Avengers #9 Spoilers and Review

[JKtheMac]

The very idea that it is wrong to have characters act in ways that help drive the story forward in a plot driven story, just shows how little they understand the process of storytelling. I don’t mind the criticisms that highlight how characters are different to the critic’s personal favourite depictions, we all have preferences. It is when those preferences are expressed as the objectively correct way that I take umbridge.

Then we have multiple examples of characters acting in ways that are yet to be fully explored by the narrative. Some seem to want their favourite characters to act in only one manner, and if there is a reason for a change they want it fully explained up front, even when it would entirely destroy any tension or anticipation being built by the writer. In a medium so heavily reliant on monthly reveals on the last page, it is just unreasonable to demand full knowledge of every plot point as it happens, and would result in a very dull and old-fashioned type of story.

[JKtheMac]

Yeah known majority still argued that how could someone become so much durable against he She Hulk , Thor and Captain America . If anyone can show me scans(or tell me which issue it was) with his high tier durability fts than i will happily accept them , since i have pretty much less knowledge about Namor tbh

So presumably you totally reject the clear hints in the story that Namor is acting under the influence of an external agent? The dark eys, the strange choice of allies and enemies, and breaking his word are just ‘bad writing’.

[Vishop]

So presumably you totally reject the clear hints in the story that Namor is acting under the influence of an external agent? The dark eys, the strange choice of allies and enemies, and breaking his word are just ‘bad writing’.

Well i already heard that Namor is amped in water from this thread and other threads but that doesn't mean i could recognize how much amped he is under water , since if i vaguely recall correctly he was beaten by the likes of Luke Cage underwater on AVX .

[Triniking1234]

Well i already heard that Namor is amped in water from this thread and other threads but that doesn't mean i could recognize how much amped he is under water , since if i vaguely recall correctly he was beaten by the likes of Luke Cage underwater on AVX .

Isn't that you just ignoring other posters?

[JKtheMac]

Isn't that you just ignoring other posters?

Longer threads can sometimes feel like déjà vu.

[GodThor]

Well i already heard that Namor is amped in water from this thread and other threads but that doesn't mean i could recognize how much amped he is under water , since if i vaguely recall correctly he was beaten by the likes of Luke Cage underwater on AVX .

his strength is as consistent as Mephisto.

anyway, current Avengers are first class jobbers.

they will be beaten by Scorpion next.

[Vishop]

Yeah. Reasoning for the order I gave:

• In X-Men Red, Laura is still Wolverine. Namor is with the team.
• In Extermination, Laura and Gabby have their new costumes from the new X-23 book.
• Avengers must be after that as Searebro is still active in Extermination. That's why I speculated that it gets destroyed - it's gone in Uncanny, from what we've seen, as Jean is now with Kitty - the Gold and Red teams seem to have merged.
• Uncanny X-Men can take place at the same time as Avengers #8 onwards. Avengers actually had a timeskip at that point where Life of Captain Marvel fits.

X-Red #10 just broke ur timeline LOL

[Triniking1234]

X-Red #10 just broke ur timeline LOL

He didn't break it down into arcs.

Aaron Avengers #1 - 6 and X-Men Red #1 - 11 most likely takes place after No Surrender and Phoenix Rez. That explains why Gambit is still on Earth. The only other time the X-Men and Avengers cross over in 616 is the Return of Wolverine minis which still fit since Laura is still Wolverine and Rogue is still on Earth

You can easily say Avengers #1-6 take place before Jean calls them in #10 then Red ends at #11. You go to Extermination where it's post-Return of Wolverine so Laura is X-23 again and Jean is still in Atlantis (Red could still say Searebro is moved to a non-Atlantis location). Then you go to Avengers #8 where evil, sexy Namor shows up. Uncanny X-Men takes place after Extermination when the O5 leaves. There aren't any X-Men pulling double duty in UXM to determine when Avengers #8 - bleh and UXM #1-10 takes place though.

[Reviresco]

Yeah known majority still argued that how could someone become so much durable against She Hulk , Thor and Captain America . If anyone can show me scans(or tell me which issue it was) with his high tier durability fts than i will happily accept them , since i have pretty much less knowledge about Namor tbh

Well i already heard that Namor is amped in water from this thread and other threads but that doesn't mean i could recognize how much amped he is under water , since if i vaguely recall correctly he was beaten by the likes of Luke Cage underwater on AVX .

I don't know what majority you are talking about, but seriously, Captain America??? Why would he have ANY durability against Namor? Where exactly did Luke Cage beat Namor underwater? As for the rest ...

Namor was Marvel / Timely Comics' response to Superman. He was, for decades, simply the strongest character they had. Then when the Silver Age kicked off with FF, the Thing was introduced. Namor regularly took him on and beat him, but also sometimes lost, because of the his dehydration 'flaw' which kept him from being ridiculously unbeatable. Then the Hulk was introduced, and the 'title' of strongest of them all generally went to the Hulk -- except when Namor was IN THE WATER. And then Thor was introduced, and eventually, he challenged Hulk (and Namor) for the title. Of course, truth to tell, back then writers were more concerned about showing how characters reacted to situations and being overmatched or underwhelmed, rather than if they won or not. See Daredevil #7.

Nowadays, many writers either forget all this or just abuse and job Namor out to prop up other characters.


Here's a few of your requsted scans.

Here's Namor taking on both Luke Cage AND the Thing at the same time underwater -- and knocking Thing out of the water.






Here's Namor taking out Luke Cage AND She Hulk AND then turning to take on The Thing, out of the water.






Namor has knocked Hulk out underwater (see the classic Hulk #118), and he's punched Red Hulk out of the water.





There's a great article, though I may not agree with every outcome he's stated, about every battle between Namor and the Hulk. Out of 45 encounters, Hulk has won 4 and Namor has won 4, and the rest were ties / draws / uncompleted. He's got a better record than Thor against the Hulk, who, according to this writer, has only one 2 of his encounters with Hulk. You can read it here:


http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/0...b-mariner.html



Back in the day, in Avengers #3, Namor took them all on, and their roster included Thor, Giant-Man, Iron Man and Wasp. He took on the FF by himself. He took on the X-Men by himself. He's pretty much gone toe to toe with every heavy hitter in the Marvel U. This is why some folks don't find Namor taking on the Avengers successfully that surprising. I personally found it a bit much, at least with him holding them off with basically one hand each. But I also believe Aaron's Namor isn't himself. Besides the black eyes, and the Atlantean children fearing him, he'd never have done that Stingray.

[GodThor]

that part with She-Hulk was off guard tbh and Red Hulk was out of air.

I personally found it a bit much, at least with him holding them off with basically one hand each.

that's actually the main issue.

he can beat them if he wants but he literally made a joke out of them (plus, Thor fought him equally a few months ago).

if it was some hard battle then cool but this was a ra***.

now, it's possible he is boosted but if he isn't then it's BS IMO and anger isn't doing much for me.

besides, current Avengers are treated as a hype tools, especially Thor (dude was afraid he would die from a fall and couldn't stop a train).

first Hulk, then Sentry and then Namor in one month.

call me BS, but seeing Thor treated like this for years left a bad mark.

heck, if TOAA beat Thor I would be pissed at this point.

[Ptrvc]

Hulk's gotten a lot stronger since the days Namor used to beat him underwater (and gained a healing factor, and doesn't need to breathe, heck some of those early fights were before the madder=stronger was established.)

That said Namor is a powerhouse, one of the few that can truly go toe to toe with guys like the Hulk. Back before Wolverine got big, Hulk vs. Namor was the ultimate Savage vs Savage brawl.

While I think they're leaning heavy on him being a villain, which I disagree with, powerwise, this is where Namor should be.

There is the Thor caveat. I think Namor in the water should be the favorite over Thor solo, but it should still be a fight. Aaron has been jobbing Thor like crazy for years now though, so against Aaron Thor...

Look, at this point I don't think we can say Thor is being jobbed out to anybody but Aaron-Jane-Thor.

[Vishop]

He didn't break it down into arcs.

Aaron Avengers #1 - 6 and X-Men Red #1 - 11 most likely takes place after No Surrender and Phoenix Rez. That explains why Gambit is still on Earth. The only other time the X-Men and Avengers cross over in 616 is the Return of Wolverine minis which still fit since Laura is still Wolverine and Rogue is still on Earth

You can easily say Avengers #1-6 take place before Jean calls them in #10 then Red ends at #11. You go to Extermination where it's post-Return of Wolverine so Laura is X-23 again and Jean is still in Atlantis (Red could still say Searebro is moved to a non-Atlantis location). Then you go to Avengers #8 where evil, sexy Namor shows up. Uncanny X-Men takes place after Extermination when the O5 leaves. There aren't any X-Men pulling double duty in UXM to determine when Avengers #8 - bleh and UXM #1-10 takes place though.

I am totally confused the points u concluded here , especially for this point i bolded .

Why wouldn't i include the the seventh and the eighth issue b4 Red #10 ?

There is any evidence to show that this two issues taken place after Red during Avengers #1-6 ? or Red and Avengers #1-6 are on same continuity ?

It would be really good if u can explain this

[Vishop]

I don't know what majority you are talking about, but seriously, Captain America??? Why would he have ANY durability against Namor? Where exactly did Luke Cage beat Namor underwater? As for the rest ...

Namor was Marvel / Timely Comics' response to Superman. He was, for decades, simply the strongest character they had. Then when the Silver Age kicked off with FF, the Thing was introduced. Namor regularly took him on and beat him, but also sometimes lost, because of the his dehydration 'flaw' which kept him from being ridiculously unbeatable. Then the Hulk was introduced, and the 'title' of strongest of them all generally went to the Hulk -- except when Namor was IN THE WATER. And then Thor was introduced, and eventually, he challenged Hulk (and Namor) for the title. Of course, truth to tell, back then writers were more concerned about showing how characters reacted to situations and being overmatched or underwhelmed, rather than if they won or not. See Daredevil #7.

Nowadays, many writers either forget all this or just abuse and job Namor out to prop up other characters.


Here's a few of your requsted scans.

Here's Namor taking on both Luke Cage AND the Thing at the same time underwater -- and knocking Thing out of the water.





There's a great article, though I may not agree with every outcome he's stated, about every battle between Namor and the Hulk. Out of 45 encounters, Hulk has won 4 and Namor has won 4, and the rest were ties / draws / uncompleted. He's got a better record than Thor against the Hulk, who, according to this writer, has only one 2 of his encounters with Hulk. You can read it here:

http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/0...b-mariner.html


http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2012/0...b-mariner.html



Back in the day, in Avengers #3, Namor took them all on, and their roster included Thor, Giant-Man, Iron Man and Wasp. He took on the FF by himself. He took on the X-Men by himself. He's pretty much gone toe to toe with every heavy hitter in the Marvel U. This is why some folks don't find Namor taking on the Avengers successfully that surprising. I personally found it a bit much, at least with him holding them off with basically one hand each. But I also believe Aaron's Namor isn't himself. Besides the black eyes, and the Atlantean children fearing him, he'd never have done that Stingray.

LOL i was actually going to say Captain Marvel , i apologize for any inconvenience .

If u don't mind can u show me any recent durability fts for Namor , underwater .

That would be good for all of us (at least for me since i asked that particular question b4 in this thread) . Thanks for show me those scans btw .

[Vishop]

that part with She-Hulk was off guard tbh and Red Hulk was out of air.


that's actually the main issue.

he can beat them if he wants but he literally made a joke out of them (plus, Thor fought him equally a few months ago).

if it was some hard battle then cool but this was a ra***.

now, it's possible he is boosted but if he isn't then it's BS IMO and anger isn't doing much for me.

besides, current Avengers are treated as a hype tools, especially Thor (dude was afraid he would die from a fall and couldn't stop a train).

first Hulk, then Sentry and then Namor in one month.

call me BS, but seeing Thor treated like this for years left a bad mark.

heck, if TOAA beat Thor I would be pissed at this point.

I hope he became the real Thor again during War of Realms , which i am expecting less right now from Aaron . Btw why did Aaron wanted Jane to become Thor ?

I don't really think that Asgard was shaked by her being Thor , if he really wanted to do that for certain .

[Triniking1234]

I am totally confused the points u concluded here , especially for this point i bolded .

Why wouldn't i include the the seventh and the eighth issue b4 Red #10 ?

There is any evidence to show that this two issues taken place after Red during Avengers #1-6 ?

It would be really good if u can explain this

The Aaron Avengers team forms at the end of #6 or the start of #8 so their appearances in other books will have to fit in with that. However if Namor is still an X-Man in Red #10 it will have to be after AV#6 since AV#8 is mostly the Avengers moving into their HQ.