History of Asgardians on Earth

[jackolover]

One theory I've considered is that the Ragnarok cycles specified in AGES OF THUNDER were not properly in synch with mortal history. Their versions of Asgard and the gods may have lived and died eons before 16,000 BCE (which some sources state to be when they first became known and worshipped by humanity), but the Midgard/Earth they interacted with was one many thousands of years in their future, closer to recorded history (though still probably prior to the current cycle). Perhaps the different cycles even overlapped in Earth-time, so multiple versions of the gods could have been active at the same time. Opinions?

Do you at all subsribe to the origin of Earth/Midgard as directly related to the Asgardians? Thats is, that Asgardians created Earth/Midgard as one of the 10 worlds? If that is the case, then it had to be in the time of Cul/Odin, because Bor wasn't interested in 10 worlds to my experience? And I don't know how many Ragnaroks had progressed till that time of Cul/Odin. We do know by Fraction that Odin slaughtered an early version of humanity that was infected with fear from Cul, who was Allfather before Odin.

[davew128]

Do you at all subsribe to the origin of Earth/Midgard as directly related to the Asgardians? Thats is, that Asgardians created Earth/Midgard as one of the 10 worlds? If that is the case, then it had to be in the time of Cul/Odin, because Bor wasn't interested in 10 worlds to my experience? And I don't know how many Ragnaroks had progressed till that time of Cul/Odin. We do know by Fraction that Odin slaughtered an early version of humanity that was infected with fear from Cul, who was Allfather before Odin.

Allfather hyperbole. Had such a thing happened, the Celestials would have wiped out Asgard.

[KingsLeadHat]

Do you at all subsribe to the origin of Earth/Midgard as directly related to the Asgardians? Thats is, that Asgardians created Earth/Midgard as one of the 10 worlds? If that is the case, then it had to be in the time of Cul/Odin, because Bor wasn't interested in 10 worlds to my experience? And I don't know how many Ragnaroks had progressed till that time of Cul/Odin. We do know by Fraction that Odin slaughtered an early version of humanity that was infected with fear from Cul, who was Allfather before Odin.

It's an established Marvel fact that the life on Earth evolved just like it did in our reality and the Earth formed 4 billion years ago as science tells us it did. So it is indeed godly hyperbole. Even the Elder Gods don't predate Earth. The fact is that a "group" like the Elders of the Universe are far older than any Earthly god.

[jackolover]

It's an established Marvel fact that the life on Earth evolved just like it did in our reality and the Earth formed 4 billion years ago as science tells us it did. So it is indeed godly hyperbole. Even the Elder Gods don't predate Earth. The fact is that a "group" like the Elders of the Universe are far older than any Earthly god.

Why do we elevate one explanation over another explanation? I have yet to see any definative authoritative statement one way or the other. And as far as real Earth formed 4 million years ago, that could be hyperbole in 50 years time too, so I wouldn't be dismissing God hyperbole in favor of the current understanding. Myself, and that's just me, I believe the Earth was a spontaneous occurrence. I don't believe for a minute Big Bang rubble collected into solar systems with a sun in the center, otherwise why hasn't the asteroid belt conglomerated into a planet? On the contrary the asteroid belt was a planet that was destroyed. And throw anything into space and it just floats away it doesn't aggregate. Gas aggregating after a Big Bang? Not likely. More likely gas would just expand to fill the void. I never liked that theory of aggregation in space. None of that made any logical sense.

[KingsLeadHat]

Why do we elevate one explanation over another explanation? I have yet to see any definative authoritative statement one way or the other. And as far as real Earth formed 4 million years ago, that could be hyperbole in 50 years time too, so I wouldn't be dismissing God hyperbole in favor of the current understanding. Myself, and that's just me, I believe the Earth was a spontaneous occurrence. I don't believe for a minute Big Bang rubble collected into solar systems with a sun in the center, otherwise why hasn't the asteroid belt conglomerated into a planet? On the contrary the asteroid belt was a planet that was destroyed. And throw anything into space and it just floats away it doesn't aggregate. Gas aggregating after a Big Bang? Not likely. More likely gas would just expand to fill the void. I never liked that theory of aggregation in space. None of that made any logical sense.

What basis do you have for believing that Earth spontaneously occurred? Have you ever read or watch explanations for the accepted theories of planetary accretion, etc.? I'm going to assume that you're religious given your comments. When enough matter comes into close contact, gravitational forces come into play and you get things like stars and planets. Not to get to deep into this, the formation of a planet is a "special" occurrence that takes place in the wake of the formation of a star. It was a violent era the early solar system, which was the apparent environment needed to form a planet. You're not going to see this out in the asteroid belt right now. There are many great YouTube videos that could explain this for you.

[JKtheMac]

I think the Elder God > Humanity > Pantheon idea was specifically designed to deflect religious concerns. It effectively turns the creation of mankind (through manipulation) and the creation of mankind's gods into science fiction while conveniently not even mentioning christians.

Thor comics have wrestled with the implied alternative religion many times. For some reason the most common foil chosen is a Catholic priest. I don't know enough social history of comics to properly point to the eras where such ideas would have come under scrutiny from religious lobbyists, but I do remember a couple of such periods. To current eyes it seems odd when this issue is even raised. We are in an era saturated with fantasy imagery with playful use of the arcane or mystic material.

[JKtheMac]

It is interesting to consider the hyperborean / hyborean stories in historical context. The concepts owe their origins to the pseudo history of a western super race of mankind lost in the distant past. The same ideas gave birth to fantasy stories and extremists. I find it hard to separate the two in my head, but I do appreciate the sword and sorcery genre was popular escapism and rarely drifted into political territory.

I am not sure we can consider the Conan comics cannon anymore. Marvel no longer have the publishing rights, and any other characters from that era have been pushed into the weirdworld realm, effectively shifting cannon post Secret Wars.

[jackolover]

What basis do you have for believing that Earth spontaneously occurred? Have you ever read or watch explanations for the accepted theories of planetary accretion, etc.? I'm going to assume that you're religious given your comments. When enough matter comes into close contact, gravitational forces come into play and you get things like stars and planets. Not to get to deep into this, the formation of a planet is a "special" occurrence that takes place in the wake of the formation of a star. It was a violent era the early solar system, which was the apparent environment needed to form a planet. You're not going to see this out in the asteroid belt right now. There are many great YouTube videos that could explain this for you.

Psuedo religious maybe. I haven't attributed it to any specific faith.

They must be very special cases for suns to just spontaneously occur. Notice that fits my theory.

[jackolover]

It is interesting to consider the hyperborean / hyborean stories in historical context. The concepts owe their origins to the pseudo history of a western super race of mankind lost in the distant past. The same ideas gave birth to fantasy stories and extremists. I find it hard to separate the two in my head, but I do appreciate the sword and sorcery genre was popular escapism and rarely drifted into political territory.

I am not sure we can consider the Conan comics cannon anymore. Marvel no longer have the publishing rights, and any other characters from that era have been pushed into the weirdworld realm, effectively shifting cannon post Secret Wars.

I have read the genome mappers mention that there was a hugew popuation 60,000 years ago in what was once an large arc of middle Eurasia, (from Germany east to Kazakstan if memory serves me). How a population as large as that accumulated in that area in the last Ice Age, no one explained exactly, but it certainly sounds like a hyperborean / hyborean period. Very curious.

[JKtheMac]

I have read the genome mappers mention that there was a hugew popuation 60,000 years ago in what was once an large arc of middle Eurasia, (from Germany east to Kazakstan if memory serves me). How a population as large as that accumulated in that area in the last Ice Age, no one explained exactly, but it certainly sounds like a hyperborean / hyborean period. Very curious.

That was a migratory period so I would question this. Do you have a scientific reference? Also the early humans of this period couldn't be called a civilization.

[KingsLeadHat]

Psuedo religious maybe. I haven't attributed it to any specific faith.

They must be very special cases for suns to just spontaneously occur. Notice that fits my theory.

You do realize that certain nebula are basically galactic nurseries? We can "see" where and how stars are formed. I don't want to get too far off topic, but here are the basics of the current theory of how stars form.

how-are-stars-formed-diagram.jpg

[JKtheMac]

You do realize that certain nebula are basically galactic nurseries? We can "see" where and how stars are formed. I don't want to get too far off topic, but here are the basics of the current theory of how stars form.

Maybe I can save you some time and angst. When somebody says they 'believe' something they are not using science to decide because science has very little to say about belief. It isn't based on belief by it's very nature. Yes many beliefs are provably wrong by science but the words "I believe" suggest that science isn't part of the thinking and science is unlikely to be persuasive. Some beliefs are entirely compatible with science, but even those can't mutually support each other in a scientific sense.

[mace11]

I am not sure we can consider the Conan comics cannon anymore. Marvel no longer have the publishing rights, and any other characters from that era have been pushed into the weirdworld realm, effectively shifting cannon post Secret Wars.

You are correct. The conan marvel comics are not canon anymore.
I posted some info here from the comic companies and my thoughts awhile ago.


Thread: What is ANAD? I'm Confused.
http://community.comicbookresources....Confused/page7
and
http://community.comicbookresources....onfused/page10

[JKtheMac]

You are correct. The conan marvel comics are not canon anymore.
I posted some info here from the comic companies and my thoughts awhile ago.


Thread: What is ANAD? I'm Confused.
http://community.comicbookresources....Confused/page7
and
http://community.comicbookresources....onfused/page10

Well it seems we agree. Not seeing anything from the companies in your links, did you have an actual quote that this was what editorial were thinking? It seems an elegant solution to turn Weirdworld into a kind of story nexus, allowing them to occasionally use older IP that they need to keep hold of without needing to explain how everything fits. I think a lot of the thinking since Secret Wars has been pragmatic. Like the way we are no longer tied to a sliding timeline and some pasts are seen as alternative universes that are somehow linked to the present. As long as this stuff remains vague and hand-wavy they can always point at Secret Wars as a reboot.

There have been suggestions that the nature of the reboot will be explored in more detail at some point, and it may be impacting Thor right now, with the 1610 Mjolnir shift. Things are different now and we will see how different as the stories unfold.

This may also allow them to have yet another Ragnarok story at some point, presumably without the annoyance of 'those who sit above in shadow'. I never liked them. Reading the Disassembled story it is interesting that even there, there is a hint that they might be The Beyonders, and so when they are dispatched in the Loki story that is building on cannon.

[jackolover]

That was a migratory period so I would question this. Do you have a scientific reference? Also the early humans of this period couldn't be called a civilization.

No. It was a news item and it only concentrated on back tracing DNA origins. I found it curious because the location was odd, and that for there to be so many people there must have been cities. I'll try to look it up.