing?

Yeah, and it's tanking badly.

[Holt]

I believe Wilson's Ms. Marvel quality is intrinsically related with how good and a new voice Wilson is to the Marvel Universe.

And there's a lot of quality books that go nowhere because there's no buzz.

[cyberhubbs]

Yeah, and it's tanking badly.

That's a shame. They're not always gonna be successes, I guess.

[Gordonstar]

Yeah, and it's tanking badly.

Majority of Xmen solos do bad, or get axed later.

Wolverine seems to be the only one who don't get axed when Alive. I don't really follow Magentos sales though, does that good?