Sina Grace's Iceman returns in September

[Sighphi]

I think others have said it, but Marvel is most likely hoping that the audience who found the trades will be interested in the new series as opposed to just assuming the general market will somehow respond better outside of that audience.

If we go by the numbers we got the floppies sold 10 times better than the TPB and if those people come the bump is going to be minimal

I'm mostly staying out of this thread (and others) because of how pointless it is to deal with people who will never learn as they continue to spout toxic nonsense, but since you're misinformed and no one has given a proper response yet, I'll explain.

I'm not sure if that 900 number from Diamond is true as I haven't looked myself. However, even if it is, as many of the bigots on this forum choose to ignore, Diamond numbers are only estimates of books shipped in the direct market. Iceman (and Unstoppable Wasp) are being brought back because they did very well in trade sales outside of the direct market (Amazon, book stores, etc) and, like all numbers from every publisher, we do not have access to them.

So the question is, why would the comic companies celebrate these numbers and never show the true numbers?

Why keep that hidden? If the book is doing that well in those other places why even sell to comic stores where they get low orders?
Is it to take up space in stores to keep appearances?

[Skedatz]

Im expecting it to happen but just as a one night stand.

That's pretty much what I suspect would really happen.

Bobby ends up with Daken, sorta regrets it, and then solid ice's the guy and moves on.

[Skedatz]

If we go by the numbers we got the floppies sold 10 times better than the TPB and if those people come the bump is going to be minimal




So the question is, why would the comic companies celebrate these numbers and never show the true numbers?

Why keep that hidden? If the book is doing that well in those other places why even sell to comic stores where they get low orders?
Is it to take up space in stores to keep appearances?

Ten times better according to Diamond. The sales Diamond doesn't/can't keep track of is probably where Marvel sees the market interest.


In regards to the numbers, comic companies never have really revealed numbers for reasons all their own probably having to do more with why they charge the way they do and probably wage stuff. It's not like DC doesn't reveal Batman sales because they're embarrassed or something.

[Assam]

Why keep that hidden? If the book is doing that well in those other places why even sell to comic stores where they get low orders?
Is it to take up space in stores to keep appearances?

Others have said this already, I already said it and I'm going to say it one more time: No publisher releases their numbers for ANY titles. They are not keeping anything hidden. It simply isn't a practice of the industry to release these numbers. The only reason anyone is calling for them to show them here, and not in the case of all the low-selling titles which star straight white males that get more chances, is because they're insecure enough as to feel threatened by the existence of these books. Frankly, I'm reminded of people demanding to see Obama's birth certificate.

As to your other questions, Skedatz already answered that part. They're likely hoping for a carry-over from the trade readers so they can have more streams of revenue. You dismissed that because of the 900 number, but as we've already gone over, that number is meaningless.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

I meant/thought Grace could pick up a more reformed Daken from after his stint on Laura's book. Grace clarified that his take on Daken in the first arc took place before the events in Laura's book, and the Bobby/Daken kiss that "froze" the Seed () was the beginning of the thaw in Daken's edge (...that also sounds like an innuendo).

But yeah, I encourage pre-ordering the hell out of this anyway.

https://i.imgur.com/V8rD3Lx.gif

One complaint with Sina's book was (much like all the other Relaunch books) didn't pay attention to the stories in the other books.

I liked the story, but didn't care much for his Bobby voice. He went from a little awkward to flamboyantly "stereotypically" gay.. It was a little over the top for me

Wasn't just you.

A book wins critical acclaims and nods, has several teenagers and closeted and proudly out individuals across the world writing in about how much it meant to them, possibly did good in digital and TPB sales.

you can buy a book without identifying with any of the characters and lol at the "how much it meant to them"...it had a good coming out issue, but it wasn't the best

[Skedatz]

I didn't really find Bobby as stereotypical flamboyant gay so much as I saw him as, "That older guy who always imitates what seems hip and new to today's youth," which is pretty keeping with his character. It isn't like he was going around with feather boas with bright pink belly shirts saying stuff like, "Giiiiiirl! You would NOT believe the makeup and shoe sales I got down on!"

[kcekada]

A book wins critical acclaims and nods, has several teenagers and closeted and proudly out individuals across the world writing in about how much it meant to them, possibly did good in digital and TPB sales.

And haters be like, "HOW DARE WE GET A FOLLOW-UP TO SOMETHING THAT'S NOT ALL ABOUT ME?!"

Ideally, the writer would have created stories that appealed to not one niche audience. As a superhero book or even X-book, this book stunk on ice (pun possibly intendedd). Good writers build on the past -- they don't ignore it.

I hope that at least he's all ice -- and not wearing his outfit over the ice -- that was about as stupid as Iron Man once having a nose on his helmet.

[kcekada]

I never saw Bobby as gay. Save your time and energy on trying to convince me otherwise on that subject. I also do not see them retconning the character back either.

For the series to succeed and not just assume people will buy it they need to give us a proper version of the character. Iceman was and is fun loving, comedic occasionally goofy and when the situation arose could be a serious character imo. The new series had the character and like too many other comic characters recently at Marvel come across as bitter, angry, terrible people you would not want to save their lives and whom the writer seemed so intent on spitting in the face of the word superhero it's no wonder it sold poorly and not many people were reading to keep the first run alive. With all due respect I want to read superheros not characters who are terrible human being and to me at least seemed written as one step removed from being villains. The can write good stories from now to the end of the world it won't sell well if the main character is unlikable imo.

Amen. I did not recognize a character I had know and liked would over 30 years! This book seriously lacked in fun and adventure -- two things I've long associated with the character. Instead of getting a comic about a superhero who happened to be gay, we got a comic about a gay guy who happened to be a superhero.

[Kurolegacy]

Ideally, the writer would have created stories that appealed to not one niche audience. As a superhero book or even X-book, this book stunk on ice (pun possibly intendedd). Good writers build on the past -- they don't ignore it.

I hope that at least he's all ice -- and not wearing his outfit over the ice -- that was about as stupid as Iron Man once having a nose on his helmet.

For me, the annoying thing was the voice he wrote for Bobby sounded nothing like Bobby. He sounded overly flamboyant and it read more like a Will and Grace parody than anything superhero related. Just comparing young Bobby by anyone and adult Bobby here is like night and day.

[Sighphi]

Ten times better according to Diamond. The sales Diamond doesn't/can't keep track of is probably where Marvel sees the market interest.


In regards to the numbers, comic companies never have really revealed numbers for reasons all their own probably having to do more with why they charge the way they do and probably wage stuff. It's not like DC doesn't reveal Batman sales because they're embarrassed or something.

As to your other questions, Skedatz already answered that part. They're likely hoping for a carry-over from the trade readers so they can have more streams of revenue. You dismissed that because of the 900 number, but as we've already gone over, that number is meaningless.

So why do they promote the diamond numbers when they are big? Why don't they just ignore it all together?

Others have said this already, I already said it and I'm going to say it one more time: No publisher releases their numbers for ANY titles. They are not keeping anything hidden. It simply isn't a practice of the industry to release these numbers. The only reason anyone is calling for them to show them here, and not in the case of all the low-selling titles which star straight white males that get more chances, is because they're insecure enough as to feel threatened by the existence of these books. Frankly, I'm reminded of people demanding to see Obama's birth certificate.

Can you show a list of these "straight white male" main books getting 10k orders that get canceled and relaunched with the same team constantly?

[Skedatz]

So why do they promote the diamond numbers when they are big? Why don't they just ignore it all together?


Can you show a list of these "straight white male" main books getting 10k orders that get canceled and relaunched with the same team constantly?

Because if they didn't use Diamond to indicate that sort of thing they'd have to give up their personal numbers which they won't do.


Nor do they really offer up Diamond numbers as a big example. At least I can't really think of any.


I wanted to add the practice of relaunching a book like this is pretty uncommon in comics. Usually the industry waits a while and just relaunches the book in a different direction since it didn't do well beforehand. In this case the comic DID do well, just in a different way, and is looking to continue whatever qualified as success to continue those sales. And the larger practice of contract writing and teams also has disrupted how the industry sort of writes comics.

[danielsan52]

all male orgy




j/k


Cloud to return.


His Champions costume to return.

[tornshattered]

I really loved the first series, so I'll try to provide some constructive criticism
I didn't like Sina Grace Mary-Sueing Bobby. (Bobby suddenly started hating accountancy - some of us gays actually like maths!) He felt a bit like Cyclops under Fraction's pen. It may just be me, but his characterisation felt a bit forced at times, as if the writer was trying to stuff himself inside the character (the actress said to the bishop...)

I also hope with the major drama of coming out over, the series can focus on being about Bobby as a person, not just a gay man. He doesn't need to be a gay martyr or a NYC pride grandmarshall. In other words, I have a couple of pals who only talk about being gay, they always make this big deal about their sexuality and try to skew every conversation into a long moan about being oppressed in the society. The first series was starting to feel a bit like that. To quote the Real O'Neals: "Not everything is about you being gay, Kenny!!" He has major issues which have been touched by Liu's AXM and Carey's adjectiveless. His self destructive tendencies, his bottled up anger, that doesn't just stem from repressing his sexuality. I know Grace broached these subjects, but I think the story should be fleshed out. I really liked this panel in the final issue: Screen Shot 2018-06-14 at 19.21.31.jpg Sina did a great job there.

Also, I didn't like how Kitty was his go-to person, even though they hadn't dated for that long and they hadn't been very close before. Rogue, Sam, Lorna, Warren and Hank could have filled that role far better.

Finally, I am hoping for something brutal to happen. The best stories are the tragic ones. I love Bobby, therefore I want him to suffer, be put through hell and come out the other side stronger. I have high hopes for the Morlocks arc. I hope it pits Bobby against someone like Sinister and it does not go well. Give me pain, make me sad, make me cry, make me angry. The volume resonated with me due to my troubled relationship with my parents. I want this volume to crush me and give me hope. Take me out of my world and astound me, Sina!!

[Hi-Fi]

His friendship with Rogue and Sam.
Emma.
Hercules.

[Anduinel]

Nor do they really offer up Diamond numbers as a big example. At least I can't really think of any.

It's typically the opposite, with pros pointing out that the Diamond sales estimates are just estimates and not even a very accurate picture of direct market sales. Usually if companies are bringing up sales as a positive, it'll be something like "this book went back to print X many times" or something huge like a book getting over 500K in pre-orders, or even something as basic as saying "it sold better in trade/digital than in print." Not much in the way of specific numbers.