which Batfamily character(s) you don't like

[Godlike13]

When did Dick "almost" get offered a Lantern ring?

Old Superman issue I believe.

[L.H.]

When did Dick "almost" get offered a Lantern ring?

Action Comics #642

[lemonpeace]

I actually like Duke but i have never read about him... Seeing how he's disliked by many, i can tell he's really shity written. I like the costume and over all how he patrols the city at day and stuff, i was like finaly a decent black character but it looks like he bombed like the rest...

I wouldn't say Duke is written bad so much as he's written irregularly. he isn't used often or consistently, so his character doesn't gain much traction, which makes it easier for fans who were already going to write him off to write him off or trash him. what're the top reasons give by people who hate him? it's usually one of two things: either they are mad that they feel he's stepping in on some other characters page real estate ("there are already too many bat-characters, they should use x person" "he's stealing x person's thing") or they just say he's just boring (which usually denotes they don't know much about the character). both could be fixed by regular use that would showcase his distinction from other characters.

the biggest problem for Duke is that, like Damian, he suffers from certain fans being resistant to what his existence might mean for the status quo of the batfamily, but unlike Damian he doesn't have the luxury of the years of constant central exposure to develop and grow on the fanbase; even tho he [Damian] still get hate, that hate continues to lesson every year. which sucks because the Duke is swimming in interesting concepts unique to him that are never explored, both grounded (like his social angle from We are Robin) and fantastical (like his metahuman abilities and lineage).

it doesn't help that his suit (while I dislike it less now) is still not great for his character. you can't really expect a character to catch if they are dripping head to toe in someone else's visage. especially so when the iconography of the suit doesn't match the character, their abilities, or inform their personal ideology.

[Agent Z]

I think you're getting confused with being unhappy with bad direction and narrative choices with actual interest/disinterest in a character within that narrative.

Have you read what you wrote?

I guess this ties into why Jason Todd and Tim Drake annoy me, more what they represent and less what they are/were. Batman having a dead kid under his belt, and like 5 Robins really does break the character a bit. I think that's where a lot of what you guys are saying comes from, and I can see that.

Your reasons for why you dislike Tim and Jason don't change the fact that you don't like them. And for the record, you not liking them is fine but let's call it what it is.

"Kiddie stuff" is a heck of a way to dismiss a lot of wonderful work, by talented creators.

I'll thank you not to twist my words into something I did not say or imply.

Batman can be a character all ages enjoy, but the roots of the character are always going to be a children's character. That isn't an insult at all, that should be considered when approaching the character.

Again, I am not talking about what Batman should be, I am criticizing him based on what he is. I am not the one making him an abusive jackass and injecting real world stuff into his books, the writers and editors are. I'm just calling it like it is.

This is awful, yeah- it's also retconning their relationship to fit a grimmer narrative.

It is hardly the only time Bruce did something like this.

[lemonpeace]

This is awful, yeah- it's also retconning their relationship to fit a grimmer narrative.

mmmmm I don't think you're using that term correctly. this scene doesn't retroactively change their relationship, Bruce was currently decking dick in the face out of anger; i'm fairly certain that's just a plot development, not a retcon.

unless I'm misinterpreting the scene.

[SiegePerilous02]

It is hardly the only time Bruce did something like this.

He's done similar stuff after that, but I don't believe it occurred before that, especially pre-COIE. The nature of their relationship and their split was altered by that event.

There is that Silver Age comic where Batman slaps Robin that has become a meme, but I believe the issue that's from is an imaginary story where things are deliberately written as bad. Batman plots to ruin Superman, and ends up dead by the end of the story. So it's not the main versions.

mmmmm I don't think you're using that term correctly. this scene doesn't retroactively change their relationship, Bruce was currently decking dick in the face out of anger; i'm fairly certain that's just a plot development, not a retcon.

unless I'm misinterpreting the scene.

The scene itself isn't a retcon, but COIE caused some retcons to occur in their relationship. The nature of their partnership split was the big one, and Batman's mythos in general was darker. He didn't escape alterations completely, and it's a essentially a different set of characters than the ones who were in the Bronze Age.

[Flash Gordon]

He's done similar stuff after that, but I don't believe it occurred before that, especially pre-COIE. The nature of their relationship and their split was altered by that event.

There is that Silver Age comic where Batman slaps Robin that has become a meme, but I believe the issue that's from is an imaginary story where things are deliberately written as bad. Batman plots to ruin Superman, and ends up dead by the end of the story. So it's not the main versions.



The scene itself isn't a retcon, but COIE caused some retcons to occur in their relationship. The nature of their partnership split was the big one, and Batman's mythos in general was darker. He didn't escape alterations completely, and it's a essentially a different set of characters than the ones who were in the Bronze Age.

Exactly.

It's a gear shift from the Bronze Age, which is a retcon.

[Flash Gordon]

Your reasons for why you dislike Tim and Jason don't change the fact that you don't like them. And for the record, you not liking them is fine but let's call it what it is.

Lol, no I said what I meant. I don't have anything against a character named Jason Todd or Tim Drake. Jason has been interesting and compelling on the TITANS show, for instance.

I have a problem with specific NARRATIVE choices that those characters have come to represent. This obsession with fictional characters as if they're real people is weird, I'm talking about the actual flow Batman's narrative and having a dead Robin (be that Jason, Tim, Dick, or Bill from down the street) breaks the concept of Batman.

I'll thank you not to twist my words into something I did not say or imply.

"Kiddie stuff" is typically used as an insult, and I greatly dislike the tendency to dismiss wonderfully creative comic books just because there wasn't horrific death and violence in them- so I'm sorry if I misread you.

Again, I am not talking about what Batman should be, I am criticizing him based on what he is. I am not the one making him an abusive jackass and injecting real world stuff into his books, the writers and editors are. I'm just calling it like it is.


It is hardly the only time Bruce did something like this.

I think these moments, over the span of 80 years and 100s of titles- are being overstated.

[Frontier]

Exactly.

It's a gear shift from the Bronze Age, which is a retcon.

It's a shift that started with Year One/Dark Knight Returns, from what I recall.

[TheBatman]

I voted for everyone but Bruce, because of the common "The Batfamily > Bruce" sentiment, when if anything, its the complete opposite.

[Caivu]

I voted for everyone but Bruce, because of the common "The Batfamily > Bruce" sentiment, when if anything, its the complete opposite.

Aw, c'mon. Back up your position, at least!

[mathew101281]

I felt that the Batfamily started to get to big with Damian. That’s when they started cannibalizing each other’s roles. Before that you had a bat family but each character had their own role. Nightwing was the former Robin that had moved out and started to do his own thing. Tim Drake was the new Robin. Barbara Gordon had established a unique niche for herself as Oracle. And Step and Cass both had unique roles, that really synergized with each other.

[Caivu]

I felt that the Batfamily started to get to big with Damian. That’s when they started cannibalizing each other’s roles. Before that you had a bat family but each character had their own role.

Why do they need to have separate roles? Why is it a problem if they don't?

[Flash Gordon]

It's a shift that started with Year One/Dark Knight Returns, from what I recall.

Yeah totally, sorta triggered by CoIE.

I mean Year One/The Dark Knight Returns are some of the best comics ever made- they're 100% the gold standard, but I do think some creators took the wrong kind of inspiration from them.

[WonderNight]

Why do they need to have separate roles? Why is it a problem if they don't?

Because if they don't have there own roles then why are they there. What purpose do they serve the narrative?

It'll be like being on a sports team with no role, why are there. And if you had the same role as your teammates again why are you there.

If they all have the same roles then why have so many of them and not just one.