Do modern Marvel writers hate Thor?

[brettc1]

One billion percent sure! It's so popular that Marvel has to limit how many it can sell because releasing too many wouldn't be fair to the other comics Marvel puts out. Once you read it you have no desire to read the other comics put out that month.

It's. Just. That. Good.

Riiiight.

So the reason that Marvel only sold just over 20K of Valkyrie in December is because they wanted to get prop,e to buy other books.

Hmmm,.

Nah.

Captain Marvel sold 36,600 in the same month. Sorry, I don’t believe those numbers were propped up by convincing all the folks who wanted to read Fosters book to switch.

But if this is sarcasm, then well done!

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Exactly. Why is that something most writers these days fail to grasp about Thor's character? There is a reason, for example, Captain America, is seen as someone who could lift Thor's hammer, not vice versa. Thor should the standard in terms of high moral character, nobility, and all that other good stuff.



Yes. Mjolnir provides a whole host of powers, esoteric included, that writers seem to have forgotten exists. Vortexes, tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning, water spouts and like you mentioned, anti force and god blast. Also, I would like a writer to expound on the dreaded warriors madness that increases Thor's strength 10x.



We agree on much and this is certainly one of them. As mentioned, warriors madness would be cool to explore.

How about a modern rematch with Immortal Hulk without the hammer?

Thor with Warrior Madness + Mejingjord the belt of strenght would be more than a match for Immortal Hulk.

Also stop using Thor's name like a superhero title. Red Norvell Is not Thor. Beta Ray Bill Is not Thor. Steve Rogers Is not Thor. Clark Kent is not Thor. Diana Prince is not Thor.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Compare thor's education and intelligence to other warrior types. He's lived for thousands of years, as part of a godly race, sure, but it's also a more mystical race.

Compare it to say Mar-vell. The guy is war hero soldier/warrior, but his undercover identity on earth was as a scientist because his education was good enough.
Or the eternals. Even eros, is portrayed as having advanced scientific knowledge. Thanos is basically Doom, has advanced science knowledge, magic knowledge etc.

Thor should atleast be good at magic or leadership or something (his old mjolnir was kinda like a magic wand), but he's like never really been a leader of the avengers and when he becomes king of asgard he's shown wavering. Like in this run, his hammer keeps getting heavier and heavier for him to lift (he was a good ruler in JMS' run though)

The marvel handbook also rates his intelligence at a 2, and his martial arts skills at a 4. Which is like, he's experienced, but not a master at any form of combat. Compare this to like steve rogers or bucky, who're basically masters of every form of combat (even mar-vell is rated at a 4, though his skill was a lot higher and shown with his cosmic awareness how he used weak points and such). Like you don't get a whole lot of moments of him showing his skill like he did against Masterson.

Basically, the guy feels like a massive underachiever considering his age and resources he had available.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Compare thor's education and intelligence to other warrior types. He's lived for thousands of years, as part of a godly race, sure, but it's also a more mystical race.

Compare it to say Mar-vell. The guy is war hero soldier/warrior, but his undercover identity on earth was as a scientist because his education was good enough.
Or the eternals. Even eros, is portrayed as having advanced scientific knowledge. Thanos is basically Doom, has advanced science knowledge, magic knowledge etc.

Thor should atleast be good at magic or leadership or something (his old mjolnir was kinda like a magic wand), but he's like never really been a leader of the avengers and when he becomes king of asgard he's shown wavering. Like in this run, his hammer keeps getting heavier and heavier for him to lift (he was a good ruler in JMS' run though)

The marvel handbook also rates his intelligence at a 2, and his martial arts skills at a 4. Which is like, he's experienced, but not a master at any form of combat. Compare this to like steve rogers or bucky, who're basically masters of every form of combat (even mar-vell is rated at a 4, though his skill was a lot higher and shown with his cosmic awareness how he used weak points and such). Like you don't get a whole lot of moments of him showing his skill like he did against Masterson.

Basically, the guy feels like a massive underachiever considering his age and resources he had available.

He was king in Dan Jurgens run but it got erased due to time travel shenanigans and because Lord Thor was pretty much turning into a villain.

Thank you for remembering Mar-Vell, another one of my favorite Marvel heroes. And also for remembering that Thanos is supposed to be a science expert.

[Ichijinijisanji]

He was king in Dan Jurgens run but it got erased due to time travel shenanigans and because Lord Thor was pretty much turning into a villain.

Thank you for remembering Mar-Vell, another one of my favorite Marvel heroes. And also for remembering that Thanos is supposed to be a science expert.

Yeah I didn't want to count that, because it just ended in some evil thor warning (which was foreshadowed when gladiator came from the future). He was also struggling between asgard and earth in Geoff Johns standoff, ending in him leaving the avengers after cap talked some sense.

[Cronus]

Thor with Warrior Madness + Mejingjord the belt of strenght would be more than a match for Immortal Hulk.

I think so. I cant believe the chasm in strength that's developed between Thor and Hulk. I mean, we went from "Hulk may be stronger than Thor...", (IH Annual 2001) to "er...WTF just happened?" I remember when the rest of the Avengers stood back in awe and watched these two titans clash. Now, Thor defers to Shulk. Geez, what a revoltin' development!

Also stop using Thor's name like a superhero title. Red Norvell Is not Thor. Beta Ray Bill Is not Thor. Steve Rogers Is not Thor. Clark Kent is not Thor. Diana Prince is not Thor.

Agreed. That has always been my view as well.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

I think so. I cant believe the chasm in strength that's developed between Thor and Hulk. I mean, we went from "Hulk may be stronger than Thor...", (IH Annual 2001) to "er...WTF just happened?" I remember when the rest of the Avengers stood back in awe and watched these two titans clash. Now, Thor defers to Shulk. Geez, what a revoltin' development!



Agreed. That has always been my view as well.

That's because Greg Pak happened. His run on Hulk was good for giving Bruce and the green guy some genuine character development but maaaan was he fixated on making Hulk the most badass invincible character ever. And because Greg Pak was successful, Hulk has never looked back (getting pwned by Zeus aside).

[Ichijinijisanji]

Thor with Warrior Madness + Mejingjord the belt of strenght would be more than a match for Immortal Hulk.

Also stop using Thor's name like a superhero title. Red Norvell Is not Thor. Beta Ray Bill Is not Thor. Steve Rogers Is not Thor. Clark Kent is not Thor. Diana Prince is not Thor.

i saw a preview of immortal hulk standing next to green scar. I think green scar hulk is a lot stronger than immortal, or will be portrayed as such

[Frontier]

I'd assume that yes, it's something like this. Thor is taken for granted as one of the strongest guys in the room, so if a writer wants to promote a certain character or make fans' heads explode, knocking him down a peg is an easy way yo do it.

I never really saw this be the case when Busiek, Hickman, and Stern had Thor on their Avengers teams.

Waid didn't treat JaneThor that way.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

I never really saw this be the case when Busiek, Hickman, and Stern had Thor on their Avengers teams.

Waid didn't treat JaneThor that way.

Busiek and Roger Stern are oldschool authors, while Hickman likes sci-fi and mystical characters.

[davew128]

Or the eternals. Even eros, is portrayed as having advanced scientific knowledge. Thanos is basically Doom, has advanced science knowledge, magic knowledge etc.

It would make sense that the Eternals have advanced scientific knowledge, especially the Titan based ones, because they are an ancient space-faring race. Eros's intelligence level isn't really known, but having grown up on Titan it would stand to reason his scientific knowledge level would reflect living on a hollowed world run by a computer. His father and older brother are both universally known scientific geniuses.

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

It would make sense that the Eternals have advanced scientific knowledge, especially the Titan based ones, because they are an ancient space-faring race. Eros's intelligence level isn't really known, but having grown up on Titan it would stand to reason his scientific knowledge level would reflect living on a hollowed world run by a computer. His father and older brother are both universally known scientific geniuses.

The Eternals are genetically engineered demigods with mystical powers. They are more than your average human aliens.

[Cronus]

That's because Greg Pak happened. His run on Hulk was good for giving Bruce and the green guy some genuine character development but maaaan was he fixated on making Hulk the most badass invincible character ever. And because Greg Pak was successful, Hulk has never looked back (getting pwned by Zeus aside).

Pak does love Hulk. Not sure if he loves Hulk or Surfer more...

But that right there, that you describe? Exactly what Thor needs. You hold out any hope for Cates?

[CaptainMar-Vell92 of the Kree]

Pak does love Hulk. Not sure if he loves Hulk or Surfer more...

But that right there, that you describe? Exactly what Thor needs. You hold out any hope for Cates?

Thor needs to be shown as clever and noble more than beating one hero after another senselessly.

[Sutekh]

I'm really starting to dislike the Worf Effect device.

Narratively, it makes a certain amount of sense that a threat that can challenge Thor *and a team* shouldn't be one that Thor could solo on his own, since that means the rest of the team is just a pointless bit of wasted ink on the page.

Obviously, not every encounter the team faces needs to be a threat that can tank Thor, but, again, narratively, we readers don't need to spend $4.95 on a story in which the team faces down the Circus of Crime or whatever, and the heavy hitters like Thor are sitting around bored because they so terribly outclass the day's 'challenge.' (Logically, those encounters would happen, but we don't get to see them, 'cause they are less thrilling heroic adventures and more house-cleaning or the comic book equivalent of 'grinding for XP' or 'clearing out the old gray quests in the quest log.')

(That said, like, once a year or so, a story like that could be fun, where the team just mows through some villain group or army of mooks way below their pay grade, and we get to revel in them being pretty much unstoppable for an issue.)

I do agree that it seems to happen far too much, and, particularly, it invariably seems to be a direct challenge on the strongest characters strongest attribute. Thor can be curbstomped by a good mentalist (like Moondragon) with ease. And yet, the new challenge of the day has to show off his uberness by matching him in a fist-fight, which is annoying, since a well-written story should have some 'niche protection' built in. If a character has 'the strongest' or 'the smartest' or 'the fastest' as their one big thing, every single freaking challenge they face shouldn't be someone that has their best power +1.

That's lame design. Don't make someone *stronger* than Thor. Recognize that his most legendary arch-nemesis is *Loki* who abso-freaking-lutely will never beat him in an arm-wrestling match. (Save by some epic cheating!) Come at him sideways, targetting one of the many stats at which he is *not* godlike powerful.

IMO, they need to get rid of the 'Worf Effect' by not having every new challenge be 'your best stat +1.'

I kind of grown when I see a threat to Thor be some yob with an even more powerful magic weapon, like Allblack the Necro-sword or whatever the heck emo thing it's called. Yuk. That's like the Abomination of Thor villains. (Oh, it's an evil Hulk, slightly bigger, greener and uglier! How creative... /s)