Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch) stand trial for House of M ?.

[jackolover]

Wanda had been made temporarily to forget about her kids. She had remembered sometime later and dealt with the loss. That was 15 years before Disassembled. Jan didn't cause that. That was Bendis not reading the whole story.

Who knows? Maybe Agatha Harkness had to do supplementary psychological treatments we don’t know about, and that’s what went wrong?

[Ultimate Captain America]

A group of people with a common identity has formed a nation of their own, and there's the issue of what to do with hose who commited crimes against them in the past. Magneto may tell a story or two to X-Force about the exploits of the Mossad, the Simon Wiesenthal Center and other Nazi hunters.

[GenericUsername]

Who knows? Maybe Agatha Harkness had to do supplementary psychological treatments we don’t know about, and that’s what went wrong?

Agatha was out of Wanda's story for a long time after that. Until the whole you can bring back Simon with your love thing.

[jackolover]

Just a note here, there is some ambiguity about what happened to Agatha.

Actually, Brian Bendis and Tom Brevoort said explicitly that that wasn't what happened. The idea in that scene was that Agatha had been dead for years and that every time we saw her since the '90s at least, it was Wanda subconsciously creating an illusion of her.

This is what Strange meant when he said (in "Avengers Disassembled") that there is no such thing as chaos magic. It was Agatha who told Wanda, in Busiek's run, that her powers were actually chaos magic. But no one saw or heard Agatha in those scenes except Wanda. (Which actually makes me wonder if those scenes were setting up a possible reveal that it wasn't really Agatha, and it just never happened until Disassembled.) And when Agatha was revealed to be dead, it meant those scenes were Wanda's magical delusion.

But because the scene was so confusingly written/drawn, many people thought Wanda killed Agatha and this has actually found its way into several comics. So the original intent may not even matter any more.

Thanks for the clarification about Agatha. I’ll have to think about that.

So if Wanda’s powers aren’t Chaos Magic, what are they? Are there more descriptions on how Wanda does things, than magic? I’d be interested in knowing what Dr Strange says, and, in Wanda’s ANAD series it was stated she had Female related powers?

And even if it wasn’t magic, how did Wanda recreate House of M, and, make mutants lose their powers?

[GenericUsername]

Just a note here, there is some ambiguity about what happened to Agatha.

Actually, Brian Bendis and Tom Brevoort said explicitly that that wasn't what happened. The idea in that scene was that Agatha had been dead for years and that every time we saw her since the '90s at least, it was Wanda subconsciously creating an illusion of her.

This is what Strange meant when he said (in "Avengers Disassembled") that there is no such thing as chaos magic. It was Agatha who told Wanda, in Busiek's run, that her powers were actually chaos magic. But no one saw or heard Agatha in those scenes except Wanda. (Which actually makes me wonder if those scenes were setting up a possible reveal that it wasn't really Agatha, and it just never happened until Disassembled.) And when Agatha was revealed to be dead, it meant those scenes were Wanda's magical delusion.

But because the scene was so confusingly written/drawn, many people thought Wanda killed Agatha and this has actually found its way into several comics. So the original intent may not even matter any more.

I think the truth about Agatha is she's been an entity all along. Because of living during the Salem Witch trials, being burned, coming back. She's not really able to be killed.

[GenericUsername]

Thanks for the clarification about Agatha. I’ll have to think about that.

So if Wanda’s powers aren’t Chaos Magic, what are they? Are there more descriptions on how Wanda does things, than magic? I’d be interested in knowing what Dr Strange says, and, in Wanda’s ANAD series it was stated she had Female related powers?

They are chaos magic. Doctor Strange had used it just before this himself. It was just a poorly researched story. They corrected it by having Pietro possessed by Chthon to state that it does still exist.

[gurkle]

There's also a Bendis-written issue of Avengers (#26, where Hawkeye may or may not have slept with Wanda, who may or may not have been retconned into being a Doombot) where Strange refers to her powers as "chaos magic."

The fact is, the definition of her powers changes from writer to writer and sometimes in runs by the same writer. But most modern writers seem to accept the basic point that those Busiek issues made, which is that her mutant power has some kind of inherent magic element to it. Which is different from the old idea that she was just a mutant whose power resembled magic.

[Ultimate Captain America]

Agatha has also been with the FF as Franklin's nanny in the 1990s. The Scarlet Witch was nowhere near all that. Was that also an illusion?

As for Chaos magic, I have heard there was a retcon somewhere that Strange denied having knowledge about it because there was an attempt to weaken someone by avoiding any mention of Chaos magic, or something like that.

[GenericUsername]

Agatha has also been with the FF as Franklin's nanny in the 1990s. The Scarlet Witch was nowhere near all that. Was that also an illusion?

Magic can do all sorts of stuff. So she either gave herself never-ending life, or is a projection.

[GenericUsername]

There's also a Bendis-written issue of Avengers (#26, where Hawkeye may or may not have slept with Wanda, who may or may not have been retconned into being a Doombot) where Strange refers to her powers as "chaos magic."

The fact is, the definition of her powers changes from writer to writer and sometimes in runs by the same writer. But most modern writers seem to accept the basic point that those Busiek issues made, which is that her mutant power has some kind of inherent magic element to it. Which is different from the old idea that she was just a mutant whose power resembled magic.

Negative, her mutant power was established as just energy wielding. Nothing to do with magic. Her natural magic was established as Chthonic under the general umbrella of chaos magic.

[gurkle]

Negative, her mutant power was established as just energy wielding. Nothing to do with magic. Her natural magic was established as Chthonic under the general umbrella of chaos magic.

Oh, OK. So her mutant power is to control energy, but because of the Chthon thing, the energy she controls is magical (as opposed to her father and half-sister, whose energy is magnetic).

[teapartyofthedead]

They are chaos magic. Doctor Strange had used it just before this himself. It was just a poorly researched story. They corrected it by having Pietro possessed by Chthon to state that it does still exist.

That was in Mighty Avengers, the Wasp Hank team. Curiously, it was stated that Chthon was able to possess him because he had the blood of Magda. I like to think it is just further evidence that Natalya Maximoff is just Magda after getting lost in the cold after leaving the twins with Bova. She just got partial amnesia wandering the Witches Road.

[GenericUsername]

That was in Mighty Avengers, the Wasp Hank team. Curiously, it was stated that Chthon was able to possess him because he had the blood of Magda. I like to think it is just further evidence that Natalya Maximoff is just Magda after getting lost in the cold after leaving the twins with Bova. She just got partial amnesia wandering the Witches Road.

Plot twist, Pietro is also a Nexus Being, lol. I think they just switched moms. It says pretty much how they feel about them, when they make them so interchangeable. They did the same pretty much with Madeline Joyce, when they retconned in Magda. Only Madeline was her own character long before.

[BroHomo]

A group of people with a common identity has formed a nation of their own, and there's the issue of what to do with hose who commited crimes against them in the past. Magneto may tell a story or two to X-Force about the exploits of the Mossad, the Simon Wiesenthal Center and other Nazi hunters.

interesting comparison

[teapartyofthedead]

It’s a big part of why I want Magda to be bough back. She survived the Holocaust and wandering alone pregnant until she froze to death to keep Magneto from finding the twins. Everything we know is from Max or Bova. I want to know more about her, and why Chthon found her so fascinating about her offspring. Not Magneto’s children, but the children of Magda! Let’s see why he thought Magda was so potent that while he didn’t or couldn’t use her as a vessel, but her children would be perfect. Or was it the combined blood of Magda and Magneto, magic and science, that made the Maximoff twins as suitable skin suits for a elder demon god of chaos?

Wand was the best choice, but Pietro was the spare in case something happened to Wanda, I guess.