The FLASH TV SERIES

[Frontier]

Wait... I missed that. Where was that stated or implied?

Wasn't that what Tracy said when she was discussing the metal in the armor, how it works, and how they could use it to trap Savitar?

You must not have watched any of Legends this season

Arrow has also been pretty strong this season, in my opinion .

Supergirl has also been pretty solid for my money.

[FlashEarthOne]

Wasn't that what Tracy said when she was discussing the metal in the armor, how it works, and how they could use it to trap Savitar?

Supergirl has also been pretty solid for my money.

Haha. I just rewatched on my DVR... I believe at that point in the live show my 2 year old asked me for some more water. In the end... I do think this was a good episode. I'm just not convinced that they can connect all the dots. In the writers' room Barry was Savitar from the start of the season. Sometimes it is harder to connect the dots in a 20+ episode season.

[Frontier]

Haha. I just rewatched on my DVR... I believe at that point in the live show my 2 year old asked me for some more water.

Well, kids always have to come first .

[Elmo]

Evil counterparts from the future have been done before in comics and movies and shows all the time. The problem is, this particular story isn't effective. We have seen so much of Barry blaming himself for different things. First it was for not realizing Wells was Eobard. Then it was for Ronnie's death. Then it was for not realizing "Jay" was Zoom/Hunter. Then he literally altered reality and caused aliens to attack earth, and changed the course of several people's lives. And as if that wasn't enough they had to make him a murderous speedster.

There are MAJOR inconsistencies. Firstly, the idea that Barry becomes Savitar and kills Iris because he witnesses himself as Savitar killing Iris makes no sense. Even thinking about it hurts my brain. Something had to have come first that didn't involve Barry as Savitar. If Barry cannot become Savitar without seeing himself as Savitar, the show has created an impossible time loop here without any way to explain why Barry became Savitar in the first place. Because originally, there was no Savitar.

It's all pretty stupid and making me miss Legends. These last 3 eps better have something redeeming man. I really want this show to be good again

[FishyZombie]

I feel for Cisco, first Wells turned out to be evil, then Caitlin became Killer Frost, now it turns out Barry is also a villain. poor guy needs to find better friends.

[Frontier]

There are MAJOR inconsistencies. Firstly, the idea that Barry becomes Savitar and kills Iris because he witnesses himself as Savitar killing Iris makes no sense. Even thinking about it hurts my brain. Something had to have come first that didn't involve Barry as Savitar. If Barry cannot become Savitar without seeing himself as Savitar, the show has created an impossible time loop here without any way to explain why Barry became Savitar in the first place. Because originally, there was no Savitar.

I am really curious to find out what set the time loop in motion, because there had to be something that kick-started it.

I feel for Cisco, first Wells turned out to be evil, then Caitlin became Killer Frost, now it turns out Barry is also a villain. poor guy needs to find better friends.

Not to mention Barry being partially responsible for the death of Cisco's brother...

[FlashEarthOne]

Well, I guess in the end...it's all still Barry's fault .

But it all fits more or less. "The first Speedster" chosen by the Speed Force, knows everything about the team, was "created" by Barry but also "created" himself, feels Barry stole everything from him, knows what Barry will do and what will hurt him the most...the God of Speed is still the "Fastest Man Alive." Now who's the villain, Flash?

The glowing blue armor aspect of Savitar's live-action design now makes a lot more sense, since they're basically adapting the New 52 Future Flash storyline. Though you just really have to wonder what happened that stuck Barry in this time-loop where his evil future self goes back in time and kills Iris, breaking Barry and setting him on the path of becoming Savitar (and then rinse and repeat)?

Like, how did the time loop start in the first place? What happened to future!Barry's face? What broke the future version of Barry so much that he would go to such great lengths to hurt his past self, right down to killing Iris? What changed him?

It's also interesting to note that apparently future Barry is so fast that he can't run without the armor to contain and control his speed. Where did he get that kind of boost in power? Was it related to the Crisis? Or his efforts to get faster to stop Savitar unknowingly made him fast enough to become Savitar? Did it lead to his face becoming like that?

I'm guessing that the scars on his face are due to time wraiths. So at some point... maybe Barry pushes himself to a speed that even the time wraiths can't catch him?

I do agree it all fits... more or less. From the very first episode of the season Thawne called Barry, "the Villain." The "Future Flash" references... now the last dots just have to be connected.

[FlashEarthOne]

I am really curious to find out what set the time loop in motion, because there had to be something that kick-started it.

I hope I am wrong but that is where I feel that it will all fall apart.

[Anarchist]

Oh man. I got up real early this morning so I could watch it before work and man.....while it became clear who Savitar is quite quickly within the episode, the reveal was nonetheless dramatic. So basically Barry is destined to become a villain now. Heavy stuff.

[Frontier]

I hope I am wrong but that is where I feel that it will all fall apart.

Well, I imagine we'll probably get the explanation for how exactly it happened (and how the logic of it fares) in the next episode. I imagine Future!Barry is going to want to monologue on how exactly he came to be.

[FlashEarthOne]

Well, I imagine we'll probably get the explanation for how exactly it happened (and how the logic of it fares) in the next episode. I imagine Future!Barry is going to want to monologue on how exactly he came to be.

I'm sure... the question is if it will truly make sense.

[FishyZombie]

I'm guessing that the scars on his face are due to time wraiths. So at some point... maybe Barry pushes himself to a speed that even the time wraiths can't catch him?

I do agree it all fits... more or less. From the very first episode of the season Thawne called Barry, "the Villain." The "Future Flash" references... now the last dots just have to be connected.

maybe they forshadowed this all the way back in season 1. Thawne often claimed to love present day Barry, but hate his future self. Mentioning he didn't see any hint of what he would become one day. Maybe Savitar is the guy Eobard comes to hate so much and he knew all along that Barry would become a monster.

[Elmo]

maybe they forshadowed this all the way back in season 1. Thawne often claimed to love present day Barry, but hate his future self. Mentioning he didn't see any hint of what he would become one day. Maybe Savitar is the guy Eobard comes to hate so much and he knew all along that Barry would become a monster.

I honestly believe if Flashpoint didn't happen, Savitar wouldn't be a thing.

This has to all tie in to Flashpoint somehow. Savitar was using Alchemy to restore the powers of different Flashpoint metas. But why? There was also the whole husks thing which randomly got dropped for some reason. It seems like Dark Barry was trying to make Barry feel ashamed of creating Flashpoint. I think this season could end with a return to Flashpoint. Not that it should though, considering it might involve Barry trying to stop Flashpoint from ever happening. No matter what happens though, that decision to save his mother is the reason for all of this.

[numberthirty]

So, near-future "Bummed" Barry was lying about knowing who Savitar was.

Wasn't he? If not, do we ever find out one way or the other?

[Carabas]

There are MAJOR inconsistencies. Firstly, the idea that Barry becomes Savitar and kills Iris because he witnesses himself as Savitar killing Iris makes no sense. Even thinking about it hurts my brain. Something had to have come first that didn't involve Barry as Savitar. If Barry cannot become Savitar without seeing himself as Savitar, the show has created an impossible time loop here without any way to explain why Barry became Savitar in the first place. Because originally, there was no Savitar.

That's not an inconsistancy. That's perhaps the show's very first example of proper time travel tropes. It's your bog standard bootstrap paradox.

Yes, of course something caused Future!Barry to set this up, and that's why there's three more episodes.