Dick Grayson: Robin, Nightwing, Batman, Agent of Spyral Appreciation 2019

[Rac7d*]

Who is Donna Troy? and Batman and Robin are the first that pop up to me.

Lol I was just rereading who is Donna Troy I was hoping for some other story’s. I assume after the 90s that ends since that becomes Tim defining trait and we can’t step on any toes

[Godlike13]

Ya, Dixon started his thing then.

[Rac7d*]

Ya, Dixon started his thing then.

With Dixon I just remember all the colorful and unique assasassins and his acrobatics being used

[Agent 37]

Haven't posted on this forum for a long time, and dropped Nightwing at the start of the Ric ordeal. But I lurk in every now and then to see what fans are excited/disappointed about and mostly to see if the direction of Nightwing has changed for the better. Seems to be the same old same old.

On that note, would an extreme direction change in Dick Grayson's character be more welcome than the constant re-used storylines, and under appreciated role that Nightwing seems stuck in? Would fans be happy if (for example) the current Ric persona was all a ruse, and Grayson is the man behind the Leviathon mask? It's a reach I know, but depending on how Event Leviathon plays out, would fans be upset if Dick went a different route to try and help make a difference?

[Godlike13]

I’d be open to it. Hell I was open to Ric. Like you said though, it depends how it plays out. Like what does it lead to, what kind of creators does it land, and what kind of stories would we get.

[Ascended]

On that note, would an extreme direction change in Dick Grayson's character be more welcome than the constant re-used storylines, and under appreciated role that Nightwing seems stuck in? Would fans be happy if (for example) the current Ric persona was all a ruse, and Grayson is the man behind the Leviathon mask? It's a reach I know, but depending on how Event Leviathon plays out, would fans be upset if Dick went a different route to try and help make a difference?

I'm open to the idea depending on how things shake out. I'm not interested in seeing Dick turn into a villain, but I'm definitely down with him getting back into the spy game. **If** Leviathan turns out to be something other than an evil organization, and Dick's motivations made some sense and his character wasn't butchered, hell yeah I'd be down with it. It might seem strange to see someone like Dick going in a more morally gray direction but I think there's a way to get him into that position without sacrificing his ethics. It'd certainly provide plenty of inner conflict for him, that's for sure.

Honestly, I'd rather see DC try new things with Nightwing (whether spy related or not) than stick him back in the same old status quo where he fights Blockbuster in Bludhaven. I don't hate the city or Desmond like some posters here do, in fact I'm fairly fond of Blockbuster and I think the problem with Bludhaven is the writers, not the city itself. But I think Dick's strengths as a character lie beyond the standard superhero trappings and limiting him to a single city is neglecting his ties to the wider DCU.

Experimentation is better than stagnation. And this is comics, there isn't a bad direction that can't be undone and swept under the rug.

[Ascended]

I’d be open to it. Hell I was open to Ric. Like you said though, it depends how it plays out. Like what does it lead to, what kind of creators does it land, and what kind of stories would we get.

Exactly. Ric has been awful. I'm not even reading the book and I can smell how bad it stinks. But I'm happy to give different directions a shot. I gave Grayson a shot and adored it. Ric....not so much, but I'm happy that DC tried something new (not thrilled that it's still going on despite being a failure tho). I want Nightwing to elevate in the DCU. I want him to have better sales and a bigger role in the world. And I dont think he's going to get there with his usual status quo.

[Agent 37]

I'm open to the idea depending on how things shake out. I'm not interested in seeing Dick turn into a villain, but I'm definitely down with him getting back into the spy game. **If** Leviathan turns out to be something other than an evil organization, and Dick's motivations made some sense and his character wasn't butchered, hell yeah I'd be down with it. It might seem strange to see someone like Dick going in a more morally gray direction but I think there's a way to get him into that position without sacrificing his ethics. It'd certainly provide plenty of inner conflict for him, that's for sure.

Honestly, I'd rather see DC try new things with Nightwing (whether spy related or not) than stick him back in the same old status quo where he fights Blockbuster in Bludhaven. I don't hate the city or Desmond like some posters here do, in fact I'm fairly fond of Blockbuster and I think the problem with Bludhaven is the writers, not the city itself. But I think Dick's strengths as a character lie beyond the standard superhero trappings and limiting him to a single city is neglecting his ties to the wider DCU.

Experimentation is better than stagnation. And this is comics, there isn't a bad direction that can't be undone and swept under the rug.

This is similar to my train of thought. I too do not want Dick to go villain, not in the least. But *If* Event Leviathon ended proving the elimination of the other self serving organizations was somehow for the greater good, and the the motive to pursue this route by Grayson was sincere and effective, I could find myself into a character shift in that way. I do not know the implications of the Leviathon attacks, and if the casualties etc., would seem to steep of a price to justify these means, but getting a rebuilt, streamlined corner of the DC universe (even if it was behind the scenes in a espionage "Grayson-esque" book) would give fans a new direction and purpose for Dick that has been lacking for some time now. It could finally serve as a way for Dick to elevate his stature in the DC universe by proving his intelligence and ability to read other heroes and villains, and stay one step ahead of them. Dick's unique perspective of having been on both sides of the fence as a masked hero, and involved in the espionage aspects of DC would give him the ability to be involved in all aspects of ongoing stories throughout the whole publisher as a behind the scenes operative serving a new greater good.

Just an idea I had been tossing around for a while now, and like I stated before it is quite a reach. But the status quo hasn't hit it out of the park for some time now.

[Konja7]

Lol I was just rereading who is Donna Troy I was hoping for some other story’s. I assume after the 90s that ends since that becomes Tim defining trait and we can’t step on any toes

Yeah. I've understood there seems to be a "division" of abilities between the Robins. Tim is the "smart" and the detective skills were included in this trait.

However, when Dick becomes Batman, he should be a detective again (as Batman should be the "smart"), so he recover this ability. Of course, he would lose this again when he returned to be Nightwing.

[Restingvoice]

Haven't posted on this forum for a long time, and dropped Nightwing at the start of the Ric ordeal. But I lurk in every now and then to see what fans are excited/disappointed about and mostly to see if the direction of Nightwing has changed for the better. Seems to be the same old same old.

On that note, would an extreme direction change in Dick Grayson's character be more welcome than the constant re-used storylines, and under appreciated role that Nightwing seems stuck in? Would fans be happy if (for example) the current Ric persona was all a ruse, and Grayson is the man behind the Leviathon mask? It's a reach I know, but depending on how Event Leviathon plays out, would fans be upset if Dick went a different route to try and help make a difference?

No, because him doing a ruse doesn't make sense unless there's a bigger evil at play kinda like how he didn't tell the fam there's a bomb in Damian's head. So unless he knows about Perpetua and Year of The Villains ahead of time I don't think that would work.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

Well depending on the timeline of events, I could see Dick becoming Leviathan.

Like, imagine finally getting your memories back, and then finding out everything that's happened since then. While several heroes. including children, died at the Sanctuary, Dick was being Ric. And it's not just that, he'd have to deal with how unstable Bruce has become due to his absence: Bruce at least had somewhat of a reason to physically beat and chase Jason out of Gotham even if it was unnecessary, but randomly punching Tim was nonsensical. Because of Bruce's unstoppable curiosity during the start of Metal as well as the seeming incompetency of the JL during No Justice and the whole JL run so far, we're now at the point where the entire multiverse is in danger. Dick formed the latest group of Titans literally to deal with that fallout, so coming back to see nothing's gotten better even though it's the same JL in charge now as the one that forced him to disband the previous iteration of the Titans (the same action that robbed Roy and Wally of their support systems and eventually landed them both at the Sanctuary). This also doesn't include the whole Dark Multiverse corruption thing that the new Superman/Batman book is exploring, where several heroes are suspected of being evil including Donna which, regardless of the outcome, won't sit well with Dick.

You ask me, that's already enough for Dick to temporarily shun the hero community and go about things a different way. Why he'd go evil, well, it's pretty simple imo. Dick gets his memories back somehow right, it's not a stretch to say Otto Netz gets his place in Dick's brain back then too. Maybe it'd be a reverse Super Spider-Man situation, it makes sense given the Spyral-Leviathan connections. Or they could write the story first, then use Netz as the scapegoat so they can tell a dark story with Dick and then absolve him of any wrong-doings, then firmly plant him in the spy community as a grey-area "hero" seeking redemption or whatever.

Still, I doubt it'd happen. The only interesting theory I've seen about all this tho is that Leviathan is Roy, so hey, maybe Roy will drag Dick into the spy game later on. Leviathan and the new Agent 0, could be an interesting dynamic.

[Ascended]

I think the motivation to get back into the spy game would be rather straight forward, if DC actually did it. With Spyral Dick discovered a number of threats the heroic community had no idea about. And the agencies like the DEO and all the rest are ineffective, corrupt......they're not getting the job done. But if all those agencies had been able to put their in-fighting aside and decided to work together they could've taken over the world with no one even noticing. So Dick might get back into the game just because he's the only one who can really deal with those dangers; he's not really programmed for spy work but he *is* good at it and he's got connections through Spyral. He might consider it a dirty job that only he can do.

With Leviathan......I could be wrong but so far no one has died, right? And Leviathan is making offers to heroes and villains alike, including Babs. Depending on how it all shakes out.....right now I could see this being Nightwing......except for the fact that DC seems determined to ruin the character and I doubt they'd give him such a big, important role.

[Restingvoice]

While he approaches both heroes and villains, he's promoted as a villain. So that can count as ruining.

[Rac7d*]

I think the motivation to get back into the spy game would be rather straight forward, if DC actually did it. With Spyral Dick discovered a number of threats the heroic community had no idea about. And the agencies like the DEO and all the rest are ineffective, corrupt......they're not getting the job done. But if all those agencies had been able to put their in-fighting aside and decided to work together they could've taken over the world with no one even noticing. So Dick might get back into the game just because he's the only one who can really deal with those dangers; he's not really programmed for spy work but he *is* good at it and he's got connections through Spyral. He might consider it a dirty job that only he can do.

With Leviathan......I could be wrong but so far no one has died, right? And Leviathan is making offers to heroes and villains alike, including Babs. Depending on how it all shakes out.....right now I could see this being Nightwing......except for the fact that DC seems determined to ruin the character and I doubt they'd give him such a big, important role.

Why make dick a spy again. Helena not even a spy anymore. Spyral Is no longer relevant it is in limbo. It has no history without dick. So making dick a soynwiil not help him he will be like removed from the superhero world.

[Shadow Myyst]

It wouldn’t be Grayson the spy. It’d be Nightwing the superhero with a spy side gig. It keeps him in the superhero circle and the spy circle. We do better adding on to Nightwing than stripping away and blocking him out of something he was once an integral part of. I’d be pissed if I was Seeley tbh. I took this idea that no one cared about and with the help of Tom (a no name at the time) made it interesting and started to rebuild the spy corner and you give Bendis the spy event after derailing Dick.. er... Ric