Ororo Munroe: Storm Appreciation 2019

[terrancejameson]

we need the chickens for ororo to not be regulated to lightning lass. make it happen please.

Excuse me, my friend, but did I miss something? Are fans really in here complaining that other fans are apprehensive about the narrative push regarding Storm's portrayal in the X-books? But not after an article that supposedly highlights key attributes about what each member brings to the team. And certainly not after her leadership goes mysteriously unmentioned, her narrative completely vague, but Emma has more value outside of the team than Storm does with them? I'm happy for Emma because Hickman writes her as THAT CHICK. But am I really supposed to believe that Storm is so busy getting her back blown out that she can't realistically muster the gumption or the integrity to put her celebrity to use? If we're judging Storm by her inaction, she seems pretty fuckin vapid.

[terrancejameson]

First, Emma isn't starring in other books - she's doing this stuff inside the X-Men franchise. She is also starring in X-Men and Marauders, so there is no evidence she is 'not on [an] active X-Men team.' (And no, fan spec that Emma won't be on Kitty's team does not count.) Likewise, I would rather see Ororo be central in her home franchise, the same franchise, than have to be transplanted to outside books and OOC focus, a la the 2000s, and have people write her as an accessory to a man and call it 'empowering the character in a new way'. It wasn't empowerment. It was a sham designed to get Reginald Hudlin and Quesada shine from media outlets with very little familiarity with Storm or the X-Men. The current use of her in BP is very different, but the issue of more exposure is separate from that and from that current run.

It's not a competition, of course, so I'm not seeing how bringing up Emma is relevant to this discussion - is it because you know I like Emma Frost, too? Am I supposed to account for that in some new and different way? Why? Emma and Ororo and who knows who else can all have key roles in the same franchise. Emma is an X-Man. Ororo is an X-Man. So the distinction you claim exists actually doesn't, unless you're suggesting that in order for me to support a similar role for Ororo I must support her going outside the X-Men franchise to obtain it. Except that is a false dichotomy that does not exist. If it doesn't have to exist for the white woman, who as outlined above is doing all this within the X-books, why does Ororo have to give up her place in the X-books - when she's been here longer - to have it too? I don't buy that frame and I never will.

No. See here is where our problem begins. Just so you know I'm aware of the situation, should I redirect you to the thread about the X-women being the most popular Marvel females? Should I do it? You've been misinterpreting the things I write since then, but i can clarify my meaning against any assumptions you've made.

I referenced Emma Frost because it shows that even during her time going off the deep end and not being on an active X-Men team, she was still give an narrative that advanced the mutant cause. That's my point. If the X-books so chose, they could add weight to her lengthy absences and make it more beneficial to the mutants. The X-Men writers have that power and Coates has already given them that out bu having Storm say that she was attending to X-Men business.

I don't care that you like Emma Frost personally. I don't even know that much about you. What I do know is that you have a habit of over looking my issues with the portrayals of black women as I call it out, only to turn a blind eye to when white women are on the receiving end of a privilege NOT afforded to black women. That's why I brought up Emma Frost.

You don't need to tell me that Emma received these developments in the X-books. Of course she did. The information I used I got directly from the article gearing up for the Marauders release. It does not change the fact that Storm is still a celebrity. Fearless proves that she's a celebrity. But if you're telling me that a woman of her stature can only see herself as a love interest for T'Challa only and not an advocate for mutant rights, then I have to ask myself why that is. I sure you're not implying that there are different rules for black women than there are for white ones? That would be awfully feminist of you.

[powerpax]

As I said last page, Emma's not actually currently 'outside of the team,' not the Marauders or the X-Men or the X-books, which is where this entire false parallel falls apart about books none of us have read yet. Any claim otherwise is not accurately sourced. So I see no reason why Ororo should be shunted out of her home franchise or team she helped build in order to get shine just because the White Queen has some.

[Saturius]

Seriously. I don't know why anyone in this thread is shocked that some aren't optimistic about Storm's role in this new X era. Creative teams are always talking big, but rarely do they deliver. Schism, Messiah Complex, Regenesis, AVX, IVX etc etc. Every single one of those eras had higher ups talking up Storm. Some of the stories turned out ok, but Storm's character and relevance most certainly was wanting. If some of you all want to be positive, more power to you. I don't. I won't apologize for that, be talked down to because of it, nor feel bad about it. You're free to feel some type of way about it, but I personally don't care.

Hickman has to prove me wrong and so far I don't think he is. So far he's had her put on a water show and give a speech. It's still early but I am not impressed. And as has been mentioned, her not leading isn't a great sign he gets the character. It's funny how she's the only main character they feel comfortable at constantly dropping from said role. But whatever.

[terrancejameson]

Seriously. I don't know why anyone in this thread is shocked that some aren't optimistic about Storm's role in this new X era. Creative teams are always talking big, but rarely do they deliver. Schism, Messiah Complex, Regenesis, AVX, IVX etc etc. Every single one of those eras had higher ups talking up Storm. Some of the stories turned out ok, but Storm's character and relevance most certainly was wanting. If some of you all want to be positive, more power to you. I don't. I won't apologize for that, be talked down to because of it, nor feel bad about it. You're free to feel some type of way about it, but I personally don't care.

Hickman has to prove me wrong and so far I don't think he is. So far he's had her put on a water show and give a speech. It's still early but I am not impressed. And as has been mentioned, her not leading isn't a great sign he gets the character. It's funny how she's the only main character they feel comfortable at constantly dropping from said role. But whatever.

Exactly. Exactly this post!

[stormphoenix]

How come nobody brought up the fact that Storm created a Hurricane and Tornadoes on the Moon. In BP#16???

[Silver Fang]

Seriously. I don't know why anyone in this thread is shocked that some aren't optimistic about Storm's role in this new X era. Creative teams are always talking big, but rarely do they deliver. Schism, Messiah Complex, Regenesis, AVX, IVX etc etc. Every single one of those eras had higher ups talking up Storm. Some of the stories turned out ok, but Storm's character and relevance most certainly was wanting. If some of you all want to be positive, more power to you. I don't. I won't apologize for that, be talked down to because of it, nor feel bad about it. You're free to feel some type of way about it, but I personally don't care.

Hickman has to prove me wrong and so far I don't think he is. So far he's had her put on a water show and give a speech. It's still early but I am not impressed. And as has been mentioned, her not leading isn't a great sign he gets the character. It's funny how she's the only main character they feel comfortable at constantly dropping from said role. But whatever.

I lurk here, but bravo to this post. It needs to be sticky'd. Again some characters have better luck than others, but some like Storm fell off the wagon a while back & hasn't gotten back on it yet. But when he point out how we're displeased or rightfully say something about what we feel is negative portryal, posters will troll or have nerd to condescend to us because we're telling it like it is in that we are not impressed with what we've seen from favs.

I'm the same. In order for me to be happy about a favs. depiction, there has to be something to be happy about, and when the character has a history of sub-par writing, I have to be proven wrong that they don't or will not suck. And Hickman has not done that for one of my favs. either. But I'm catching heat from a few posters because I dare to say the character should be written better & Hickman isn't doing it. For what we've seen.

And 1 bit of preview art shows the Marauders team fighting, and Storm is getting kicked in the stomach. Doesn't paint a good picture when that's one of the first showings of her we had for the new era.

But those of us with struggling favorites who don't fall for hype or what could look like a bread crumb get called pessimistic. Well when we get reasons to be happy & optimistic we will. You say Storm has sucked around 15 years. One of my favs. has been on the decline for most of 16. So I know the feeling of never being excited for anything they're in & needed concrete proof that they won't suck before I look forward to the best.

[powerpax]

NI referenced Emma Frost because it shows that even during her time going off the deep end and not being on an active X-Men team, she was still give an narrative that advanced the mutant cause.

Oh, I get it. You were talking about the Dawn of X/Marauders push in the current run, but as we've established Emma is not actually off any X-teams, you're now trying to hopscotch and present the terrible X-Men vs. Inhumans period (where, again, Emma was predominantly only in the X-books - but okay, let's play this out!) as some great time for Emma that Ororo should somehow emulate?

The only reason I can conclude for you to shift to this is because you've discovered that in talking about the here and now you don't have an argument.

What I do know is that you have a habit of over looking my issues with the portrayals of black women as I call it out, only to turn a blind eye to when white women are on the receiving end of a privilege NOT afforded to black women.

Frankly I don't think about you enough to know your issues well enough to overlook them. What I do know is that your conclusion seems to be that in order to get what Emma Frost has, Ororo must leave the X-books which are her proud territory. So who's arguing for whose privilege first here?

Just admit you have a thesis you're partial to, which is Ororo divested from these books to get shine. You're entitled to prefer that. Not everyone has to agree with it, and we're allowed to cite facts.

But if you're telling me that a woman of her stature can only see herself as a love interest for T'Challa only and not an advocate for mutant rights

Not worth commenting on, as my quotes on just who regarded Ororo as that speak for themselves, and it sure wasn't any of us.

[Cville]

How come nobody brought up the fact that Storm created a Hurricane and Tornadoes on the Moon. In BP#16???

A moon base in another galaxy with an Earth like atmosphere. It was talked about all day last weekend.

[stormphoenix]

A moon base in another galaxy with an Earth like atmosphere. It was talked about all day last weekend.

Hmmm didn’t seem like it. But ok.

[powerpax]

Seriously. I don't know why anyone in this thread is shocked that some aren't optimistic about Storm's role in this new X era.

I really don't care whether people are or aren't optimistic. But I do know what will happen if people say they won't buy Marauders if, for example, Ororo isn't the leader. That detail is really not as important to me as how she's used, and I think most of us agree on that. Most of us want the same thing. What I do have a problem with is all sorts of false constructs like, 'well, Emma Frost isn't on a team [correction: she is tho] and she's front and center [addendum: in the X-books] so Ororo should go somewhere else to get that too'? Well, why the hell should Ororo do that? She built this city.

As far as my latest scuffle with someone else, this is a lot of hot air about something that really isn't about Marauders at all. It's a deeper difference of opinion. Which is fine, but isn't really about that upcoming book.

[Cville]

Hmmm didn’t seem like it. But ok.

It can't be Earths moon. Only thing there is the "Blue area" and maybe the Watchers ' home.

[terrancejameson]

Oh, I get it. You were talking about the Dawn of X/Marauders push in the current run, but as we've established Emma is not actually off any X-teams, you're now trying to hopscotch and present the terrible X-Men vs. Inhumans period (where, again, Emma was predominantly only in the X-books - but okay, let's play this out!) as some great time for Emma that Ororo should somehow emulate?

The only reason I can conclude for you to shift to this is because you've discovered that in talking about the here and now you don't have an argument.



Frankly I don't think about you enough to know your issues well enough to overlook them. What I do know is that your conclusion seems to be that in order to get what Emma Frost has, Ororo must leave the X-books which are her proud territory. So who's arguing for whose privilege first here?

Just admit you have a thesis you're partial to, which is Ororo divested from these books to get shine. You're entitled to prefer that. Not everyone has to agree with it, and we're allowed to cite facts.



Not worth commenting on, as my quotes on just who regarded Ororo as that speak for themselves, and it sure wasn't any of us.

Lol you sure have cited facts. Facts that only serve to prove my thesis. I specifically referenced the article that gave a short synopsis of what each character brings to the new team. I doubt know why you weren't quick enough to get with the program. Even when Emma went off the deep end and it looked like she was returning to villainy (away from the team) X-Men writers still found a way to turn her absence from an X-Men team into a move that advanced the mutant cause. You are such a great feminist. Quite true to form actually. Every time I start talking about this black woman and her relationship to the X-Men books and there narrative, here you came with your "all women matter" posters. Why do you even bother? I feel like your whole purpose is to tell me that I'm imaging these things about this fictional black woman, but other people clearly see it. So, again, why do you even bother?

[stormphoenix]

It can't be Earths moon. Only thing there is the "Blue area" and maybe the Watchers ' home.

I assumed it was on our Moon. Due to the fact TChalla came back with his group. I didn’t see it stated that Storm was in another Galaxy. I saw “Moon Base” so I assumed it was Earth’s Moon that Storm came in through the portal.

[powerpax]

Every time I start talking about this black woman and her relationship to the X-Men books and there narrative

That's exactly what I'm talking about, actually. I don't think you're 'imagining' anything and I've never said so. I agree, this black woman's narrative is a real issue. So, as I've asked you at least three times: Why does Ororo, the black woman, have to leave the X-books to further her own narrative with the same agency and spotlight as white woman Emma Frost? You tell me, I'm honestly asking. Because right now I'm the one talking about Ororo. You're only talking about me.