Wonder Woman OP??

[Masterff]

Not. that is not the only thing that makes her great. And she is not the most powerful anyway.

Power level is not everything, but a lot of people care about it as an important part of characters. And the way many fans of Superman, Hulk, Thor etc act prove this. It's not just WW fans. She lifted a rock that AQ and Sm together couldn't. So what? Many other characters have done far more "ridiculous" things. And she beat Stranger via the power of the Lasso revealing the truth. She didn't beat him with a couple of hits.

IT DOESNT MATTER!!!!

1. Lasso SHOULDNT!!!! have any effect on him!!!
Phantom Stranger,Spectre,Lucifer,Michael,Elaine,Presence.. ...should be immune to the lasso.
They are ALL somehow related to the Presence and therefore should be immune to the lasso!!!!

Presence created everything and he is the only TRUE GOD-Zeus,Hera,Darkseid.....are only his creations and Phantom Stranger,Spectre.....should be immune to such powers.

Doomsday Clock - “Superman is the lynchpin of the DC multiverse”

Cool

Dark Knights: Metal/Death Metal - “Batman going evil is the greatest threat to the DC multiverse”

Love it

An issue of Justice League - “Wonder Woman can lift a rock”

Now hold on a minute, player

Superman isnt said to be the most powerful being, but he is the INSPIRATION!!!!! etc. for others...
People listen to him, he is an idol etc. etc.

But she's not... Could you post what strenght feats put her exactly above Diana?

By scaling and actual feats Wonder Woman is stronger than her, i would say that even Big Barda has better showing of strenght than Power Girl since she lifted the weight of a continent.

if you say Kara is stronger than Diana because of her Kryptonian physiology that's NLF, since there are not feats to support that claim

KC Superman, Magog, Captain Atom etc.

but for Power Girl is difficult because like I said she had many different origins, before becoming Kryptonian...

And actually WHO said that Power Girl is stronger than Diana only because of her kryptonian physiology???
I DIDNT!!

I said:

Power Girl>>>>>Supergirl
and not because of Kryptonian Physiology! Its because Power Girl spent more time under yellow sun and is older and therefore stronger than Supergirl!!

All i see in those links is WW finally having some moments to shine, after a long time being a background character in most jl stories. It doesn't mean she is "OP".

If you are able to "defeat" the Phantom Stranger you are basically OP...
Sorry, but NO ONE not even Superman,Orion,Darkseid......should be able to do something like that to Phantom Stranger!!!

Nobody seems to have a problem when Superman is stated to be multiverse in some stories. Or even batman. But no, a woman with blessings from actual Gods, with another God as her father and magic unbreakable gear and weapons? No, there is no way she could be that powerful. But an alien acting like a solar battery and a rich man with issues can right? Sigh...............

I DONT see Zeus etc. as "real gods"...

Presence is the only god, while Zeus,Darkseid etc. were only made by him and only exist because he wants them to exist.

I actually ALWAYS said that Batman is to powerful....

Superman always said that Martian Manhunter is one of the beings he fears to fight against, Wonder Woman showed also that she can defeat Superman in battle thanks to her skills....

And also this with Tartaros was OP: sorry, but BATMAN the one who has a Contingency Plan for everyone, doesnt know what Tartaros is-something which EVERYONE can find in the Internet and has to ask Diana???

And its not only that:
Like I said with the other link:
Male members of JL only use brute force, while Diana because she is a woman uses her intelligence...

And sorry but NO!! in the last YEARS it was always Diana who got the biggest push...

Starting with her becoming Zeus daughter, then getting Goddess of War and getting even a GOD-MODE (I think it was in NEW52 when she removed the bracelets...)

[Agent Z]

Christian Bale's Batman in terms of feats is probably the weakest onscreen Batman ever and yet he's also the most popular, very few people complain about him not being as strong as other versions. Contrast that with all the complaints JL Batman gets for dodging Omega Beams, KOing Sinestro with a Batarang and judo flipping Kalibak

You'll see plenty of people in this board who are fans of Golden Age Superman despite him being the weakest incarnation of Superman ever.

This isn't a Batman thread or even in the Batman forum so I don't want to sidetrack the conversation too much, but imo this forum is mostly anti-Batman. In a recent thread asking who your favorite Batfamily member I think he was in 3rd, THIRD. It's his franchise and he didn't even win a popularity contest in his own forum, can you see that happening to Wonder Woman or Superman? Batman isn't as beloved here as you seem to think, and Batgod sure isn't either.

What Psy-Lock said on the matter. And also, that is a really poor example of an anti-Batman bias when you consider how much lower characters like Barbara Gordon were. It's less there being a bias against Bruce and more that fans are capable of liking other characters besides him which is a testament to how well the Batman franchise has been done.

One other thing, or double standard really, I wanted to mention is how the "characters shouldn't be de-powered, it's a sign of lazy writers" only seems to apply to some characters and not others. Wonder Woman and Superman in the eyes of a lot of their fans should be as strong as possible with little to no weakness and no writer better dare try to reign it in (It's lazy don't ya know) but Batman being a top tier: detective, fighter, tactician, scientist and athlete makes him an overpowered Batgod and how can there possibly be drama in his stories? Who can relate to someone that OP? Oh yeah, the characters we love and argue to be as strong and invulnerable as possible.

Wonder Woman and Superman have actual super powers. Them dodging Darkseid's Omega Beams or judo flipping Kalibak makes much more sense than Batman doing it and even then you will see fans who dislike the New Gods being beaten by any hero no matter how powerful they are unless said hero is a New God themselves.

To finish it off specifically about WW, at least from what I've seen, her fans want her as strong as possible. There's nothing wrong with that of course but I never see her fans say her power should be toned down.

I have had conversations with fans arguing in favor of Diana being vulnerable to bullets and bladed weapons. Trust me, it happens.

[Agent Z]

I dont understand the problem:
POWER GIRL IS!!!!!!!! STRONGER!!!!! than Wonder Woman, BUT!!!! she ISNT TRAINED as WONDER WOMAN!!!!

Its ridiculously easy:

Power Girl is stronger, BUT!!! she and also Superman werent trained as much as Wonder Woman was in fighting...



The Problem is not her getting spotlight!

Problem is:

1. https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-w...n-best-member/
Here she solves EASILY a situation using her intelligence, while the male members stand around etc.
She does it even by checking the GREEN LANTERN XENOTYPE directory, while GREEN LANTERN says that its not time for that...

This looks like as the males know only force, while the female one is smart and solves the situation without force.
Its even worse that she uses GREEN LANTERN XENOTYPE DIRECTORY, which suggest that its Green Lantern ressource which HE should have the Idea to use it etc.

2. https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-kil...eaks-presence/
This shows her "defeating" one of the most powerful beings and speaking to the PRESENCE itself...
Its not "normal" villain, god etc. its something ABOVE Doomsday,Darkseid etc. etc. etc.

3 https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-str...ce-league-men/
She seems to be STRONGER THAN AQUAMAN AND SUPERMAN combined
Which is just ridiculous if you dont explain it with Supermans weakness to magic, because otherwise she would be stronger than 2 of JL most powerful members combined



1. not true, Power Girl is more powerful than Wonder Woman, but Wonder Woman was trained to fight and has therefore more skills in fighting and more experience.
I dont understand whats so difficult about that

2. Superman isnt the most powerful male hero..
SHAZAM is as powerful as he is and even more powerful because of Supermans weakness to magic
DAMAGE was said that he is probably even STRONGER than Superman
ORION
SPECTRE

3. That with Phantom Stranger should be IMPOSSIBLE for ALL MORTALS!!!!!
I would say the same if it would have been SUPERMAN or BATMAN etc.

4. https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-w...n-best-member/
This here makes it look like:
MALES using strength to solve problem
CLEVER FEMALE uses INTELLIGENCE

If Power Girl is more powerful than Wonder Woman why aren't you making a thread about how OP she is?

[NaVi]

we all know that ww and superman are on the same level (strength) but superman slightly higher, but now ww is stronger than superman and aquaman together, and according to ww fans, superman fans can't say anything, we have to be happy for ww. I wonder what would happen if a comic comes out next month that shows that Superman is a much better fighter than WW, which fans of the spoiled DC girl would say.

[VonHammersmark]

we all know that ww and superman are on the same level (strength) but superman slightly higher, but now ww is stronger than superman and aquaman together, and according to ww fans, superman fans can't say anything, we have to be happy for ww. I wonder what would happen if a comic comes out next month that shows that Superman is a much better fighter than WW, which fans of the spoiled DC girl would say.

When Wonder Woman destroys the League with one hand tied behind her back in a JL movie / youtube video that’s been viewed 112 million times, we can talk about how spoiled we are. Or when they turn Superman into a chew toy for Genocide, or zombie Wonder Woman just casually swats him aside.

[SiegePerilous02]

One other thing, or double standard really, I wanted to mention is how the "characters shouldn't be de-powered, it's a sign of lazy writers" only seems to apply to some characters and not others. Wonder Woman and Superman in the eyes of a lot of their fans should be as strong as possible with little to no weakness and no writer better dare try to reign it in (It's lazy don't ya know) but Batman being a top tier: detective, fighter, tactician, scientist and athlete makes him an overpowered Batgod and how can there possibly be drama in his stories? Who can relate to someone that OP? Oh yeah, the characters we love and argue to be as strong and invulnerable as possible.

There isn't a double standard when you think about it. There is a very clear difference in how Batman is set up to function versus the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman. Nobody should have an issue with him being among the top tier in the fields you mentioned. That does not make Bat-God: him outrunning Darkseid's Omega Beams, one punching Cheetah, judo throwing Kalibak, mumbling a half assed spell to depower CIRCE, and having a near limtiless supply of mecha suits as if he's Iron Man all the sudden are the dumb, lazy Bat-God tropes that people can't stand. Batman is basically a God and we should be in awe of him...scaled to his own adventures. It's the difference between RIP and the Return of Bruce Wayne. The former is him in his element with foes that challenge him and would overwhelm anyone else in that portion of the genre but he comes out on top. In the latter, he uses what skills he has to survive against the Hyper Adapter long enough to get to the present day so the JL can handle it, because that's more their element than his. But he still looks good by surviving that long, everyone actually looks good. That's the way to do it.

Him punching above his weight class without much logic IS lazy and a shorthand to make him badass to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Wonder Woman meanwhile is in the weight class to actually do those things without being OP, because it's all scaled up to her level. Powering her down to to make it easier IS lazy. And nobody is asking her to encroach on Batman's territory and be a better detective, are they?

Like this shouldn't even be a question. Batman did not become popular by dealing with the Superman and Wonder Woman level threats, and scaling them differently to do his stuff isn't going to help them. Different characters require different approaches.

[Gaius]

Whats the problem with that?

REAL PROBLEM for me was more that in Pre-Flashpoint Cassandra was Zeus daughter and Diana made out of Clay
NEW52 changed it and Zeus became Dianas Father and Cassandras Zeus granddaughter...

Because as I said I don’t see anything Jason brings to the table for WW’s universe beyond being a reminder of the Zeus origin and forcing WW to take a backseat to him in her one book; not like Batman or Superman where they usually have two to three in addition to their prominent team books. Which as said elsewhere is not a good look for a title intended to be female-led.

Don’t know what Cassie has to do with this. Not attached to her being a daughter of Zeus either.

[NaVi]

When Wonder Woman destroys the League with one hand tied behind her back in a JL movie / youtube video that’s been viewed 112 million times, we can talk about how spoiled we are. Or when they turn Superman into a chew toy for Genocide, or zombie Wonder Woman just casually swats him aside.

ww killed superman because he went to save his family and then ripped off his spine. If a comic comes out tomorrow where Superman fights better than ww, would you be happy?

[Ascended]

Sorry, but the story with PHANTOM STRANGER should be IMPOSSIBLE for EVERY MORTAL...

Its simple:
PHANTOM STRANGER should be UNTOUCHABLE for all MORTALS and this INCLUDES DARKSEID AND ZEUS!!!

PRESENCE even more!!!

As I said I didn't read this whole thread so I'm not sure what Phantom Stranger story you're talking about.

But you need to go read my post again.

There is no such thing as "over powered" there's simply bad stories. If the Stranger was involved in a story where some mortal got the better of him, that's not someone being OP it's a writer who didn't do their job right.

Proper challenges for your protagonists means there is no such thing as being over powered. And I'm not gonna try to dump years' worth of writing courses into this thread to explain the narrative scientifics behind it. But if you want to think Diana or whoever is over powered....go ahead. You're wrong, objectively, but that's your business.

[Restingvoice]

IT DOESNT MATTER!!!!

1. Lasso SHOULDNT!!!! have any effect on him!!!
Phantom Stranger,Spectre,Lucifer,Michael,Elaine,Presence.. ...should be immune to the lasso.
They are ALL somehow related to the Presence and therefore should be immune to the lasso!!!!

"They are ALL somehow related to the Presence and therefore should be immune to the lasso!!!!"

Has this been established by DC lore anytime anywhere or is this your interpretation of how things should be?

[NaVi]

"They are ALL somehow related to the Presence and therefore should be immune to the lasso!!!!"

Has this been established by DC lore anytime anywhere or is this your interpretation of how things should be?

They are almost omnipotent, if that is not enough, I think it is indisputable proof that ww is a Mary Sue

[Mel Dyer]

The problem is the DC Universe's Greek gods.

The KEY to comic fans constant short-changing Wonder Woman is the shabby, shabby way (and that's being kind) that the DCU's Greek gods, Wonder Woman's power source, are treated. How many times have Superman, Darkseid and even BATMAN been shown, besting an Olympian god (a freakin' god) in combat? There is going to have to be an editorial mandate, which corrects this, if Wonder Woman's power is ever going to be respected, among DC's superheroes.

Think about it...Wonder Woman's power is magical. Magic is the source of her power, and magic doesn't have a limit. Magic can't be counted (quantified). So, following the John Byrne editorial mandate of 1995 (why I love John Byrne), which is still in-place, today, ..Wonder Woman has enough Olympian magic to make her second-in-power, ONLY to Superman. In addition to being powered by a limitless thing, like magic, she has mastered some Amazon training, a cryptic martial and spiritual discipline, which enables her to beat your trasero, all your friends and your tios' traseros ..and some butts, she hasn't even met, yet! END of debate! Forever...

No, Kryptonian blood doesn't automatically trump the Olympian MAGIC of the Greek gods.

No, Power Girl is not stronger or more powerful, than Wonder Woman.

No, Batman cannot beat a schmah'vuggin' Greek god. Not ever. Hades naw!! [Puh-lee-eease!]

No, Kryptonian blood does not make everyone, who has it, stronger, than everyone else - just Superman.

No, we (writers and editors, included) don't have a problem with CAPTAIN MARVEL using Olympian god magic to beat Superman, Martian Manhunter and whoever; so, we should stop losing our fanboy minds, ..every time that we see Wonder Woman do it. This could be settled, by editors establishing, across all DC Comics titles, that the power of the Greek gods is some serious ..and on equal footing, with the power of the New Gods, like DARKSEID and the rest!

Gotta fix those Greek gods, amigos! Gotta' happen, ..like yesterday. Like right now...

Some of you want to know why me and some of the other long-standing fans are always ranting and raving about how the Wonder Woman comic is edited; well, conversations, like this, ..is why we do that. Cuz, if we had more editors standing up for this lady and demanding some care, with how she and other WW comic characters are handled - as much care, as writers take with Batman - we wouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to retro-edit WW comics, on a fan forum or in the convention halls, folks!

I, for one, am getting tired of that, ..and I think we deserve better.

[Perseus]

The problem is the DC Universe's Greek gods.

The KEY to comic fans constant short-changing Wonder Woman is the shabby, shabby way (and that's being kind) that the DCU's Greek gods, Wonder Woman's power source, are treated. How many times have Superman, Darkseid and even BATMAN been shown, besting an Olympian god (a freakin' god) in combat? There is going to have to be an editorial mandate, which corrects this, if Wonder Woman's power is ever going to be respected, among DC's superheroes.

Think about it...Wonder Woman's power is magical. Magic is the source of her power, and magic doesn't have a limit. Magic can't be counted (quantified). So, following the John Byrne editorial mandate of 1995 (why I love John Byrne), which is still in-place, today, ..Wonder Woman has enough Olympian magic to make her second-in-power, ONLY to Superman. In addition to being powered by a limitless thing, like magic, she has mastered some Amazon training, a cryptic martial and spiritual discipline, which enables her to beat your trasero, all your friends and your tios' traseros ..and some butts, she hasn't even met, yet! END of debate! Forever...

No, Kryptonian blood doesn't automatically trump the Olympian MAGIC of the Greek gods.

No, Power Girl is not stronger or more powerful, than Wonder Woman.

No, Batman cannot beat a schmah'vuggin' Greek god. Hades naw!! [Puh-lee-eease!]

No, Kryptonian blood does not make everyone, who has it, stronger, than everyone else - just Superman.

No, we (writers and editors, included) don't have a problem with CAPTAIN MARVEL using the same Olympian magic to beat Superman, Martian Manhunter and whoever; so, we should stop losing our fanboy minds, ..every time that we see Wonder Woman do it. This could be settled, by editors establishing, across all DC Comics titles, that the power of the Greek gods is some serious :O ..and on equal footing, with the power of the New Gods, ..as in DARKSEID and the rest!

Gotta fix those Greek gods, amigos! Gotta' happen, ..like yesterday. Like right now...

Some of you want to know why me and some of the other long-standing fans are always ranting and raving about how the Wonder Woman comic is edited; well, conversations, like this, ..is why we do that. Cuz, if we had more editors standing up for this lady and demanding some care, with how she and other WW comic characters are handled - as much care, as writers take with Batman - we wouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to retro-edit WW comics, on a fan forum or in the convention halls, folks!

I, for one, am getting tired of that, ..and I think we deserve better.

I can not agree more with this assessment. I mean really.

Some people on this thread acting like that boulder nonsense actually implies that she's stronger then everyone combined. REALLY? really? Some of yall are out of your dang minds if you think she or ANYONE else for that matter hasn't lifted anything heavier than a giant rock before.

Also, she's showing off her wisdom and aptitude for leadership. OH NO?! IT's like she was blessed by some Goddess of WISDOM and warfare/ sarcasm.

[NaVi]

The problem is the DC Universe's Greek gods.

The KEY to comic fans constant short-changing Wonder Woman is the shabby, shabby way (and that's being kind) that the DCU's Greek gods, Wonder Woman's power source, are treated. How many times have Superman, Darkseid and even BATMAN been shown, besting an Olympian god (a freakin' god) in combat? There is going to have to be an editorial mandate, which corrects this, if Wonder Woman's power is ever going to be respected, among DC's superheroes.

Think about it...Wonder Woman's power is magical. Magic is the source of her power, and magic doesn't have a limit. Magic can't be counted (quantified). So, following the John Byrne editorial mandate of 1995 (why I love John Byrne), which is still in-place, today, ..Wonder Woman has enough Olympian magic to make her second-in-power, ONLY to Superman. In addition to being powered by a limitless thing, like magic, she has mastered some Amazon training, a cryptic martial and spiritual discipline, which enables her to beat your trasero, all your friends and your tios' traseros ..and some butts, she hasn't even met, yet! END of debate! Forever...

No, Kryptonian blood doesn't automatically trump the Olympian MAGIC of the Greek gods.

No, Power Girl is not stronger or more powerful, than Wonder Woman.

No, Batman cannot beat a schmah'vuggin' Greek god. Hades naw!! [Puh-lee-eease!]

No, Kryptonian blood does not make everyone, who has it, stronger, than everyone else - just Superman.

No, we (writers and editors, included) don't have a problem with CAPTAIN MARVEL using the same Olympian magic to beat Superman, Martian Manhunter and whoever; so, we should stop losing our fanboy minds, ..every time that we see Wonder Woman do it. This could be settled, by editors establishing, across all DC Comics titles, that the power of the Greek gods is some serious ..and on equal footing, with the power of the New Gods, ..as in DARKSEID and the rest!

Gotta fix those Greek gods, amigos! Gotta' happen, ..like yesterday. Like right now...

Some of you want to know why me and some of the other long-standing fans are always ranting and raving about how the Wonder Woman comic is edited; well, conversations, like this, ..is why we do that. Cuz, if we had more editors standing up for this lady and demanding some care, with how she and other WW comic characters are handled - as much care, as writers take with Batman - we wouldn't have to. We shouldn't have to retro-edit WW comics, on a fan forum or in the convention halls, folks!

I, for one, am getting tired of that, ..and I think we deserve better.

Just because an energy is unlimited does not mean that the being that uses that energy has unlimited power, it all depends on the energy that he is able to take advantage of, so Olympus' excuse is not worth it. you can't want ww, be the second most powerful (now the most powerful and by far), the best warrior, without weakness, and that everyone applaud. Superman and his fans have been criticized for being too powerful a character. because ww and his fans (and anyone) can't be told anything.

[Perseus]

Real talk, Diana is not OP. She is, when written and portrayed proper, as powerful as Superman. And I mean physical stats; strength, striking power, speed, reflexes, durability, resilience, healing factor. NOT magic or extra abilities like heat vision, super breath, and lightning.


Like Diana is a faster fighter than Kal, big deal. She has similar stats with 3000+ years of exp behind her belt, I expect her reflexes to match flash.