Do you have a problem with retroactive diversity for DC's heroes?

[Lightning Rider]

Eh I don't know, for me DCEU Aquaman works. As someone who didn't grow up royalty, him just seeing like a regular guy makes sense. I'm willing to give him the chance I gave DCEU Superman to "grow into" the role.

I think because of every other aspect of his appearance, it's much easier to digest. Wally West for example doesn't have a striking or distinguished enough appearance as a civilian out of costume to survive a drastic race change and still be recognizable.

[Agent Z]

One that proved to backfire on them in a big way.

Its a shame because I think it would have been truly incredible for DC to introduce the first ever African American Kid Flash. Unfortunately they fumbled it by trying to make him into an all out replacement for a character who was much beloved by the fans. And even now that he isn't technically a replacement for OG Wally, he himself as a character is tainted by that. IMO, it would have been just straight up more appealing if DC had decided to create him as an all new original character, completely unrelated to the Wests or the Allens or the Garricks.

As for the larger issue of race bending, Joe Quesada actually said something at NYCC that I completely agreed with. He basically said that diversity is only really true when its organic and comes from the story as opposed to attempting to fill minority "quotas." And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why DC's practice of changing established characters' race is offensive, not just from the perspective of fans of the established character as they were but also even to the members of the minority they're trying to appeal to. Think about it. We all know that the true thought process behind NuWally wasn't an earnest attempt at conveying the African American perspective. It was the folks at DC thinking to themselves "quick, what's the easiest way to look like we're not racists?"

But race bending is in itself, racist. It assumes that true diversity can be achieved by simply slapping a new skin color on a previously white character and calling it a day. That's not true at all. Black Panther, John Stewart, Steel, Static, Jaime Reyes, etc. were all true and meaningful attempts at diversity because they attempted to bring previously unheard perspectives to the table. In the case of NuWally, it was basically the writers saying "oh well, if Wally were a black guy, he'd obviously be a hood, right?" in probably the most disgustingly stereotypical way possible. It was as misguided as that famous issue from the 70s where Lois Lane "tries on" being a black woman.

Technically, they already had an African American Kid Flash in Jenni Ognats, Bart's cousin.

Racebending can be a double edged sword. On the one hand it does increase diversity. On the other it can be used as an excuse to not use characters that were already minorities

[Dr. Ellingham]

Further, someone, somewhere decided "changing this character to make him more diverse is more important that anything else. I know whats best for the audience even if theyre not enlightened. So... immediately not supporting that type of arrogant ideologue.

Yes, the savior complex. "Listen to me! Look at the world the way I do!!"

No. I'll think for myself, thanks.

Its not something you just slap on a character that has zero cultural capitol established ans say "aahhh diversity", but just the kyle rayner story alone shows that they feel it is... or that people are stupid. So yeah, I have a problem with it in multiple levels, but ultimately its because in my heart I know its wrong.

Beautifully said.

Younger generations, as they come up, totally get it. All the whining about - "There's only one Asian American in this fictional story it's so wrong omg" is rooted in 20th Century social history. Not today. Or the future. I try to think of what my future descendants would be proud of, and act that way.

[Agent Z]

Yes, the savior complex. "Listen to me! Look at the world the way I do!!"

No. I'll think for myself, thanks.

By this logic, every writer has a savior complex because their writing is influenced entirely by their view of the world.

Beautifully said.

Younger generations, as they come up, totally get it. All the whining about - "There's only one Asian American in this fictional story it's so wrong omg" is rooted in 20th Century social history. Not today. Or the future. I try to think of what my future descendants would be proud of, and act that way.

I feel you have a greatly misinformed view of the younger generations. Your future descendants are going to be exposed to a more diverse world and are going to expect that to be reflected in their fiction to some extent.

[Aahz]

Eh I don't know, for me DCEU Aquaman works. As someone who didn't grow up royalty, him just seeing like a regular guy makes sense. I'm willing to give him the chance I gave DCEU Superman to "grow into" the role.

I'm anyway wondering if the ethnicity of the actor will be acknowledged in some way. Since based on the look he could still pass a white imo.

[Ascended]

Eh I don't know, for me DCEU Aquaman works. As someone who didn't grow up royalty, him just seeing like a regular guy makes sense. I'm willing to give him the chance I gave DCEU Superman to "grow into" the role.

Same here.

They're obviously pulling heavily from the Peter David 90's era, and I really enjoyed that run. I also don't know how long he's been sitting on the throne, or if he's even taken the crown yet. So those rough edges might not have been polished off yet.

And ultimately, I've only seen two trailers. I don't know enough about this Orin to really judge one way or the other. All I can say is that he doesn't seem too broody or angst-filled, which the current version is. Aquamoa seems a little more "rough neck" than the current version.....but not so far off from what we've seen in various origin and "Year One" type stories.

Aquamoa is certainly a bigger, louder personality than Orin is usually depicted....but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think to overcome the public's preconceived notions of who and what Aquaman is, Aquamoa has to be a little louder.

I think this Aquaman is going to be different from anything we've seen in the comics....but so far it seems like he'll still be within the character's wheelhouse, with traits taken from different points in history and put back together to make a new Aquaman, but one built from precedence.

[mace11]

I'm anyway wondering if the ethnicity of the actor will be acknowledged in some way. Since based on the look he could still pass a white imo.

He may look near white however but He can't pass for white.
When i first saw him in the stargate spin off i said to myself this guy is not white.
I think the dreadlocks he had on the show reinforce that for me however.
Even in the conan reboot film he did not look white to me.
Anyway if someone thinks someone could pass for white for example you might as well called that person white since race is what you look like phenotype wise.

[Spidercide]

It depends upon the character and how it's done.

If it's something like Kyle Raynor or Dick Grayson then cool.

If it's being done in order to get greater diversity but contradicts older stories in an egregious way or else compromizes pre-existing aspects of their mythos and relationships then no. Like if they retconned a character so that their father was someone else and an integral story point is that they inherited traits from their biological Dad then that's not okay. Similarly if you like have a case like that but you are changing them so their heritage is no longer from marginalized group A but now from marginalzed group B. That's not cool either.

Pulling continuity reboots for characters so they are now providing greater diversity again depends on a character per character basis.

[Spidercide]

I think because of every other aspect of his appearance, it's much easier to digest. Wally West for example doesn't have a striking or distinguished enough appearance as a civilian out of costume to survive a drastic race change and still be recognizable.

Will Wally there is a certain visual element to be taken into account because as Kid Flash his red hair was legitimately part of balancing out the colour scheme of his red and yellow costume. That being said there are poc people with natural red hair, let alone those who dye their hair.

[Flash Gordon]

Same here.

They're obviously pulling heavily from the Peter David 90's era, and I really enjoyed that run. I also don't know how long he's been sitting on the throne, or if he's even taken the crown yet. So those rough edges might not have been polished off yet.

And ultimately, I've only seen two trailers. I don't know enough about this Orin to really judge one way or the other. All I can say is that he doesn't seem too broody or angst-filled, which the current version is. Aquamoa seems a little more "rough neck" than the current version.....but not so far off from what we've seen in various origin and "Year One" type stories.

Aquamoa is certainly a bigger, louder personality than Orin is usually depicted....but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think to overcome the public's preconceived notions of who and what Aquaman is, Aquamoa has to be a little louder.

I think this Aquaman is going to be different from anything we've seen in the comics....but so far it seems like he'll still be within the character's wheelhouse, with traits taken from different points in history and put back together to make a new Aquaman, but one built from precedence.

I'm fine with Jason Mamoa, I just wish the character was closer to Arthur Curry. I'd love to see Mamoa play Aquaman that isn't a cliche "warrior king". He's a good actor, he could easily pull it off.

It's ironic that they're pulling so heavily from the 90s Aquaman run, since between Geoff Johns, Jeff Parker, and Dan Abnett- we've been in a new Golden Age for Aquaman comics. They're the best ever, right now. To be honest they're so good that any nostalgia I might have had for the 90s stuff has kind of left me, I have no interests there anymore. The PAD run has not aged well.

All that said, I'm interested to see what we get. Mamoa is cool- he'll do something interesting here I'm sure.

[Agent Z]

I'm fine with Jason Mamoa, I just wish the character was closer to Arthur Curry. I'd love to see Mamoa play Aquaman that isn't a cliche "warrior king". He's a good actor, he could easily pull it off.

It's ironic that they're pulling so heavily from the 90s Aquaman run, since between Geoff Johns, Jeff Parker, and Dan Abnett- we've been in a new Golden Age for Aquaman comics. They're the best ever, right now. To be honest they're so good that any nostalgia I might have had for the 90s stuff has kind of left me, I have no interests there anymore. The PAD run has not aged well.

All that said, I'm interested to see what we get. Mamoa is cool- he'll do something interesting here I'm sure.

The 90s run is the only treason anyone cared about Aquaman after Superfriends ruined him. That's reason enough to pull from it.

[Aahz]

He may look near white however but He can't pass for white.
When i first saw him in the stargate spin off i said to myself this guy is not white.
I think the dreadlocks he had on the show reinforce that for me however.
Even in the conan reboot film he did not look white to me.
Anyway if someone thinks someone could pass for white for example you might as well called that person white since race is what you look like phenotype wise.

He is imo one of these cases where you suspect that he is mixed but aren't complety sure.
At least the Conan he played was supposed to be white, every one else on his tribe was played by white actors including the younger version of him self.

[TimberWolf]

I'm a gay man who has dated women in the past. I'm from the deep South where being gay is still not generally accepted as 'normal' therefore, I hid my sexuality and tried to not give into it. Not everyone has the ability to come out until much later in life. I didn't come out until I was 30 and I've known people who came out much later in life so, when people get all up in arms because a character is retconned to be LGBT, it really makes me angry.

[Johnny]

I'm a gay man who has dated women in the past. I'm from the deep South where being gay is still not generally accepted as 'normal' therefore, I hid my sexuality and tried to not give into it. Not everyone has the ability to come out until much later in life. I didn't come out until I was 30 and I've known people who came out much later in life so, when people get all up in arms because a character is retconned to be LGBT, it really makes me angry.

People are just attached to these characters. Plus, it just depends on which character is retconned. If it's someone like Bruce Wayne or Hal Jordan or Tony Stark or Gambit, or anyone who's well known to be a womanizer, then sure people would get all up in arms about it. It changes an important aspect of their characterization, but as mentioned before, if it's someone like Alan Scott then sure, make him a younger gay man as The New 52 did or just have him come out later in life. In this instance I think Arrow did perfectly with Mr. Terrific, because they both based their version on Michael Holt while at the same time creating an original character who was a gay man named Curtis Holt, so they didn't have to erase Michael's tragic backstory with losing his wife and unborn child, since Curtis was loosely based on him, though that backstory could've probably worked for Curtis too.

[Adekis]

Aquamoa is certainly a bigger, louder personality than Orin is usually depicted....but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think to overcome the public's preconceived notions of who and what Aquaman is, Aquamoa has to be a little louder.

The most obvious adaptation of Aquaman in non-comic media, at least to me, is the one from "The Brave and the Bold", so I think of Aquaman as a boisterous character anyway. It makes perfect sense to take that "outrageous" character and make him a little rougher around the edges, and then shazam! You've got Jason Momoa. It's honestly never occurred to me to think it's a problem that he's not white and blonde, but whatever.

But what do I know, I've wanted them to make Superman bisexual for years, and I know that idea has enemies.