Kitty and Racheal? Looks like it!

[Digifiend]

I didn't know there was that big of an age gap between them.

Of course there is. Franklin already exists (last stated to be eight years old, though his 1960s debut means he should be a few years older) while Rachel hasn't even been born yet.

[ZNOP]

Well, I'm sorry for you then. But what I'm trying to say here is: Kitty and Rachel(or Illyana btw) as a couple totally makes sense. They have chemistry, a great connection, subtext, and even their creator thought about them like that, and so does many people. If one of them was a male character, I'm sure they would have been together already, and it's a shame that they didn't and probably never will because since the moment they were created they were somehow established as straight for no much reason other than that being the default for every character.

Wait a minute... Your actually advocating that there be a defining reason for a character to be heterosexual out of the gate?

[DDM]

Oh I forgot (blocked out) Rachel's most toxic heteronormative love interest of all; Sublime.

Also, what if, to throw everyone off, Marvel puts Rachel and Illyana together?

So hot.

Personally I'd prefer Kitty as bi and Rachel as lesbian. Cause Kitty romantic life(with guys) is still relevant to her character and I'd rather not have that changed. Don't feel the same about Rachel really.

This seems natural imo. Although I can see Kitty totally embracing the community/identity more once they go there.

Kitty is 24. Kurt will be 31. Collosus is 29. That's what I think the ages of those 3 are. Have no idea what age Rachel is.

Rachel should be around Kitty's age now. She was only a year or two older before but she "lost time" when she went in the timestream.

Storm should be mid/late 30s with these ages too, she's older than the O5 and Kurt's 3 years younger than Jean. I don't know about OML, isn't he like 200 now?

Uh, no. Rachel was Kitty's campaign manager when she ran for Mayor of Chicago. Kitty's kids don't turn up until the epilogue, after Rachel has ascended to a higher plane of existence with Scott, Jean, Xavier, Magneto, et al. We never learn who the kids' father/other parent is.

lol "campaign manager" is the new "leman".

The other parent was Rachel. Claremont literally confirmed this. One kid was even a redhead!

[Askani's Flame]

With Franklin it's also important to remember he was quite a bit older than Rachel as a teenager. It was much like the Kitty and Colossus age range which people come down pretty hard on now, even though Kitty was the clear aggressor there.

Rachel's other romantic male parings include an unrequited interest from Alistaire Stuart (in a triangle with Kitty no less), an intense mutual attraction to Rory Campbell (whose future self severely abused Rachel in her youth, so fucked up!), a brief flirtation with Nightcrawler (EW!), dancing with her hot cousin (STOP!) and finally a creepy date-rapey co-dependent Phoenix addiction based coupling with Korvus and his Giant Sword (WHYYYYYY?). To call this a toxic dating history would be an understatement.

I think we can all agree full lesbo is the best way forward.

Don't forget her stints with the walking virus and the brief on-screen romance with Red Lotus!

Kitty is 24. Kurt will be 31. Collosus is 29. That's what I think the ages of those 3 are. Have no idea what age Rachel is.

Kitty is closer to 22 at this point, which I think puts Rachel at the 25 mark. She's slightly younger than Rogue and slightly older than Cannonball and the New Mutants.

[GSman]

Oh I forgot (blocked out) Rachel's most toxic heteronormative love interest of all; Sublime.



So hot.


This seems natural imo. Although I can see Kitty totally embracing the community/identity more once they go there.


Rachel should be around Kitty's age now. She was only a year or two older before but she "lost time" when she went in the timestream.

Storm should be mid/late 30s with these ages too, she's older than the O5 and Kurt's 3 years younger than Jean. I don't know about OML, isn't he like 200 now?


lol "campaign manager" is the new "leman".

The other parent was Rachel. Claremont literally confirmed this. One kid was even a redhead!

Yeah OML is around or close to 200 but physically he's probably around his 50s so if he has a relationship with anyone that's the ultimate age gap.

[FUBAR007]

lol "campaign manager" is the new "leman".

The other parent was Rachel. Claremont literally confirmed this. One kid was even a redhead!

Try again. Kitty's kids don't appear until the epilogue which is set 20 years after Rachel ascends/dies. All of Kitty's kids are portrayed as younger than 19-20.

As for Claremont's "confirmation", I assume you're referring to this:
http://capelesscrusader.org/flamecon...ueerest-x-man/

His "confirmation" doesn't make sense. Again, by the time we get to the epilogue he refers to, Rachel is long dead. Second, even if he's saying she survived somehow off-panel, she and Kitty are both women and can't conceive together. Who was the sperm donor? Cable, Rachel's genetic brother, was dead by that point.

Either Claremont forgot the ending of his own story, he was projecting his own head-canon that for whatever reason didn't make it into the published work, or, most likely, he was being deliberately elliptical so as to provide the audience room for "alternate interpretation" i.e. fill in your own ending.

[Slicknickshady]

Try again. Kitty's kids don't appear until the epilogue which is set 20 years after Rachel ascends/dies. All of Kitty's kids are portrayed as younger than 19-20.

As for Claremont's "confirmation", I assume you're referring to this:
http://capelesscrusader.org/flamecon...ueerest-x-man/

His "confirmation" doesn't make sense. Again, by the time we get to the epilogue he refers to, Rachel is long dead. Second, even if he's saying she survived somehow off-panel, she and Kitty are both women and can't conceive together. Who was the sperm donor? Cable, Rachel's genetic brother, was dead by that point.

Either Claremont forgot the ending of his own story, he was projecting his own head-canon that for whatever reason didn't make it into the published work, or, most likely, he was being deliberately elliptical so as to provide the audience room for "alternate interpretation" i.e. fill in your own ending.

No doubt Claremont is an LGBTQ ally. But as with anything i need to see it on the page and not just subtext. He could legit have wanted that for the end. Regardless, i wouldn't mind Kitty/Rachel at all if it were to happen.

[Sardorim]

Didn't Rachel stop aging a bit due to Time Stream stuff? Like a year or so?

Personally I'd prefer Kitty as bi and Rachel as lesbian. Cause Kitty romantic life(with guys) is still relevant to her character and I'd rather not have that changed. Don't feel the same about Rachel really.

Rachel outing would be interesting but she has shown interest in boys so lesbian over bi would be odd. I don't think she ruined her relationship either like Bobby did and she did love Franklin despite the age difference.

I'd say that Kitty is like 21 and both Colossus and Kurt are more than 31, years ago Kurt had to have been already well into his twenties when Kitty first showed up at the very least, after all they had Emma as only being 29 and remember that Cannonball and the rest of the New Mutants are all at least 21 and others like Siryn is about the same age as Rogue...

Rachel and Kitty were thought to be straight when they were created because otherwise it would have been stated or shown that they weren't, most characters now if they're not straight it's revealed upfront, and both Rachel and Kitty have a long history of dating guys with only light maybe's about anything else, Illyana would be the easiest of the three but I don't see romance of any kind really for her anytime soon as that doesn't seem to be a big part of who her character is. I think that part of Rachel's bad relationship history is that she started out so young and then was used so sparingly over the years that she didn't get enough time to actually have a true relationship that lasted longer than a few issues...

Errr...

Rachel was bedding Korvus for many issues and they only broke it off because the Phoenix no longer forced then to maddenly desire the other and Korvus chose space, as that's what he knew, over staying on Earth with Rachel.

Why can't they just be close friends? Why does everyone want to turn it romantic? It feels like in a lot of media if people are close they want to attach a romance to it. Kitty has been in a romance in every series she has been in it feels like and most have been bad. She needs a break. I'd rather see their friendship strengthen and grow rather than a romance that will die out because it is comics and that always happens.

I highly doubt just friends have the same bond as Kitty and Rachel and referred to the other as "My love". Had either been a guy they would have already dated by now.

[ZNOP]

Didn't Rachel stop aging a bit due to Time Stream stuff? Like a year or so?




Rachel outing would be interesting but she has shown interest in boys so lesbian over bi would be odd. I don't think she ruined her relationship either like Bobby did and she did love Franklin despite the age difference.



Errr...

Rachel was bedding Korvus for many issues and they only broke it off because the Phoenix no longer forced then to maddenly desire the other and Korvus chose space, as that's what he knew, over staying on Earth with Rachel.



I highly doubt just friends have the same bond as Kitty and Rachel and referred to the other as "My love". Had either been a guy they would have already dated by now.

The "One-shot/fanfic" effect: The random, unexplained, occurrence of a grossly isolated instance which has neither a precedence or a future attachment -- blindly, accepted as canonical fact even though the assumption lacks sufficient "on panel" proof.

[Slicknickshady]

I'd say that Kitty is like 21 and both Colossus and Kurt are more than 31, years ago Kurt had to have been already well into his twenties when Kitty first showed up at the very least, after all they had Emma as only being 29 and remember that Cannonball and the rest of the New Mutants are all at least 21 and others like Siryn is about the same age as Rogue...

Rachel and Kitty were thought to be straight when they were created because otherwise it would have been stated or shown that they weren't, most characters now if they're not straight it's revealed upfront, and both Rachel and Kitty have a long history of dating guys with only light maybe's about anything else, Illyana would be the easiest of the three but I don't see romance of any kind really for her anytime soon as that doesn't seem to be a big part of who her character is. I think that part of Rachel's bad relationship history is that she started out so young and then was used so sparingly over the years that she didn't get enough time to actually have a true relationship that lasted longer than a few issues...

You know Kitty was 13.5 on the day of Nightcrawlers 21st Birthday. That's Canon. So it's def not a 10 yr diff.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

It may not be 10 years but it's pretty close, basically Kurt would have been graduating high school when Kitty in Elementary school...

[Mike_Murdock]

There's a Timely article by Elle Collins that continues the argument that Kitty and Illyana are soulmates (with acknowledgment of Rachel as a possibility).

[Slicknickshady]

There's a Timely article by Elle Collins that continues the argument that Kitty and Illyana are soulmates (with acknowledgment of Rachel as a possibility).

Lol. Quite a bit of reaching. IMO.

[DDM]

Try again. Kitty's kids don't appear until the epilogue which is set 20 years after Rachel ascends/dies. All of Kitty's kids are portrayed as younger than 19-20.

As for Claremont's "confirmation", I assume you're referring to this:
http://capelesscrusader.org/flamecon...ueerest-x-man/

His "confirmation" doesn't make sense. Again, by the time we get to the epilogue he refers to, Rachel is long dead. Second, even if he's saying she survived somehow off-panel, she and Kitty are both women and can't conceive together. Who was the sperm donor? Cable, Rachel's genetic brother, was dead by that point.

Either Claremont forgot the ending of his own story, he was projecting his own head-canon that for whatever reason didn't make it into the published work, or, most likely, he was being deliberately elliptical so as to provide the audience room for "alternate interpretation" i.e. fill in your own ending.

lol, I was referring to ANOTHER time he confirmed it: http://www.xplainthexmen.com/2016/03...ris-claremont/.

It's cute you try so hard to dismiss Claremont's viewpoint though, one that he was deliberately layering into the work is so glaringly obvious with even a superficial read. Not just in the The End but also Excalibur, True Friends, X-Treme X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. It really is right there.

[Mike_Murdock]

Lol. Quite a bit of reaching. IMO.

Considering the Comics Code prevented them from being explicit, there's quite a lot of implicit things pointed out in this thread. The Kitty/Illyana soul bond thing, the fact that the two of them were literally the only roommates in the mansion (none of the New Mutants had roommates), the fact that Kate Pryde referred to Rachel as "My Love" and they talked about their mental bond. The fact that they're often touching and holding hands. The cake scene between Kitty and Courtney Ross that's obviously a seduction scene with Kitty saying "yes." I don't know what else you could do and still get your book published.