Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[butterflykyss]

It's funny, cause I'm willing to give it a chance but I have no desire to read it until I read the reviews. I value this Thread's opinions when it comes to Storm. If you guys say it's good, I was gonna read the first issue. I hate the premise and Kitty as the leader but if you guys like it, I will give it a chance.

You just dismissed my opinion and we were in the middle of a discussion...after that I was like **** it.

I went and got my spellbook, wand, chicken blood and was gonna give it my always working "Captain Marvel" curse...joking..maybe...lol.

the last time I recall chickens being sacrificed here was when wanted confirmation ororo was a goddess. if chickens must be slaughtered for ororo to be handled with respect in the maurauders title may the hadari yao order your steps and guide your hands so that no blood is wasted.

[Ororo101]

I seriously dont think there was a point in having her X-Monday. literally none of the questions relevant to her development were answered.

It was a sham. An embarrassment. We were swindled and bamboozled. An insult tbqfh. I feel like it was written by Joann the Scammer herself. Upset me more than a lot other things regarding Ororo in recent memory. Just came off as disrespect by the X offices because every other X-men Monday has actually had even a shred of substance. It was trash. That is all.

[Ororo101]

It's funny, cause I'm willing to give it a chance but I have no desire to read it until I read the reviews. I value this Thread's opinions when it comes to Storm. If you guys say it's good, I was gonna read the first issue. I hate the premise and Kitty as the leader but if you guys like it, I will give it a chance.

You just dismissed my opinion and we were in the middle of a discussion...after that I was like **** it.

I went and got my spellbook, wand, chicken blood and was gonna give it my always working "Captain Marvel" curse...joking..maybe...lol.

Lmao LAM!!! Don’t go and do us dirty like that please haha. We must forgive each other, y’all know it’s in our nature as Storm fans to be petty!

[terrancejameson]

It's weird how you think I haven't been a Storm fan for over 30 years.

I never questioned your Storm fan status. I simply implied how its weird that you could assume that Storm fans could automatically want any book she's associated with to fail just because they don't jump up and down for a few shiny covers. We got that with Bianchi. Pretty covers and not much else. Her influence and pull across Africa wasn't followed up on. Astonishing had great gems, but nothing. You can see some semblance of Ellis trying to follow up on Worlds apart with San Fronteres. Still nothing came of it. That's not being negative, that's being real.

I could jump around to every team she's been part from that point until now. It's not needed because you and I both know there was no steady or clear direction for her character. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but instead we have the X-office that cried they loved Storm. I personally like most of the characters on the new team, but I'm not gonna delude myself into believing that all Storm fans are gonna give it a shot just because I like how it sounds. We're talking about the X-books. Most Storm fans can spot when someone is stalling and bullshitting. That's why I directed you to Storm's X-Monday article. It was garbage. And fan reaction was pretty universal.

[powerpax]

I never questioned your Storm fan status. I simply implied how its weird that you could assume that Storm fans could automatically want any book she's associated with to fail just because they don't jump up and down for a few shiny covers.

There is no evidence that Storm fans are being played with 'shiny covers' (what, like foil? is this 1993?). But what will occur if the book isn't fairly judged when it prints and not before is the same vicious cycle of use and neglect every fan of any comic book character is familiar with, which is what I have outlined.

We got that with Bianchi. Pretty covers and not much else. Her influence and pull across Africa wasn't followed up on. Astonishing had great gems, but nothing. You can see some semblance of Ellis trying to follow up on Worlds apart with San Fronteres. Still nothing came of it. That's not being negative, that's being real.

Ellis wrote good stories in his brief Astonishing run and I felt used Storm well. But it was always a limited run and it was not a Storm book. That's putting a metric on it that I don't think applies. I also don't know how that past run is relevant to a new ongoing book which features Storm. Frankly I think making her always 'the leader' too often relegates Storm to a bloodless, sexless archetypal stock position that very few writers outside Claremont know how to use her well in. So whether or not she is the leader of the Marauders doesn't interest me. All I care about is the moment when it prints and if I think it's any good. Also I'm more interested in her use in Hickman's book, whether she's there every month or not.

[terrancejameson]

Considering there's an apparent subset of fans that think Ororo's only viable future going forward is in being wifed up by Black Panther regardless of the actually quite visible trajectory of the movies (where, sorry, they're not going to be tossing out Oscar winner Lupita Nyong'o for Storm any time soon), nothing surprises me anymore.

I'm all for Storm being active in the current BP run. It seems to be decent as does the romance revisit, though I personally doubt it's going to last. But my first interest is Storm for Storm, not Storm as a potential subsidiary of the MCU Black Panther franchise so let's focus on getting her there at the expense of everything else.

Yes. I'm a fan of the relationship. It gives her a narrative away from the team. A place where stories can be crafted around her bringing her closer to a fully realized heroine. If and when the relationship ends she will still have those nuggets of her story to use moving forward.

It's really crazy to me how critics and fans alike will say it's hard to picture Storm as a solo hero because she's defined by the team, but most don't get why it would be important to reference that she has a bigger profile outside of the team IN UNIVERSE.

The all girls camp from the #Fearless mini didn't call on Jean Grey or Emma Frost or Kate Pryde or Rogue or Betsy. They called on Storm because she has a global profile the same Sue Storm and Carol Danvers do. The Storm of #Fearless doesn't appear to be a woman to take a back seat to anyone. She's seen about bring a hurricane down on the heads of land developers because they're distributing sacred burial grounds. The same Storm that has no regard for her father's family does not seem like the same woman that would protect the ancient burial grounds of humans AND back a nation that's anti-human in sentiment. There's no cohesion, but Storm fans should looked at her home universe and not be critical?

[Cville]

How can you be the same after death? They download your essence in a cloned body and they act like it's not a huge matter. Exactly what is being downloaded? Do you remember your death?

Xaviers' got to be tampering with memories as well. No way that he leaves the moment of their deaths intact. And if they will be continually resurrected, it makes any death meaningless.

Or why not make multiple clones of Omega level mutants and just wipe out the enemy.

I don't think Storm should accept this notion of cloning and resurrection by Xavier.

Professor X has been updating every mutant Cerebro can track weekly. So at most you'll be missing a weeks worth of memories from the time you come back. It seems like he updated the teams before they left because Cyclops asked if they succeeded.

[butterflykyss]

It was a sham. An embarrassment. We were swindled and bamboozled. An insult tbqfh. I feel like it was written by Joann the Scammer herself. Upset me more than a lot other things regarding Ororo in recent memory. Just came off as disrespect by the X offices because every other X-men Monday has actually had even a shred of substance. It was trash. That is all.

not Joan the scammer!!! this post literally made me scream lolol. nothing but truth!

[powerpax]

Yes. I'm a fan of the relationship. It gives her a narrative away from the team. A place where stories can be crafted around her bringing her closer to a fully realized heroine. If and when the relationship ends she will still have those nuggets of her story to use moving forward.

I'm a fan of the relationship provided it stays in balance. Which it presently is doing. But people trying to game this out, thinking Storm will become the co-lead of BP in both comics and the movies are fooling themselves. Unless Lupita chooses to bounce that's not happening. So my focus remains what is central to the character.

The same Storm that has no regard for her father's family does not seem like the same woman that would protect the ancient burial grounds of humans AND back a nation that's anti-human in sentiment. There's no cohesion, but Storm fans should looked at her home universe and not be critical?

Well, in terms of IRL, pragmatically the fact is a lot more people read X-Men than they do Fearless, and always will. And as for in-universe, to me, Storm's priority will always be mutants and the X-Men first and that includes the nation of Krakoa, where I feel she already has a strong position established.

I don't take issue with Storm involving herself in geopolitical or superhero affairs outside the X-Men, or with the Panther or with reconnecting with her family's people and relations. I do take issue with any of that, in future, taking priority over the mutant nation, especially here and now. It's just not who she is and never has been. She can be in touch with different aspects of her social self, her cultural self, her political self, etc. without betraying core tenets of who she is. They can coexist. When they don't, fans sense it and tune out. Which is why the Hudlin forced marriage failed the first time, when they tried to waltz her out of the X-books during a mutant holocaust.

[LordAllMIghty]

the last time I recall chickens being sacrificed here was when wanted confirmation ororo was a goddess. if chickens must be slaughtered for ororo to be handled with respect in the maurauders title may the hadari yao order your steps and guide your hands so that no blood is wasted.

Sigh, alright. No trips to the dark side for me today.

Lmao LAM!!! Don’t go and do us dirty like that please haha. We must forgive each other, y’all know it’s in our nature as Storm fans to be petty!

Alright, alright...but if you guys need someone taken care of...Call me.

[terrancejameson]

There is no evidence that Storm fans are being played with 'shiny covers' (what, like foil? is this 1993?). But what will occur if the book isn't fairly judged when it prints and not before is the same vicious cycle of use and neglect every fan of any comic book character is familiar with, which is what I have outlined.



Ellis wrote good stories in his brief Astonishing run and I felt used Storm well. But it was always a limited run and it was not a Storm book. That's putting a metric on it that I don't think applies. I also don't know how that past run is relevant to a new ongoing book which features Storm. Frankly I think making her always 'the leader' too often relegates Storm to a bloodless, sexless archetypal stock position that very few writers outside Claremont know how to use her well in. So whether or not she is the leader of the Marauders doesn't interest me. All I care about is the moment when it prints and if I think it's any good. Also I'm more interested in her use in Hickman's book, whether she's there every month or not.

You're not saying anything many fans haven't already said. Nobody said she NEEDS to be a leader every time. But there needs to be clear reasoning for why she isn't. She's always been a person to lead the charge whether or not she's leading a team to battle or not.

Most Storm fans that have voiced their gripes and are waiting to see what the X-books churn out in regards to Storm, they want to see what kind of change she pushes.

Me personally, I don't see the Storm of the most recent Black Psnther or Fearless as the woman to sit back and allow her narrative to be written. The Storm I know would undoubtedly make her voice heard for the mutants of Africa as a leader on the council of 12. Some fans don't agree and that's fine. I will personally be purchasing the first issue of Marauders. Make no mistake, if I catch any hint of the weak, ineffective woman from Astonishing, WatX, AvX, IvX, or Gold then I'm out. And I'll wait it out on the sidelines with WindRider and LordAllMighty.

[terrancejameson]

I'm a fan of the relationship provided it stays in balance. Which it presently is doing. But people trying to game this out, thinking Storm will become the co-lead of BP in both comics and the movies are fooling themselves. Unless Lupita chooses to bounce that's not happening. So my focus remains what is central to the character.



Well, in terms of IRL, pragmatically the fact is a lot more people read X-Men than they do Fearless, and always will. And as for in-universe, to me, Storm's priority will always be mutants and the X-Men first and that includes the nation of Krakoa, where I feel she already has a strong position established.

I don't take issue with Storm involving herself in geopolitical or superhero affairs outside the X-Men, or with the Panther or with reconnecting with her family's people and relations. I do take issue with any of that, in future, taking priority over the mutant nation, especially here and now. It's just not who she is and never has been. She can be in touch with different aspects of her social self, her cultural self, her political self, etc. without betraying core tenets of who she is. They can coexist. When they don't, fans sense it and tune out. Which is why the Hudlin forced marriage failed the first time, when they tried to waltz her out of the X-books during a mutant holocaust.

I expect Storm to follow what SHE believes is right for mutants. It's really weird how Emma can use her expertise to advance the mutant cause when she's no actively on a team, but Storm has to be the perpetual X-man to prove she's down for mutants rights?

I would laugh, but the reasoning that pops up everytime Storm isn't seen regurgitating propaganda from the white mutant majority really trips me out.

Just so it's stated again in plain English- X-Men writers can come up with a narrative for Emma Frost that advances the mutant cause while she's not on an active X-Men team, but the same cannot be done for Storm, is that not a problem for you as 30+ year Storm fan? You can't see why certain fans are reluctant to drink the X-office Kool-aid when they can't provide a compelling narrative for Storm that makes sense of her life away from the team, but they can find one for Emma? Did everyone really miss that in the article about Marauders that neglected to mention Storm's leadership anywhere? Oh ok...

[butterflykyss]

I expect Storm to follow what SHE believes is right for mutants. It's really weird how Emma can use her expertise to advance the mutant cause when she's no actively on a team, but Storm has to be the perpetual X-man to prove she's down for mutants rights?

I would laugh, but the reasoning that pops up everytime Storm isn't seen regurgitating propaganda from the white mutant majority really trips me out.

Just so it's stated again in plain English- X-Men writers can come up with a narrative for Emma Frost that advances the mutant cause while she's not on an active X-Men team, but the same cannot be done for Storm, is that not a problem for you as 30+ year Storm fan? You can't see why certain fans are reluctant to drink the X-office Kool-aid when they can't provide a compelling narrative for Storm that makes sense of her life away from the team, but they can find one for Emma? Did everyone really miss that in the article about Marauders that neglected to mention Storm's leadership anywhere? Oh ok...

Sigh, alright. No trips to the dark side for me today.


Alright, alright...but if you guys need someone taken care of...Call me.

we need the chickens for ororo to not be regulated to lightning lass. make it happen please.

[LordAllMIghty]

I expect Storm to follow what SHE believes is right for mutants. It's really weird how Emma can use her expertise to advance the mutant cause when she's no actively on a team, but Storm has to be the perpetual X-man to prove she's down for mutants rights?

I would laugh, but the reasoning that pops up everytime Storm isn't seen regurgitating propaganda from the white mutant majority really trips me out.

Just so it's stated again in plain English- X-Men writers can come up with a narrative for Emma Frost that advances the mutant cause while she's not on an active X-Men team, but the same cannot be done for Storm, is that not a problem for you as 30+ year Storm fan? You can't see why certain fans are reluctant to drink the X-office Kool-aid when they can't provide a compelling narrative for Storm that makes sense of her life away from the team, but they can find one for Emma? Did everyone really miss that in the article about Marauders that neglected to mention Storm's leadership anywhere? Oh ok...

Truth...

we need the chickens for ororo to not be regulated to lightning lass. make it happen please.

I'm on it.

[powerpax]

Just so it's stated again in plain English- X-Men writers can come up with a narrative for Emma Frost that advances the mutant cause while she's not on an active X-Men team, but the same cannot be done for Storm, is that not a problem for you as 30+ year Storm fan? You can't see why certain fans are reluctant to drink the X-office Kool-aid when they can't provide a compelling narrative for Storm that makes sense of her life away from the team, but they can find one for Emma? Did everyone really miss that in the article about Marauders that neglected to mention Storm's leadership anywhere? Oh ok...

First, Emma isn't starring in other books - she's doing this stuff inside the X-Men franchise. She is also starring in X-Men and Marauders, so there is no evidence she is 'not on [an] active X-Men team.' (And no, fan spec that Emma won't be on Kitty's team does not count.) Likewise, I would rather see Ororo be central in her home franchise, the same franchise, than have to be transplanted to outside books and OOC focus, a la the 2000s, and have people write her as an accessory to a man and call it 'empowering the character in a new way'. It wasn't empowerment. It was a sham designed to get Reginald Hudlin and Quesada shine from media outlets with very little familiarity with Storm or the X-Men. The current use of her in BP is very different, but the issue of more exposure is separate from that and from that current run.

It's not a competition, of course, so I'm not seeing how bringing up Emma is relevant to this discussion - is it because you know I like Emma Frost, too? Am I supposed to account for that in some new and different way? Why? Emma and Ororo and who knows who else can all have key roles in the same franchise. Emma is an X-Man. Ororo is an X-Man. So the distinction you claim exists actually doesn't, unless you're suggesting that in order for me to support a similar role for Ororo I must support her going outside the X-Men franchise to obtain it. Except that is a false dichotomy that does not exist. If it doesn't have to exist for the white woman, who as outlined above is doing all this within the X-books, why does Ororo have to give up her place in the X-books - when she's been here longer - to have it too? I don't buy that frame and I never will.