Controversial Batfamily Opinions

[adrikito]

You're entitled to that opinion, but you're wrong. I kid, but think about it this way. To this day, Steph fans blame Bruce for what happened to her, myself included, and while losing a few thousand fans isn't much to Batman, as time went on, and more characters were mistreated, there's no telling what could have happened.
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Yes... No matter the DC opinion, Steph was another Robin.. and even with N52, Cass and Steph are a true batgirls.

Resurrect Steph was A GOOD OPTION, I followed her in many comics(that previosly I never read) during N52 and I see the Batgirl Vol3.. only for her.

Cluemaster died in eternal batman and ... I am sure, I will see him again. And his daughter Steph is better character.

[byrd156]

If you read War Games with the retcon in mind it isn't nearly as bad as everyone says it is. It's not bad or great but I think it's still enjoyable if you read it with that mind set.

[Assam]

My favorite period for the batfam was during No Mans Land. Nightwing, Robin, Huntress, Oracle, Azrael, Batgirl (I liked Cass in NML! Really!).

That's my favorite Batfamily era as well! And she may not have been part of the core family at that point, pretty much just interacting with Tim and Cass, but I group Steph in with the Family at that point.

Cass's NML appearances were gold, yeah. (As a whole, NML is my favorite Batman story)

And regarding one of you bold points, yes, when it comes to H2H and stealth, very few can match Cass. However, as I point out to people more than I'd like to, pretty much all of Cass's growth and development happened within her solo book.(And kinda one issue of Gotham Knights) There, we see she has a lot of flaws, flaws that without which, I wouldn't love her like I do. It was rarely ever a question of "How will Cass win this fight?" Generally, the fights were just there to show her being awesome. The real draw of the book was Cass's growth as a character, and her unique relationships with a bunch of characters.

[millernumber1]

I don't think that bad stories becoming less bad if you take out the most of the bad stuff is particularily controversial.

Ahaha, that's brilliantly said.

Yes... No matter the DC opinion, Steph was another Robin.. and even with N52, Cass and Steph are a true batgirls.

Resurrect Steph was A GOOD OPTION, I followed her in many comics(that previosly I never read) during N52 and I see the Batgirl Vol3.. only for her.

Cluemaster died in eternal batman and ... I am sure, I will see him again. And his daughter Steph is better character.

Yup! Steph is part of the Robin legend, and she made Batgirl her own thing.

[Assam]

Yes... No matter the DC opinion, Steph was another Robin.. and even with N52, Cass and Steph are a true batgirls.

Resurrect Steph was A GOOD OPTION, I followed her in many comics(that previosly I never read) during N52 and I see the Batgirl Vol3.. only for her.

Cluemaster died in eternal batman and ... I am sure, I will see him again. And his daughter Steph is better character.

QFT

10char

[Aioros22]

Jason could be the "do what needs to be done" person in DC. Not saying they should kill everyone, or even anyone, but having Jason in that role opens up the conversation that just isn't there now. For example, the first (i think) spiderman wolverine team up was all about this and I thought it was fantastic.

He is. That`s virtually the resolution of the first arc and what the conversation between him and Bruce was about.

[The Kid]

I'm fine with as big a Batfamily as possible but I think there should be a degree of separation when it comes to Batman. I think the Batfamily most of the time drags Batman as a character down which is why I think Batman himself should only really interact with Dick, Babs, Damian, and maybe Tim at most

[RebirthgotmebackintoDC]

He is. That`s virtually the resolution of the first arc and what the conversation between him and Bruce was about.

Yeah I know, I think that's a great start. But technically, he didn't kill Black Mask, although what he did might have been worse. But I would love to see the other members confront him about stuff like that and be wrong sometimes. And Jason would be wrong sometimes too. And all of their decisions would have consequences, because each is selfish in a sense. One youre deciding to take a life and the other youre saying my ideals are more important than your lives. It is a hard topic with no easy answers. RHATO have a great start to that, but if you read the Spider-Man VS Wolverine one shot, or the punisher daredevil issue with the rooftop conversation that inspired the Netflix scene (plays out differently in the comic) or Remenders Xforce run, the heroes are confronted with harder choices and don't come out scott free at all, no matter what side of the argument they fall on.

[dancj]

I'd say War Games is one of the better Bat-crossovers. Certainly better than Contagion and Cataclysm.

I don't really care about what it did to Steph - but I really hate what War Crimes did to Leslie

[Assam]

I'm not really sure if this counts as an opinion; it's more of a quandary, really.

Some people say that the Batfamily is too big. They say that too many new characters get introduced and it needs to be sized down.

That's a fine and valid opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

But these same people I find are generally ones who are glad that Damian and Jason came back to life, despite the former's resurrection going against what the character's creator wanted, and the latter's, at the time especially, ruining a major part of the Batmythos.

Some people like Duke, Harper, and (Does Gotham Girl have any fans? I honestly don't know.) Others don't. Again, I have my opinions and others have theirs.

Still, when I hear people cheering on Damian and Jason, and saying that Duke, Harper, Claire, Luke, and sometimes hearing people basically say that everyone created after Tim, save Damian, should be cut...it leads me to think that the problem these people have isn't that the Batfamily is too big, but that they don't like any limelight being given to someone who isn't their favorite.

This may seem obvious, but there are plenty of people who claim to not have a problem with a lot of characters, but think of them as "pointless."

Obviously, this is a case that varies from person to person, and isn't an absolute overview of the situation from my eyes.

But I'll close with this summary: People who say you want a smaller Batfamily? If Jason and Damian had stayed dead, you'd get your smaller Batfamily. It may not be with the characters you want, but you'd have it.

[phantom1592]

I'm not really sure if this counts as an opinion; it's more of a quandary, really.

Some people say that the Batfamily is too big. They say that too many new characters get introduced and it needs to be sized down.

That's a fine and valid opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

But these same people I find are generally ones who are glad that Damian and Jason came back to life, despite the former's resurrection going against what the character's creator wanted, and the latter's, at the time especially, ruining a major part of the Batmythos.

Some people like Duke, Harper, and (Does Gotham Girl have any fans? I honestly don't know.) Others don't. Again, I have my opinions and others have theirs.

Still, when I hear people cheering on Damian and Jason, and saying that Duke, Harper, Claire, Luke, and sometimes hearing people basically say that everyone created after Tim, save Damian, should be cut...it leads me to think that the problem these people have isn't that the Batfamily is too big, but that they don't like any limelight being given to someone who isn't their favorite.

This may seem obvious, but there are plenty of people who claim to not have a problem with a lot of characters, but think of them as "pointless."

Obviously, this is a case that varies from person to person, and isn't an absolute overview of the situation from my eyes.

But I'll close with this summary: People who say you want a smaller Batfamily? If Jason and Damian had stayed dead, you'd get your smaller Batfamily. It may not be with the characters you want, but you'd have it.

Yeah, that always seems a bit hypocritical... Myself, I think the Batfamily is too big AND don't want Jason or Damian around. 1 robin who grew up, 1 robin who died and was off the table... and 1 robin who learned the best lessons from each. End of story.

In the 90's, the batfamily was fairly sizable too... but it didn't FEEL that sizable. Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, Azrael, Huntress, ummm... Harold?? I think I'm forgetting someone.... Catwoman could probably count...

However, back then they were more 'separated'. Nightwing had moved on to his own adventures with Titans and his solo book. Batgirl and Huntress were off on their own adventures... Harold had disappeared and nobody bothered to look for him. Azrael was nearly forgotten after Knightsend... still around but not imposing himself on the Bat-books.. If not for the occasional Contagion style crossover, they all did their own thing and stayed out of the cave. Batman Sometimes Robin, Oracle on the computer screen... that's about it AND with the huge family.

Now it feels like the cast has gotten bigger and the number of solo books have gotten smaller. All the batfamily are showing up in the batman books. There's less spotlight for what people consider 'the main characters' and more devoted to introducing 'new' characters.

As for the 'pointless', I'm not a fan of redundant characters. I notice it the most in things like GIJoe and Transformers. Every time they introduce some new character in a cartoon or movie there SHOULD be a REASON they are introduced. Those two properties have very detailed file cards and personalities... and if they are going to be doing the EXACT same job description as someone that already has the history... than they're pretty much pointless. We don't need a NEW doctor in Transformers... we have Rachet... or First Aid... or even Perceptor...GIJoe had Doc.... and LifeLine... Introducing a hotshot pilot or tough marine... those characters slots already exist. it's part of the fun of having decades of resources and characters at yoru fingertips...

[Pohzee]

I understand what you mean Unclepulky, but my preference for a tighter Batcast has as much to do with iconography as it does with conciseness. I personally believe that the large supporting cast dilutes the Batman brand. Because I think that recognizable mantles are important, I believe that it is of the upmost importance that the Batman family contain only iconic members. For this reason, in my opinion, a Batwing or a Bluebird isn't worth a Robin or a Batgirl.

My ideal Batman family is the size and consistency of Batman: The New Adventures- Batman, Nightwing, a Robin, and a Batgirl. I really don't care how this is achieved, whether Jason is Robin; Jason is dead and Tim is Robin; or Jason is dead, Tim is retired, and Damian is Robin. My issues with Tim Drake appeared when he was removed from the Robin mantle, and I suspect my feelings for Damian will be the same if he is removed from the role in the forseeable future. I don't like the idea of Batgirl as a legacy mantle, which is why I stick with Babs, but I'd settle for Steph's Batgirl.

To summarize: The Batman mythos is like a chemical solution and the Batfamily members are like various acids; certain acids are stronger than others, and diluting them reduces their potency.

[Coal Tiger]

I'm not really sure if this counts as an opinion; it's more of a quandary, really.

Some people say that the Batfamily is too big. They say that too many new characters get introduced and it needs to be sized down.

That's a fine and valid opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

But these same people I find are generally ones who are glad that Damian and Jason came back to life, despite the former's resurrection going against what the character's creator wanted, and the latter's, at the time especially, ruining a major part of the Batmythos.

Some people like Duke, Harper, and (Does Gotham Girl have any fans? I honestly don't know.) Others don't. Again, I have my opinions and others have theirs.

Still, when I hear people cheering on Damian and Jason, and saying that Duke, Harper, Claire, Luke, and sometimes hearing people basically say that everyone created after Tim, save Damian, should be cut...it leads me to think that the problem these people have isn't that the Batfamily is too big, but that they don't like any limelight being given to someone who isn't their favorite.

This may seem obvious, but there are plenty of people who claim to not have a problem with a lot of characters, but think of them as "pointless."

Obviously, this is a case that varies from person to person, and isn't an absolute overview of the situation from my eyes.

But I'll close with this summary: People who say you want a smaller Batfamily? If Jason and Damian had stayed dead, you'd get your smaller Batfamily. It may not be with the characters you want, but you'd have it.

This is the dark secret of most comic book fans. Focus on my favorites, kill off/humiliate/write out everyone else.

[Rise]

I'm not really sure if this counts as an opinion; it's more of a quandary, really.

Some people say that the Batfamily is too big. They say that too many new characters get introduced and it needs to be sized down.

That's a fine and valid opinion, even if I don't agree with it.

But these same people I find are generally ones who are glad that Damian and Jason came back to life, despite the former's resurrection going against what the character's creator wanted, and the latter's, at the time especially, ruining a major part of the Batmythos.

You are sure becoming more subtle, unclepulky. It's definitely less direct than the one time when you said that Jason fans are either his fans because of the movie or dudebros loving gunz who thinks that they are coolz. Which makes me wonder, where did you meet these Jason fans..oh sorry....the people who were glad that Jason is alive who thinks that the batfamily should be sized down? Here? Twitter? Instagram? Because I know people from different part of the social media and I don't see anyone caring about this issue. I definitely couldn’t care less about it because I only care about reading good stories.

Also, the whole issue about Jason's death and how he should have stayed dead which I'm getting really sick of it.

First, most of the batfamily have dead at some point so if the issue of comics death and its permanently concerns you so much, how about you give up one of your favorite characters who died and kill them permanently? You wouldn't agree, right? So, what makes Jason fans less deserving to enjoy having their favorite around than the rest? (This question is to everyone who complain about it)

Second, how did Jason return from death ruin the Batmythos? Did they suddenly changed it to Jason never had died and Batman mourning him all these years was for nothing without me knowing? Because last time I checked Jason is still killed by the joker, Batman still changed after it and both are still haunted by it. So, what was ruined?

[Godlike13]

The Batfamily is too big. The Batfamily doesn't really need multiple not Robins and not Batgirls that more or less can do many of the same things. DC doesn't even know what to do with a big family. They have repeatedly show this time and time again. They bastardize each other, few actually even compliment Batman anymore, and too many are around just to be around.
Answer isn't to just simply jettison members though, sure cutting some of the fat will help, but they also need to find more unique directions and purposes for the members. Which is of course is easier said then done. And they all don't need to necessarily be part of the family. Like Jason for instance. Personally i think it would serve him better to be out side the family, not necessarily opposed, but not on speed dial or part of the group either. Like I would much rather see Jason tell them to F off in a Bat event then see him come in to be wallpaper. That would strike my interest more then having him just be there to do nothing really. Batwoman too i much preferred when she was her own independent thing, and not an agent of Batman.