Why do some people think Marvel Studios can do no wrong?

[Conn Seanery]

Look I'm not trying to be the bad guy and I understand why people like the mcu or even why they give them a pass I just don't see why people act like it's so amazing

If you understand those things then the last part shouldn't be confusing you.

[Smoov-E]

Look I'm not trying to be the bad guy and I understand why people like the mcu or even why they give them a pass I just don't see why people act like it's so amazing

I say the same thing about the Magneto/Xavier/Mystique/Wolverine feat. X-Men movies

[Dboi2001]

I say the same thing about the Magneto/Xavier/Mystique/Wolverine feat. X-Men movies

It's not about those people it's about the x men as a whole. Hell even then the most popular x stories revolve around Xavier and Magento and Wolverine is by far the most popular X Men

The X Men movies have heart and good characters. Each character is decently written and has their moment. They feel like people. In Avengers they're just all bland cardboard cut outs. Also GotG2 focused more on Quill but I bet you loves it

[Rogue Star]

Oh goodness. Only Selene would go on and on and on about why the X-Men movies aren't praised instead of the MCU movies.

[SpiderClops]

The first rule of fight club is ...there are no rules. did you understand that part in the movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_comedy

You do realize black comedic moments are more restricted in movies than the average harder tone movies i.e X-Men or Unbreakable.

You do realize that you're the only one who brought up Black Comedy nonsense right?

[Jaddor]

Isn't that what you are doing in the first place, hate on the MCU?

But the visuals and action for the X-Men seem to pale in comparion to the MCU and DCEU. When X-Men and X2 came out I really enjoyed those movies. Over the years they seemed to age poorly and I found myself enjoying the other CBM a lot more.

2017 showed a lot of franchise fatigue. I don't think DP will escape that, especially when Apocalypse underwhelmed.

Unless you are experiencing a curios case of Benjamin Button effect then X2 has aged poorly . X2 is the perfect movie that once said not all Marvel movies are thinly plotted or are action comedies with mediocre bad dudes. I will pick Nightcrawler duking things out in the white house anyway of the week to any MCU scene b'cause the action was intense and did not come off as cartoonish as the MCU action moments. MCU action moments tend to be soulless.its more about having a cool moment than a war moment. MCU fanboys cannot appreciate the craft of film. all the mcu movies are gimmick action comedies shot in the same way. they all look cartoonish and are a poor version of how James Cameron would handle a big special effect moment. Avengers has aged more poorly than X2, there is little depth in Avengers. Dboi2001 made strong points, you cannot ignore how thinly plot and gimmicky those Marvel movies are. The action in those movies are for fun effect, the actions in X2 are for stake effects. What I appreciate about X2 is the film cuts deeper than the average MCU movie. films that aged poorly age poorly because the plot does not give you enough bone to chew. those are your marvel movies.

[Sutekh]

The X Men movies have heart and good characters. Each character is decently written and has their moment. They feel like people.

So Madrox and the Juggernaut and Callisto in that execrable third X-Men movie are better written and 'have their moment' and 'feel like people' compared to say, how the Winter Soldier or the Falcon or other secondary characters are treated in MCU movies? Psylocke and Caliban and Storm and Nightcrawler from the Apocalypse movie had 'heart' despite barely any speaking lines, and being nothing like their comic book versions, compared to, say, Zemo or Black Panther or Ant-Man other, again, secondary characters, in Civil War.

Pshaw.

Fox has some great characterization, with Logan and Magneto. In the movie Logan, Laura is also great. Deadpool is just hands-down amazing. But there are a ton of terrible choices (Halle Berry as Storm, whatever the hell that Viper person was in Wolverine), and some of it is casting, some of it is acting, and some of it is writing (I thought Marsden was a great Cyclops, and yet, he's dead, I thought Ashmore was a great Iceman, but he was written out, and I thought Paquin was a great Rogue, and she was also dumped. I also thought Rebecca Romijin was a better Mystique than this new Hunger Games kid, but I'm apparently in the minority). And there are indeed some great scenes (Nightcrawler in the White House, mentioned above, the fight with the Sentinels where Blink is teleporting all over the place, in Days of Future Past, and then some scenes that, to me, are inexplicably popular, like every time Quicksilver does that boring Matrix run effect where time stops and music plays and his cheeks flap like Dumbo's wings, and I roll my eyes at how horrible it all is while other people cheer.)

Marvel's not perfect, but it's doing *rightly* a hell of a lot better than Fox. I'm way more of an X-Man fan than an Avengers fan, and yet *some* of the Marvel films have blown away *most* of the Fox films. (I love Avengers 1, Cap 1, 2 and 3, Iron Man 1 and 2, Guardians 1 and 2 and Ant-Man, and don't really like Iron Man 3, Thor 1 or 2 or Avengers 2. I love Deadpool, like Logan and the first X-Men movie, and like some elements of First Class, the rest, eh. It's never as simply as 'I like all Marvel movies' or 'I hate all Fox movies' because if I had to pick only one, it would be Deadpool, a Fox movie, to watch over and over!).

And it's not about 'getting the characters right.' I just want them to be *good.* Teenage Negasonic Warhead is *nothing* like the comic book version. She has Cannonball's powers! And yet I loved her.

[Smoov-E]

It's not about those people it's about the x men as a whole. Hell even then the most popular x stories revolve around Xavier and Magento and Wolverine is by far the most popular X Men

The X Men movies have heart and good characters. Each character is decently written and has their moment. They feel like people. In Avengers they're just all bland cardboard cut outs. Also GotG2 focused more on Quill but I bet you loves it

The movies are about those four but originally three, the rest of the X-Men are wallpaper or canon fodder, unless you're a fan of those four those movies are dumping on your fav character if that character is even in it at all. Cyclops and Storm are arguably what are viewed as THE X-Men but going by the movies they aren't worth while enough to get a on screen death or more than three lines a movie

And GOTG vol 2 focused on Quill, Rocket, Yandu, Gamorra and Nebula but unlike the X-Men movies didn't forget that Mantis, Drax and Groot are still there and as loaded as Civil War was everybody got a moment to shine and had something to do

[DJ1107]

Each character is decently written and has their moment. They feel like people. In Avengers they're just all bland cardboard cut outs.

Ah yes the characters of the X-men films have been written so well. Like Colossus who just stands there & does punches a guy now & again or in the case of DP was an overly comical goody-good. Or Storm who spent most of her time in X2 Flying a Plane. Or what about Gambit defining moment of blowing up a piece of debris from crushing the guy that can survive anything. Angel had a good moment to of fooling everyone in thinking he was a main character of X3 & is only in the movie for like 5 minutes. Cyclops getting cucked & dying was good. Angel Salvador betraying people she barely knew for people she barely knew & Darwin dying were too. Truly the sign of better written characters.

[Jaddor]

Dboi2001:

While Deadpool and Logan are great... The rest of X-men are more generic.

Maybe they are overall better?

X-men were thanks to X-men TAS and Evo. X1 and X2 were ahead. X-men later became worse.

Don't watch them and be happy then

Comparing X-men Apo and Gotg?
That's joke right? X-men fights are more clean and boring... and cheap drama of killing characters who didn't say a word or be ressurected in next movie... wow

Marvel has a lot of generic movies from both Marvel and Fox but the least generic Marvel movies are the X-Men movies. The newer films, DOFP, First Class and Logan cut deeper than the thinly plotted Marvel movies. If not for these films, all Marvel movies will be a one way streak regardless of which studios makes them.

X-men movies tend to flip superhero films in on its head and push the boundaries from what is expected in your superhero films. Marvel subscribes to the most generic formula of comic films. DOFP takes you to war, Avengers takes you to fun house. Avengers was fun but soulless, DOFP was gripping and thoughtful.

I accept Resurrection in movies as long as the the stakes were high and it was earned in the end. If DOFP used the marvel action-comedy tone or did not show just how much chaos and darkness the future world was in, I would have hated the Resurrection and agreed it was cheap but the resurrection was earned in DOFP. Its better than the MCU movies and the lifeless funny deaths. In MCU most of the death are cheapened due to the characters making jokes or spitting out one liners before they die. Agent Coulson, QuickSilver, Ivan Vanko. The deaths in MCU are meaninglessness and packs no punches.

There is more criticism of MCU than any other comic films out there. You will find more ...MCU is generic out there than X-Men is generic. Didn't John Landis not say MCU movies are shit? You can't get more public criticism than that.

Before Logan and Deadpool, X-Men movies were at the edge of rated R due to the brutality of the fight scenes, check your facts on clean and safe since MCU is the one with all the toned down restrictions when it comes to the use of violence.

Every X-Men fight is brutal and painful. its not fun to watch an X-Men fight. MCU fights are clean and safe, they have fun in fights. Spiderman did not throw a single punch in Homecoming unlike Maguire's Spiderman who was able to win his battles by true grit and physical determination.

GOTG fights are harmless due to the tone of the movies and the jokes. This was the movie Peter breaks into a song and shows his dance moves? Generic and the MCU deserve to be used in the same sentience. X-Men movies are so far removed from that narrative.

[Dboi2001]

So Madrox and the Juggernaut and Callisto in that execrable third X-Men movie are better written and 'have their moment' and 'feel like people' compared to say, how the Winter Soldier or the Falcon or other secondary characters are treated in MCU movies? Psylocke and Caliban and Storm and Nightcrawler from the Apocalypse movie had 'heart' despite barely any speaking lines, and being nothing like their comic book versions, compared to, say, Zemo or Black Panther or Ant-Man other, again, secondary characters, in Civil War.

Pshaw.

Fox has some great characterization, with Logan and Magneto. In the movie Logan, Laura is also great. Deadpool is just hands-down amazing. But there are a ton of terrible choices (Halle Berry as Storm, whatever the hell that Viper person was in Wolverine), and some of it is casting, some of it is acting, and some of it is writing (I thought Marsden was a great Cyclops, and yet, he's dead, I thought Ashmore was a great Iceman, but he was written out, and I thought Paquin was a great Rogue, and she was also dumped. I also thought Rebecca Romijin was a better Mystique than this new Hunger Games kid, but I'm apparently in the minority). And there are indeed some great scenes (Nightcrawler in the White House, mentioned above, the fight with the Sentinels where Blink is teleporting all over the place, in Days of Future Past, and then some scenes that, to me, are inexplicably popular, like every time Quicksilver does that boring Matrix run effect where time stops and music plays and his cheeks flap like Dumbo's wings, and I roll my eyes at how horrible it all is while other people cheer.)

Marvel's not perfect, but it's doing *rightly* a hell of a lot better than Fox. I'm way more of an X-Man fan than an Avengers fan, and yet *some* of the Marvel films have blown away *most* of the Fox films. (I love Avengers 1, Cap 1, 2 and 3, Iron Man 1 and 2, Guardians 1 and 2 and Ant-Man, and don't really like Iron Man 3, Thor 1 or 2 or Avengers 2. I love Deadpool, like Logan and the first X-Men movie, and like some elements of First Class, the rest, eh. It's never as simply as 'I like all Marvel movies' or 'I hate all Fox movies' because if I had to pick only one, it would be Deadpool, a Fox movie, to watch over and over!).

And it's not about 'getting the characters right.' I just want them to be *good.* Teenage Negasonic Warhead is *nothing* like the comic book version. She has Cannonball's powers! And yet I loved her.

1. X3 was pretty mediocre but the first two were great

2. Falcon, Zemo, Ant Man and Black Panther were all horribly characterized in Civil War. CW side characters were all extremely bland and had awful motivations like Scott and Clint abandoning their families

3. I never said EVERY single character was perfect. Pyslocke and Nightcrawler were pretty pointless in Apocalypse but then again this is only the beginning

4. You basically want every single X Man to be perfectly developed and have equal screen time but that's ridiculous you can't expect every character to get the same treatment in a 2 hour movie or include every Mutant and have them have a super amazing role like Calliban. It's like me complaining Ant Man being minimized in the MCU or making Yondu really minor. Like I know a lot of people didn't like changing DoFP from Kitty to Logan but the time piece wouldn't work for the what 20 something Kitty to go back to a tone when she wasn't even born. Similar Age of Ultron had to change his creation to be Stark because having Hank just show up out of nowhere would be contrived

5. They're changing the cast now because to be blunt the old cast is getting old and had their run but now is time to have fresh new faces

I don't get why you love the MCU so much. Ant Man was horribly paced, thin characters, and just a half baked Edgar Wright movie that dissolved to another generic comedy yet it's great apparently while X Men and X2 are seen as classics

I'm an Avengers fan over X Men but I like the X Men movies better because the characters in the movies alone are better. When Avengers was announced they changed a lot of stuff I didn't mind my issue is how thin and bad the characters are. Even after every phase 1 movie I only cared about Tony. The rest I didn't care for at all and Avengers didn't do anything for me. You say Collasus just stood around and did nothing but Thor was no different. He existed solely to give exposition about Loki and the teseract. The hulk is just a dumb monster and nothing else and Banner can just control it because plot convience. And if X Men is the Wolverine show then Avengers is the Iron Man show because he got the most screen time, the most relevance, and most important. I mean what separates AoU from DoFP? Hell spmeone here mentioned that BW is no different than Jean yet apparently Jean is shit while Widow is great. Avengers had no interesting characters and no one had an arc and honestly Coulsen's 'death' was laughable. Up until then all he was was Shield guy yet people cried for him? I'm sorry what? What about him was so great? Because he mentioned being a Cap fanboy once? Again say what you want about X Men they didn't take a totally pointless side character and put him on a pedestal

Why don't you give me ten reasons why you liked Avengers more and I'll give ten reasons why X Men is better

[Dboi2001]

Ah yes the characters of the X-men films have been written so well. Like Colossus who just stands there & does punches a guy now & again or in the case of DP was an overly comical goody-good. Or Storm who spent most of her time in X2 Flying a Plane. Or what about Gambit defining moment of blowing up a piece of debris from crushing the guy that can survive anything. Angel had a good moment to of fooling everyone in thinking he was a main character of X3 & is only in the movie for like 5 minutes. Cyclops getting cucked & dying was good. Angel Salvador betraying people she barely knew for people she barely knew & Darwin dying were too. Truly the sign of better written characters.

Yes how could we forget that quippy black friend of that hero or that quippy funny everyman. Yeah sure mention 4 SIDE CHARACTERS and act like they're main players

Also Storm had more arc in the third movie than all the female characters and even became the head mistress of Xavier school

[Dboi2001]

The movies are about those four but originally three, the rest of the X-Men are wallpaper or canon fodder, unless you're a fan of those four those movies are dumping on your fav character if that character is even in it at all. Cyclops and Storm are arguably what are viewed as THE X-Men but going by the movies they aren't worth while enough to get a on screen death or more than three lines a movie

And GOTG vol 2 focused on Quill, Rocket, Yandu, Gamorra and Nebula but unlike the X-Men movies didn't forget that Mantis, Drax and Groot are still there and as loaded as Civil War was everybody got a moment to shine and had something to do

No they're not. X Men has anyways been about the different ideologies. Just because Wolverine got slightly more focus doesn't mean it's all about him. What about all the focus Iron Man gets? He had the most screen time between both Avengers, most relevant, he is the one who gets the vision, he's the one who creates Ultron, and in a way created the Avengers or even made/introduced them or his father helped create Captain America and Stark tech was used for the Hulk Experiment and of course he makes Vision with Jarvis and becomes Spider-Man's mentor

No gotg was all about Quill. I don't even know what Rockets arc was. Gamora and Nebula had one scene. Drax and Mantis did nothing. They could've brought up Drax killing Ronan but not being stratified but nope. Civil War side characters were all pointless and outside of wtf moments were just fluff who contributed nothing to the plot. Clint and Scott abandoned their families and blindly follow Cap with no evidence and this friendship thing was bs

Ps are you really gonna say Cyclops is your favorite X Men? In the 90s Wolverine was the most popular by far so don't act like Cyclops was always relevant

[Dboi2001]

So Madrox and the Juggernaut and Callisto in that execrable third X-Men movie are better written and 'have their moment' and 'feel like people' compared to say, how the Winter Soldier or the Falcon or other secondary characters are treated in MCU movies? Psylocke and Caliban and Storm and Nightcrawler from the Apocalypse movie had 'heart' despite barely any speaking lines, and being nothing like their comic book versions, compared to, say, Zemo or Black Panther or Ant-Man other, again, secondary characters, in Civil War.

Pshaw.

Fox has some great characterization, with Logan and Magneto. In the movie Logan, Laura is also great. Deadpool is just hands-down amazing. But there are a ton of terrible choices (Halle Berry as Storm, whatever the hell that Viper person was in Wolverine), and some of it is casting, some of it is acting, and some of it is writing (I thought Marsden was a great Cyclops, and yet, he's dead, I thought Ashmore was a great Iceman, but he was written out, and I thought Paquin was a great Rogue, and she was also dumped. I also thought Rebecca Romijin was a better Mystique than this new Hunger Games kid, but I'm apparently in the minority). And there are indeed some great scenes (Nightcrawler in the White House, mentioned above, the fight with the Sentinels where Blink is teleporting all over the place, in Days of Future Past, and then some scenes that, to me, are inexplicably popular, like every time Quicksilver does that boring Matrix run effect where time stops and music plays and his cheeks flap like Dumbo's wings, and I roll my eyes at how horrible it all is while other people cheer.)

Marvel's not perfect, but it's doing *rightly* a hell of a lot better than Fox. I'm way more of an X-Man fan than an Avengers fan, and yet *some* of the Marvel films have blown away *most* of the Fox films. (I love Avengers 1, Cap 1, 2 and 3, Iron Man 1 and 2, Guardians 1 and 2 and Ant-Man, and don't really like Iron Man 3, Thor 1 or 2 or Avengers 2. I love Deadpool, like Logan and the first X-Men movie, and like some elements of First Class, the rest, eh. It's never as simply as 'I like all Marvel movies' or 'I hate all Fox movies' because if I had to pick only one, it would be Deadpool, a Fox movie, to watch over and over!).

And it's not about 'getting the characters right.' I just want them to be *good.* Teenage Negasonic Warhead is *nothing* like the comic book version. She has Cannonball's powers! And yet I loved her.

This is basically you if our rules were reversed

Oh yeah because as we knew Quicksilver in the MCU death was so impactful it wasn't even mentioned in Civil War or how about Thor's dumb friends who you can't even remember how about that really great charge Coulsen who just shows up in phase one to promote Avengers then dies in a pointless death. How about Hank Pym being sidelined despite being a finding avenger and Janet being dead and given the most disrespectful explanation with Scott cracking a joke at it? How about the original Guardians barely being in the movies or Yondu being in Guardians 1 for about 5 minutes and then heels Peter save Xandar because plot. What about Thor doing nothing for both Avengers movies and just stands around? What about that annoying Mexican stereotype guy or those generic soldiers in First Avenger? What about all the interchangeable generic female love interests? What about the Ancient One or Mandarin? None of them are interesting or memorable despite being kinda important and interesting in the comics

Tell me why do you think all of what I mentioned is fine for MCU but not X Men? So what of Collasus wasn't used that much in X2 so what if Calliban was barely in Apocalypse and Logan I could name dozens of changes in the MCU and how they took a lot of major characters and wasted then but you wouldn't care because Marvel can do no wrong can they. None of the Avengers are good and the side characters besides Iron Man and Cap are down right awful yet you're okay with them and again Iron Man is the Wolverine of the MCU yet that's fine. Also as for Ja Law Mystique fyi she gets less screen time and as for her being a major part in Apocalypse that was like the comics

[Jaddor]

So Madrox and the Juggernaut and Callisto in that execrable third X-Men movie are better written and 'have their moment' and 'feel like people' compared to say, how the Winter Soldier or the Falcon or other secondary characters are treated in MCU movies? Psylocke and Caliban and Storm and Nightcrawler from the Apocalypse movie had 'heart' despite barely any speaking lines, and being nothing like their comic book versions, compared to, say, Zemo or Black Panther or Ant-Man other, again, secondary characters, in Civil War.

Pshaw.

Fox has some great characterization, with Logan and Magneto. In the movie Logan, Laura is also great. Deadpool is just hands-down amazing. But there are a ton of terrible choices (Halle Berry as Storm, whatever the hell that Viper person was in Wolverine), and some of it is casting, some of it is acting, and some of it is writing (I thought Marsden was a great Cyclops, and yet, he's dead, I thought Ashmore was a great Iceman, but he was written out, and I thought Paquin was a great Rogue, and she was also dumped. I also thought Rebecca Romijin was a better Mystique than this new Hunger Games kid, but I'm apparently in the minority). And there are indeed some great scenes (Nightcrawler in the White House, mentioned above, the fight with the Sentinels where Blink is teleporting all over the place, in Days of Future Past, and then some scenes that, to me, are inexplicably popular, like every time Quicksilver does that boring Matrix run effect where time stops and music plays and his cheeks flap like Dumbo's wings, and I roll my eyes at how horrible it all is while other people cheer.)

Marvel's not perfect, but it's doing *rightly* a hell of a lot better than Fox. I'm way more of an X-Man fan than an Avengers fan, and yet *some* of the Marvel films have blown away *most* of the Fox films. (I love Avengers 1, Cap 1, 2 and 3, Iron Man 1 and 2, Guardians 1 and 2 and Ant-Man, and don't really like Iron Man 3, Thor 1 or 2 or Avengers 2. I love Deadpool, like Logan and the first X-Men movie, and like some elements of First Class, the rest, eh. It's never as simply as 'I like all Marvel movies' or 'I hate all Fox movies' because if I had to pick only one, it would be Deadpool, a Fox movie, to watch over and over!).

And it's not about 'getting the characters right.' I just want them to be *good.* Teenage Negasonic Warhead is *nothing* like the comic book version. She has Cannonball's powers! And yet I loved her.

MCU has one major advantage over the x-men. most of the characters in the MCU have multiple personal films or two characters in personal films. Its not the right comparison IMO. The team up MCU movies- Avengers, Age of Ultron and Civil War suffers worse than the X-men movies since the avengers movies have formulaic plots. X-Men 4 handled the large cast better than any of the Avengers movies. Not only did that film give every character something to do, it made their personal moments stay above the use of their powers for action. The thinly plotted avengers movies makes the characters show up to fight and nothing tangible to work with.