Spider-man 77 Preview

[The Black Death]

MJ was well written even when she was doing that IMO, she was kind and understanding and (nt sure about the era in this) but she kept at her job and provided while Peter was saving lives.



Honestly still wish they did it in a way Ben and Peter were working together and Ben went undercover into Beyond, we know that's not true via inner monologue.Problem is they did the whole Peter isn't up to par thing, that he's not enough.You do that you have to make it go back up, but w/ how Beyond is set it doesn't need to be at the cost of Ben at all.Peter just needs to be the main guy who takes out Beyond and not in an Ock way where Ben sacrifices himself or something, just Peter being the best at what he does, saving the day.

We all know that Peter is supposedly the best Spider-Man for being the original and all that, that fact is not taken away from him, but he has also made several mistakes, without exaggerating I can make a list of each of those mistakes. Ben is probably one of the few characters that is equal and even better than the original Spider-Man, but it doesn't matter, this will end well for Ben, Peter and his fans.

[Pav]

Personally, I'm not worried about Peter returning sooner rather than later. That's a given and I'm 44, I know how comics work. I fear they damage Ben too much in the process just to make the point that Peter is THE Spider-Man (We all know it).

Speaking of Latin American writers. have you read Borges Pav?

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on Borges, but I have read some of his short stories and I've really enjoyed everything I've read so far. My favorite is "Three Versions of Judas," about how it was actually Judas that was the Son of God rather than Jesus. Someday, in the right situation, it'd be fun to teach that alongside "The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ" by Philip Pullman.

-Pav, who enjoys stories that skew traditional religious beliefs...

[Sr. Bungle]

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on Borges, but I have read some of his short stories and I've really enjoyed everything I've read so far. My favorite is "Three Versions of Judas," about how it was actually Judas that was the Son of God rather than Jesus. Someday, in the right situation, it'd be fun to teach that alongside "The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ" by Philip Pullman.

-Pav, who enjoys stories that skew traditional religious beliefs...

I'd wholeheartedly recommned "The Garden Of The Forking Paths" and "Pierre Menard Author Of The Quixote". They're super short anywas, so no big loss if you don't like them.

Anyways, I was thinking that maybe the first nightmare from #75 could have been Ben's

[Spiderfan001]

We all know that Peter is supposedly the best Spider-Man for being the original and all that, that fact is not taken away from him, but he has also made several mistakes, without exaggerating I can make a list of each of those mistakes. Ben is probably one of the few characters that is equal and even better than the original Spider-Man, but it doesn't matter, this will end well for Ben, Peter and his fans.

How is this related to my post? I just said they did the whole Peter not being up to par thing and that the thing he does best is save the day.

Also "supposedly" "For being the original"? It's canon that he is the best Spider-man in the multiverse, by people like Spider-UK(connections to saturyene, multiverse), Madame Web(both old and new) and others including an alt. Earth Ben Reilly and others.Peter's decisions are the only ones shown to affect the web in as well, he isn't just the Best Spider-man and Centre of the Web(Doctor Strange confirmed he was as well) he's the Moral Lynchpin( Julia Madam Web).

He was chosen by Lord Chaos and Order personally as well.The infamous TOAA incident.Not to mention both Cable(Pre Secret Wars) and Miguel(Post Secret wars) say Peter is the greatest hero of them all.Daredevil said he is the best of us, Doctor Strange said the same.Multiple other heroes who I won't list now.Also even recently Peter was worthy of the 2 tablets guarded by the Merlin type figure, and he(and his daughter in the future) are the ones who bring down the reign of Mephisto.

Ben isn't better than Peter, Peter actually lived through all that happened and made those tough choices.Ben got the memories from him ,he feels as if it was real.He even admits that it isn't real and only feels like to him.Having memories doesn't mean he could have done what Peter did all those years, but he can do what Peter would going forward.Not to mention so much happened after that as well and Peter has been way more of a hero.

None of this remotely means he isn't an incredibly flawed individual, because he is.That's why he's not the perfect Spider-man, but all of his flaws and attributes are what make him the best.

"We're not just our failures. As much as they hurt, we learn from them. Then we go out there and do our best to make up for them, even though we never will. We save people. We save as many as we can to make up for the ones we couldn't. That's all we do."

-Peter Parker, who explains it the best

[boots]

"who is the best spider-man" seems like a pissing contest

even if marvel like to bait readers into it, we're probably better not getting sucked in

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

MJ was well written even when she was doing that IMO, she was kind and understanding and (nt sure about the era in this) but she kept at her job and provided while Peter was saving lives.

I don't think she was written badly but the thing is that even if she spent three issues playing the exact same role, that wouldn't be a big deal. You had three other magazines out that same month where she could do something else and she was in for the foreseeable future.

The clock is ticking for Janine and everyone from Ben's cast, however.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Yeah, that irks me too especially seeing how Ben already fails big against Doc OCk as early as January. At this point, I'm just hoping they don't kill Ben and don't sh*t too much on him

Doubt it. It's clear they are doing this in hopes that Ben can be rehabilitated enough to get another ongoing. Can't do that if he is dead.

[Spiderfan001]

"who is the best spider-man" seems like a pissing contest

even if marvel like to bait readers into it, we're probably better not getting sucked in

"Best" is subjective in in of itself, a lot of them are the "best" in diff. ways.I was just pointing out why Peter is considered the best one in canon.

I don't think she was written badly but the thing is that even if she spent three issues playing the exact same role, that wouldn't be a big deal. You had three other magazines out that same month where she could do something else and she was in for the foreseeable future.

The clock is ticking for Janine and everyone from Ben's cast, however.

Oh okay, you're right.I think Marcus is clear unless he gets attached to Ben/Janine and so is Danger and hopefully they don't kill Kafka and Janine.I wouldn't mind if they kill a Daughter of the Dragon(IIRC), Colleen probably but something tells me they won't.

[The Black Death]

How is this related to my post? I just said they did the whole Peter not being up to par thing and that the thing he does best is save the day.

Also "supposedly" "For being the original"? It's canon that he is the best Spider-man in the multiverse, by people like Spider-UK(connections to saturyene, multiverse), Madame Web(both old and new) and others including an alt. Earth Ben Reilly and others.Peter's decisions are the only ones shown to affect the web in as well, he isn't just the Best Spider-man and Centre of the Web(Doctor Strange confirmed he was as well) he's the Moral Lynchpin( Julia Madam Web).

He was chosen by Lord Chaos and Order personally as well.The infamous TOAA incident.Not to mention both Cable(Pre Secret Wars) and Miguel(Post Secret wars) say Peter is the greatest hero of them all.Daredevil said he is the best of us, Doctor Strange said the same.Multiple other heroes who I won't list now.Also even recently Peter was worthy of the 2 tablets guarded by the Merlin type figure, and he(and his daughter in the future) are the ones who bring down the reign of Mephisto.

Ben isn't better than Peter, Peter actually lived through all that happened and made those tough choices.Ben got the memories from him ,he feels as if it was real.He even admits that it isn't real and only feels like to him.Having memories doesn't mean he could have done what Peter did all those years, but he can do what Peter would going forward.Not to mention so much happened after that as well and Peter has been way more of a hero.

None of this remotely means he isn't an incredibly flawed individual, because he is.That's why he's not the perfect Spider-man, but all of his flaws and attributes are what make him the best.

"We're not just our failures. As much as they hurt, we learn from them. Then we go out there and do our best to make up for them, even though we never will. We save people. We save as many as we can to make up for the ones we couldn't. That's all we do."

-Peter Parker, who explains it the best

The best is relative, the reality is that it doesn't matter that so many characters and entities consider Peter as the best Spider-Man and the greatest hero of all when the poor guy can barely keep his life under control, but obviously Peter is also a human being who makes mistakes and that's part of his appeal, in the end that doesn't discredit all the good he has done as Spider-Man, if it's any consolation to know that I respect that too.

[boots]

"Best" is subjective in in of itself, a lot of them are the "best" in diff. ways.I was just pointing out why Peter is considered the best one in canon.

got it. i did see that in spiderverse and for my mileage, i'm not a fan of it. it's a bit DC comics for me. something i always liked about (my read on) marvel was that it wasn't about "bestetstest" or icons. one example is how DC used earth prime or earth 1 or whatever to denote the prime versions of its heroes but marvel chose 616, where our heroes are not necessarily better or worse than any in the multiverse. i think that's probably changed or eroded over time.

[Spiderfan001]

got it. i did see that in spiderverse and for my mileage, i'm not a fan of it. it's a bit DC comics for me. something i always liked about (my read on) marvel was that it wasn't about "bestetstest" or icons. one example is how DC used earth prime or earth 1 or whatever to denote the prime versions of its heroes but marvel chose 616, where our heroes are not necessarily better or worse than any in the multiverse. i think that's probably changed or eroded over time.

I agree, but w/ Peter the way he's treated as a joke w/ so many writers I feel like having this stuff said helps give a scope of what Peter is supposed to be.Even in Spider-geddon they sidelined him and made him a joke who Otto and even Miles was tired off, stuff like that makes me feel this stuff is important.If Peter was treated w/ the same respect they treat Superman, Batman, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain America(both Steve and Sam), even Daredevil etc. as a character by their companies then I'd say it's overkill, as it stands I think it's good and to some extent needed.Also because Web is mystical in nature and these are psychic Clairovoyants so the destiny/best of us aspect is one which is now part of Spider-man.

Also w/ DC I feel their heroes are "prime", best here IMO doesn't mean the strongest/most efficient but more along the lines of values/willpower.

[boots]

I agree, but w/ Peter the way he's treated as a joke w/ so many writers I feel like having this stuff said helps give a scope of what Peter is supposed to be.Even in Spider-geddon they sidelined him and made him a joke who Otto and even Miles was tired off, stuff like that makes me feel this stuff is important.If Peter was treated w/ the same respect they treat Superman, Batman, Wolverine, Black Panther, Captain America(both Steve and Sam), even Daredevil etc. as a character by their companies then I'd say it's overkill, as it stands I think it's good and to some extent needed.Also because Web is mystical in nature and these are psychic Clairovoyants so the destiny/best of us aspect is one which is now part of Spider-man.

Also w/ DC I feel their heroes are "prime", best here IMO doesn't mean the strongest/most efficient but more along the lines of values/willpower.

interesting perspective, one i hadn't considered. keeping in mind, i haven't been around for a lot of the "peter is a joke" depictions so my idea of how he's been handled might be behind. i also missed most of the mystical stuff bar spiderverse.

my personal feeling is that i'd love to see peter as the last man standing in a future apocalypse. i get why writers choose captain america for that, cos' symbolism, but spidey as the "average bloke" sings to me a bit more

[Spiderfan001]

interesting perspective, one i hadn't considered. keeping in mind, i haven't been around for a lot of the "peter is a joke" depictions so my idea of how he's been handled might be behind. i also missed most of the mystical stuff bar spiderverse.

my personal feeling is that i'd love to see peter as the last man standing in a future apocalypse. i get why writers choose captain america for that, cos' symbolism, but spidey as the "average bloke" sings to me a bit more

It was a lot more before but it still happens a lot specially during Slott and even now under him and other writers.Recently Thing was treating Peter like a joke under Slott in his ongoing FF run, not in a brotherly way.Whereas under better writers like Hickman they are like older and younger brothers.
Better writers like Hickman and Chip know how to write him well.

It's happens a lot w/ madam Web, Julia in the whole Spider-Island thing, the 5 issue Marvel Knights run where he fights against the 99 villains started by a vision as well(if you haven't read it, check it out.Art is weird but the story picks up and some great moments).

Yeah, they did that w/ the new Marvel Zombies where Peter was that and it was great.Agreed on the logic as well, Cap being there means things haven't really gone as dark for me.

[Huntsman Spider]

interesting perspective, one i hadn't considered. keeping in mind, i haven't been around for a lot of the "peter is a joke" depictions so my idea of how he's been handled might be behind. i also missed most of the mystical stuff bar spiderverse.

my personal feeling is that i'd love to see peter as the last man standing in a future apocalypse. i get why writers choose captain america for that, cos' symbolism, but spidey as the "average bloke" sings to me a bit more

It was a lot more before but it still happens a lot specially during Slott and even now under him and other writers.Recently Thing was treating Peter like a joke under Slott in his ongoing FF run, not in a brotherly way.Whereas under better writers like Hickman they are like older and younger brothers.
Better writers like Hickman and Chip know how to write him well.

It's happens a lot w/ madam Web, Julia in the whole Spider-Island thing, the 5 issue Marvel Knights run where he fights against the 99 villains started by a vision as well(if you haven't read it, check it out.Art is weird but the story picks up and some great moments).

Yeah, they did that w/ the new Marvel Zombies where Peter was that and it was great.Agreed on the logic as well, Cap being there means things haven't really gone as dark for me.

Oh, yeah, Marvel Zombies Resurrection was pretty good. You might also get your wish with Dark Ages, with Peter and his daughter likely to play leading roles in the coming resistance to Apocalypse's efforts to seize power.

[Ursalink]

I can't understand how it's possible Ben hasn't still figure out yet there's something rotten on Beyond.

By the way, it seems Aunt May is going to make a "pact with the devil" (Dr Octopus) to save Peter's life. Where did I see this before?

Very sweet from Felicia to come to check on Peter too, but it kinda worries me she had to appear in the same moment MJ tells Peter "Come back to me, tiger". Will this be related with their issue working together?