Why are DC's minority character's lagging behind Marvel's?

[skyvolt2000]

When I look at the sales of the current secondary "Justice Team" (Justice League of America), I kind of doubt that a 3rd team would do that great.

Btw. if you look at both current leagues together you have actually apart from Native American all ethnicities that Red Wolf listed.

At some point you have to say BLEEP sales.

Because you can not control what a store will sale once you make it or how rude employees will be if you try to buy it.

Sometimes you have to say I will at LEAST try and stop this being scared of nutty youtubers who burn comics or trolls who act like if you are not a certain demo-you have no business in comics.

6 issues of a more diverse team is FINE with me.

12 issues of Vixen-FINE

I rather see an effort to make them versus excuses to not do it.

[kurenai24]

So you know how the Justice League movie comes out in November, do you guys think the reception to the character of Cyborg will change what DC does with the character?

Like, I truly believe the reception to the character of Cyborg will be nothing, and the only thing that may be talked about is his relationship with the Flash which wouldn't be something soley about him.

I feel like all the other characters will have something that the audience will remember them by but Cyborg doesn't or will only have his relationship with the Flash to make him memorable.

I don't know if a so-so reception or even a negative reception will have DC making changes with what they're doing with the Cyborg character or even throwing the character away and replacing him with another.

I hope they actually take some action b/c depending on the reception, we're gonna get think pieces about how the only black character only has a flesh face or the character that isn't racebent brings nothing new to the table. Hell, I expect there to be articles about the fact that Wonder Woman is the only female on the team and what is up with DC and Marvel with the lack of females team hero groups etc.

So what do you guys think, do you guys believe media attention will have DC actually doing something with Cyborg or will it be just another day.

[Robotman]

So you know how the Justice League movie comes out in November, do you guys think the reception to the character of Cyborg will change what DC does with the character?

Like, I truly believe the reception to the character of Cyborg will be nothing, and the only thing that may be talked about is his relationship with the Flash which wouldn't be something soley about him.

I feel like all the other characters will have something that the audience will remember them by but Cyborg doesn't or will only have his relationship with the Flash to make him memorable.

I don't know if a so-so reception or even a negative reception will have DC making changes with what they're doing with the Cyborg character or even throwing the character away and replacing him with another.

I hope they actually take some action b/c depending on the reception, we're gonna get think pieces about how the only black character only has a flesh face or the character that isn't racebent brings nothing new to the table. Hell, I expect there to be articles about the fact that Wonder Woman is the only female on the team and what is up with DC and Marvel with the lack of females team hero groups etc.

So what do you guys think, do you guys believe media attention will have DC actually doing something with Cyborg or will it be just another day.

Well you’re basing that off of nothing having not seen the movie.

The Justice League cast is actually pretty diverse. Jason Momoa is half Hawaiian (and apparently a quarter Native American), Ezra Miller is openly bi-sexual, Gal is from Israel.

The Suicide Squad cast was even more diverse.

[Johnny]

The Suicide Squad cast was even more diverse.

And there were complaints about that as well. There were articles whining about stereotyping such as the Mexican guy being a cholo or the Asian girl being a samurai. I remember someone was even complaining that Chato and his family were celebrating Day of The Dead. They were also complaining that he used to be an abusive husband which was apparently an offensive stereotype too. They don't seem to care about any type of character development as long as they get to push their agenda. This type of people think they are far more important than they actually are, so to me it doesn't make a lot of sense to try to please them. I have mixed feelings about SS too, but it was obviously a crowd pleaser and in the end that's the only thing that matters with JL too. But I don't think it would have much of an effect on Cyborg in the comics beyond further solidifying him as a JL member/founder.

[Sodam Yat]

Well you’re basing that off of nothing having not seen the movie.

The Justice League cast is actually pretty diverse. Jason Momoa is half Hawaiian (and apparently a quarter Native American), Ezra Miller is openly bi-sexual, Gal is from Israel.

The Suicide Squad cast was even more diverse.

To be fair, the only real diverse person on the roster is Jason Momoa. Erza Miller may be openly bi-sexual, but that's not the role he's playing as. Gal being from Israel doesn't change the fact that she's of European descent.

Suicide Squad? Personally I'm looking for real high quality minority heroes.

[Agent Z]

To be fair, the only real diverse person on the roster is Jason Momoa. Erza Miller may be openly bi-sexual, but that's not the role he's playing as. Gal being from Israel doesn't change the fact that she's of European descent.

Suicide Squad? Personally I'm looking for real high quality minority heroes.

Um, what? Look, I get it if people don't like Cyborg but discounting him as a minority is just ridiculous. Also, hasn't Gadot been referred to as mixed race?

[The Darknight Detective]

Um, what? Look, I get it if people don't like Cyborg but discounting him as a minority is just ridiculous. Also, hasn't Gadot been referred to as mixed race?

Yes. Without a doubt, he's a minority.

[Sodam Yat]

Um, what? Look, I get it if people don't like Cyborg but discounting him as a minority is just ridiculous. Also, hasn't Gadot been referred to as mixed race?

I like Cyborg

I think you misunderstood, mate. Of course Cyborg is minority. I never brought him up in my last post, because it's obvious. I'm pretty sure Robotman didn't list Cyborg, because of the same reasons. It's certainly not due to me having some kind of agenda against the character.

I should've said "other than Cyborg..." in my post.

Gal Gadot is of European Jewish descent, mixed with other European ancestries.

[Doctor Bifrost]

The Justice League cast is actually pretty diverse. Jason Momoa is half Hawaiian (and apparently a quarter Native American), Ezra Miller is openly bi-sexual, Gal is from Israel.

There can, in some cases, be a real difference between diverse characters and a diverse cast.

Jason Momoa's mixed ethnicity shows through to some extent in his appearance, regardless of what Aquaman is "meant" to be (Atlantean). So I see some diversity in the character there. But you can't tell Ezra Miller's sexual orientation just by looking at him, and I'd bet good money he's not playing a bisexual character. Gal Gadot is from Israel, and is Jewish, but she's not playing a Jewish character, and almost everyone simply sees her as white.

There are always nuances. Jews were not always considered "white" in this country, and there are some people who insist that they're not. But I don't think we're getting a very diverse JL here, except for Cyborg and, to some extent, Aquaman. We are seeing some greater acceptance of diversity in the casting process, since they were willing to consider a bisexual actor - but in my opinion that doesn't really translate to the screen.

I have very mixed feelings about Cyborg. I liked him as a member of the Titans. His insertion as a founding member of the JL always felt like a bad fit to me, like checking off a box. It subtracted from him his relationship to the Titans, which had been a key aspect of his character, but I don't think they've really developed a corresponding relationship to the other JL members at all. And his solo series simply hasn't impressed me; I find it hard to remember what's happening from month to month.

I completely understand the desire, when recreating the JL from its origin up, to include more ethnically diverse characters in it, and I think that's a good idea. (It could do with some more women, too.) But I think Black Lightning would have been a better choice. Many readers would remember his longer history with Batman and others - even if its status in current continuity was vague - and he wouldn't have lost something that many readers cherish (like Cyborg's connection to the Titans). I do realize there's some issues with Tony Isabella, but I still think he would have been a better fit.

But that's just me.

[MoneySpider]

So you know how the Justice League movie comes out in November, do you guys think the reception to the character of Cyborg will change what DC does with the character?

Like, I truly believe the reception to the character of Cyborg will be nothing, and the only thing that may be talked about is his relationship with the Flash which wouldn't be something soley about him.

I feel like all the other characters will have something that the audience will remember them by but Cyborg doesn't or will only have his relationship with the Flash to make him memorable.

I don't know if a so-so reception or even a negative reception will have DC making changes with what they're doing with the Cyborg character or even throwing the character away and replacing him with another.

I hope they actually take some action b/c depending on the reception, we're gonna get think pieces about how the only black character only has a flesh face or the character that isn't racebent brings nothing new to the table. Hell, I expect there to be articles about the fact that Wonder Woman is the only female on the team and what is up with DC and Marvel with the lack of females team hero groups etc.

So what do you guys think, do you guys believe media attention will have DC actually doing something with Cyborg or will it be just another day.

It will probably be just another day for Cyborg and his fans and a celebration for Aquaman fans because it seems like Aquaman could steal the show.

[ed2962]

It will probably be just another day for Cyborg and his fans and a celebration for Aquaman fans because it seems like Aquaman could steal the show.

Aquaman is the most interesting thing about any of the JL trailers.

[kurenai24]

Well you’re basing that off of nothing having not seen the movie.

The Justice League cast is actually pretty diverse. Jason Momoa is half Hawaiian (and apparently a quarter Native American), Ezra Miller is openly bi-sexual, Gal is from Israel.

The Suicide Squad cast was even more diverse.

Uhm what?

It doesn't matter that Ezra Miller is bisexual that's not what the Flash is nor does it matter that Gal Gadot is Israeli that's not who Wonder Woman is, they're both playing characters who are straight and white and that's who their representing no matter what they are in their personl life.

And if you read what I said as you think you did, you would see that I mentioned that Aquaman is racebent but the character is still white is he not ...I don't think Aquaman in the comics is Polynesisan now, if you get that then my statement still stands that people are going to question why the black superhero who is actually a minority in origin (and not racebent) does not bring anything new to the table.

How do you know ...based off nothing... uhm what? Are we pretending that DC Comics doesn't talk about this movie and their universe every month or 2? Are we pretending that there aren't articles about this movie or this universe, are we pretending that fan discussions don't exist.... There is literally nothing out there that portrays any hype about Cyborg.

People are happy for this black actor, but nobody black is out there saying, 'I can't wait for this representation', sure in the beginning they were happy that a black hero was gonna get his own movie but that's b/c that is what they were stuck with at the time but Black Panther has blown it away when it was announced shortly after.

Also let's not confuse being happy that there will be a superhero movie about a black hero as being the same as being happy that you'll get representation.

It really doesn't take a genius to guess what the reaction to the character will be from audience and critics/media.

Batman - You either love the character or you hate him, and ultimately he's still the most popular DC hero, but critics are looking at his characterization as it relates to how dark or light DCEU is.

Wonder Woman - She's literally the only female on this team, and that will be brought up later down the line in articles, right now tho the hype is about her being a strong female character, being just as strong if not stronger as some of the boys, and being centered in the marketing.

The Flash - He's young, he's cute, he's obviously gonna be a fan favorite if the rumors about the testing group are anything to go by.

Aquaman - He's hot, and his character will not be the butt of any jokes, he's gonna be flashy, the things he will be doing is going to hype his own movie, he might also be a fan favorite.

Superman - If he's in this movie in any capacity, he's the surprise, the plot twist and just like Batman they'll look at his characterization to see if he's finally the superman of their childhood, DCEU is gonna stop the grimdark.

Cyborg - What reason is there to pay attention to this character, oh his origin, but every superhero gets an origin, oh his relationship with The Flash, I'm sure that will be fun but I'm also positive Barry's relationship with other characters will be talked about or maybe it's the fact that he's on the Justice League team and he's not a sidekick character like Falcon or War Machine ...hmm true, but we need to only wait till February for a better black superhero, who will get his own movie and will be on a superhero team in the future, we all can wait for that.

Which brings up my original statement and question what is DC gonna do if there is no buzz around the character of Cyborg, what are they gonna do if there is a negative buzz, are they gonna do anything no matter what type of buzz Cyborg gets or will it just be another day for comic Cyborg in dealing with DC's half hearted attempts to make him more than what he actually is i.e a supporting character, basically depending on the reception of Cyborg do you believe DC will change how they handle the character?

Now I don't know why you brought up Suicide Squad, maybe it was b/c I pointed out Cyborg's race and Wonder Woman's gender but Suicide Squad is not something for DC to pat themselves on the back with either, the team had a racebent character which I'm fine with but the actual characters who are minorities in the comics books were fails, one was a Latino stereotype with a common Latino power i.e fire, and then Katana didn't really do much, oh there were 2 women on the team congrats for one upping Marvel, but that's still not good enough.

Anyway...I really didn't think I would have to break down my original post like this, I thought everything was understandable enough.

To be fair, the only real diverse person on the roster is Jason Momoa. Erza Miller may be openly bi-sexual, but that's not the role he's playing as. Gal being from Israel doesn't change the fact that she's of European descent.

Suicide Squad? Personally I'm looking for real high quality minority heroes.

Yes you get it, just b/c an actor is something doesn't mean that's what their character is, Cameron Diaz is latina that doesn't mean every character she has portrayed is suddenly Latina, Wentworth Miller is biracial but that doesn't mean his character Michael was only half brothers with Lincoln on Prison Break or that Captain Cold is suddenly half black, Matt Homer is gay that doesn't mean his character on White Collar was in the closet all this time.

Those are what we call "diversity behind the scenes" even if that term is used for directors, writers, and crew members. And when people are talking about repsentation they are talking about the characters they see on screen.

I too am waiting on high quality minority heroes as well.

Aquaman is gonna be great representation for Polynesians and I hope the movie is good but ultimately, it is gonna benefit a white character, so I do hope DC plans on pushing their actual minority heroes so that maybe something more can be done with the characters in the comics.

~~

Jesus f**king Christ, I feel like I just wrote a whole dissertation on my phone.

[kurenai24]

There can, in some cases, be a real difference between diverse characters and a diverse cast.

Jason Momoa's mixed ethnicity shows through to some extent in his appearance, regardless of what Aquaman is "meant" to be (Atlantean). So I see some diversity in the character there. But you can't tell Ezra Miller's sexual orientation just by looking at him, and I'd bet good money he's not playing a bisexual character. Gal Gadot is from Israel, and is Jewish, but she's not playing a Jewish character, and almost everyone simply sees her as white.

There are always nuances. Jews were not always considered "white" in this country, and there are some people who insist that they're not. But I don't think we're getting a very diverse JL here, except for Cyborg and, to some extent, Aquaman. We are seeing some greater acceptance of diversity in the casting process, since they were willing to consider a bisexual actor - but in my opinion that doesn't really translate to the screen.

I have very mixed feelings about Cyborg. I liked him as a member of the Titans. His insertion as a founding member of the JL always felt like a bad fit to me, like checking off a box. It subtracted from him his relationship to the Titans, which had been a key aspect of his character, but I don't think they've really developed a corresponding relationship to the other JL members at all. And his solo series simply hasn't impressed me; I find it hard to remember what's happening from month to month.

I completely understand the desire, when recreating the JL from its origin up, to include more ethnically diverse characters in it, and I think that's a good idea. (It could do with some more women, too.) But I think Black Lightning would have been a better choice. Many readers would remember his longer history with Batman and others - even if its status in current continuity was vague - and he wouldn't have lost something that many readers cherish (like Cyborg's connection to the Titans). I do realize there's some issues with Tony Isabella, but I still think he would have been a better fit.

But that's just me.

This was much more nuance than mine, bravo.

I will say since Tony Isabella is doing a mini with Black Lightning, that right now the relationship with DC is okay, but I don't think Tony is a fan of Black Lightning being in teams or teams his character doesn't lead.

So if DC were to ever actually consider BL for Justice League, him needing to be the leader would probably make them reconsider that.

Ultimately everything is a bit complicated when considering BL.

It will probably be just another day for Cyborg and his fans and a celebration for Aquaman fans because it seems like Aquaman could steal the show.

I just want DC to wake up.

How many years has Cyborg been a part of the Justice League?

[LP22]

Well as long as wally(kid flash) and aqualad are treated great then I'll be happy (both are a nice addition to the dcu)

[ed2962]

This was much more nuance than mine, bravo.

I will say since Tony Isabella is doing a mini with Black Lightning, that right now the relationship with DC is okay, but I don't think Tony is a fan of Black Lightning being in teams or teams his character doesn't lead.

So if DC were to ever actually consider BL for Justice League, him needing to be the leader would probably make them reconsider that.

Ultimately everything is a bit complicated when considering BL.



I just want DC to wake up.

How many years has Cyborg been a part of the Justice League?

It's ironic that some years ago the Brad Metzger JLA was pretty diverse. Both Vixen and BL were on the team and 4 out of 10 members were female. Some fans would be screaming bloody murder at such a line these days.